Page 4 of 4 [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

03 Sep 2010, 5:18 pm

AngelRho wrote:

There are too many problems with the text of Genesis as a literal reading to make it so inflexible. We can SAY with certainty that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days and rested on the seventh.


The devil you say! We have no empirical evidence that God exists. No such thing can be said with certainty. The is no logical necessity for God to exist and there is no empirical evidence to support the proposition that God exists. Maybe he exists, maybe not but we cannot say which with certainty.

ruveyn



greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,915
Location: Home

03 Sep 2010, 5:27 pm

AngelRho wrote:
There are too many problems with the text of Genesis as a literal reading to make it so inflexible.

There are too many problems with the text of Genesis as a literal reading to take it seriously.

Quote:
If I want to understand it better, what would you suggest I do?

Faith?

Even some christians suggest to take the Bible into cultural and historical context (the time it was written and the level of knowledge and comprehension the writers had to be able to explain things with satisfying accuracy) even inside the belief that the Bible was divinely inspired.

Anyway, I agree with ruveyn, historical and factual references in fictional works don't make them factual, archeological findings don't actually support "truth claims" as claimed, so faith plays a major role here than evidence.


_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?


AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,840
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

03 Sep 2010, 7:55 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AngelRho wrote:

There are too many problems with the text of Genesis as a literal reading to make it so inflexible. We can SAY with certainty that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days and rested on the seventh.


The devil you say! We have no empirical evidence that God exists. No such thing can be said with certainty. The is no logical necessity for God to exist and there is no empirical evidence to support the proposition that God exists. Maybe he exists, maybe not but we cannot say which with certainty.

ruveyn


OK...

But what about everything else? If I desire my understanding of the Hebrew Bible to be closer to what was actually meant/intended, and if such understanding is dependent upon the oral tradition, what would you suggest be the best place for me to start?



greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,915
Location: Home

03 Sep 2010, 8:13 pm

AngelRho wrote:
OK...

But what about everything else? If I desire my understanding of the Hebrew Bible to be closer to what was actually meant/intended, and if such understanding is dependent upon the oral tradition, what would you suggest be the best place for me to start?

Build a time machine and visit whoever wrote the Torah and other biblical times if you wish, be warned, you may be dissapointed, you might end up with a great deal of crisis of faith after your trip.


_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?


AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,840
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

03 Sep 2010, 9:46 pm

greenblue wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
OK...

But what about everything else? If I desire my understanding of the Hebrew Bible to be closer to what was actually meant/intended, and if such understanding is dependent upon the oral tradition, what would you suggest be the best place for me to start?

Build a time machine and visit whoever wrote the Torah and other biblical times if you wish, be warned, you may be dissapointed, you might end up with a great deal of crisis of faith after your trip.


And what religious/cultural tradition are you a part of? Ruveyn seems to have quite a vast knowledge of his faith in practice, whether he believes that those customs are based on real things or myth. Though I am not a pagan, nor have I ever practiced the faith of an ancient Greek cult revival, I HAVE participated in a symbolic ritual patterned upon a Greek myth. Secret Greek rituals were centered around the participant partaking in the walk of the Greek hero in which they learned powerful lessons about life's purpose according to one esoteric cult or another. These were "coming-of-age" initiation rituals. What I took part in was not a religious observance or any kind of mystic trial, but it did reinforce a common bond I had with the other participants. Little things like that have had a profound effect on my life--especially as a person who has often struggled with acceptance by peers. My actual faith in Christ and reverence for God goes back to my early childhood, so actually being certain of my destiny and making a public profession of such was not a difficult thing for me.

Oddly enough, when it seems no one really cares about something for which I am passionate, I always tend to see a number of people following my example, as though they're waiting to see what I do as though I have some special gift or insight. I have no such thing, but it is no less a touching experience when I see it. Music is another thing I'm DEEPLY passionate about, so much to the point that music ALMOST equals religion. I've taken the lead in performing with my wife as a handbell duo, something people in my immediate community are fascinated with but afraid to try themselves. But ever since it became evident my wife and I were up to something, all of a sudden other potential ringers have expressed interest. We'll see.

It's not my GOAL to develop a following. If you like what I have to say, so be it. If you disagree, so be it as well. But something that fascinates me is the bond among Jews, whether they are believers or worshippers of YHWH or not, that centers around these cultural and (semi)religious aspects. If something benefits one person or a group of people so much, what is so wrong with having a desire for it? The Bible indicates REPEATEDLY that Israel is chosen above every nation. What makes them so special that God would elevate them above all others? What do they have to offer? Ruveyn himself once said that the Law (Torah) was written by the Jews for the Jews. OK. It wasn't written for me. But that doesn't explain how it is someone who was not born a Jew can love all of the writings so much. I'm not seeking to understand why I'm so fascinated with it--I already have a good idea about that. What I'm asking is if reading the Tanakh on it's own is not sufficient to understanding what it really is and what it really means, then what ought I to do? I mean this with all sincerity, and it should be obvious to anyone here that religion is not something I joke about. I would think that someone like ruveyn who KNOWS all the writings have to offer wouldn't necessarily be UNwilling to share anything deeper about the Biblical message. Ruveyn KNOWS this stuff, of that I'm certain. There are many people out there who call themselves Christian but don't ACTUALLY know God, yet they seem to know Christianity VERY well. Though they may not be the most sincere Christians, they nonetheless have much to offer those seeking a walk of Christian faith. Though ruveyn doesn't believe there is a God, though ruveyn regards it all as the stuff of fictional myth and legend, there is no harm, as I see it, in sharing what he knows. I would think that such seeking is an admirable trait in a person and respectable. And if someone is seeking something that is good, what harm is there in sharing what one knows?