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katzefrau
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16 Jun 2010, 8:37 am

i'm hoping to go to a woman out of state for diagnosis because she specializes in women and girls with Asperger's. but i may not be able to afford it (or afford to wait) and so in investigating local alternatives i wrote to a specialist who my therapist referred me to, and asked him whether he had seen a lot of adult women for diagnosis.

Quote:
In terms of diagnosing and treating women with ASD, those of us who have been in the field very rarely come in contact with adult women with an ASD diagnosis.

This is a product of males with ASD out numbering females by 15 to 1 ( not 5 to 1) as well as females being largely ignored by diagnosticians, especially during the school years.


he is correct that girls are underdiagnosed, but let me repeat that:

Quote:
This is a product of males with ASD out numbering females by 15 to 1


his head is in the sand, right?

i was wondering if anyone knew how to compile statistics on WP users based on gender and diagnostic classification.

whatever his reason, i find it alarming that someone who specializes in ASDs would persist in thinking so few women are on the spectrum. i would like to set him straight.


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MotherKnowsBest
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16 Jun 2010, 8:53 am

Absolutely. Here is the abstract of proper scientific research carried out on the occurance of Asperger's in Göteborg, Sweden:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8294522

Basically, they screened all school age children in one of the boroughs. The male to female ratio for diagnosed cases was 4:1. They then identified all suspected cases of Asperger's and the male to female ratio dropped to 2.3:1.



monkeybutt
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16 Jun 2010, 9:04 am

From what I understand, women get diagnosed less often because we usually manage to imitate others around us better and fit in more, so we get missed. Also women tend to be more empathetic than men (just from physiology) and therefore that particular Aspie trait (of being non-sympathetic or non-understanding) is also less pronounced.

Leading theory is that there are just as many of us out there as there are men, just that we get missed :)


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Tales
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16 Jun 2010, 10:08 am

The ratio is 1:1... as what we believe

Psychologists are using the criteria for diagnosing Autism in boys on girls.. Which is absurd!!



Tim_Tex
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16 Jun 2010, 10:24 am

monkeybutt wrote:
From what I understand, women get diagnosed less often because we usually manage to imitate others around us better and fit in more, so we get missed. Also women tend to be more empathetic than men (just from physiology) and therefore that particular Aspie trait (of being non-sympathetic or non-understanding) is also less pronounced.

Leading theory is that there are just as many of us out there as there are men, just that we get missed :)


Seconded!


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visagrunt
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16 Jun 2010, 11:20 am

Tales wrote:
The ratio is 1:1... as what we believe

Psychologists are using the criteria for diagnosing Autism in boys on girls.. Which is absurd!!


I'm not yet prepared to agree, for a couple of reasons:

1) Given that ASDs appear to have a significant genetic origin, and given that there appears to be a large number of genes involved, it is not outside the realms of possibility that their manifestation is affected by markers on the sex chromosomes. Consider a basic example like haemophilia. The genetic marker is located on the X chromosome, but the condition usually triggers only with the presence of a Y chromosome (female haemophiliacs are very rare, involving two marked X chromosomes). Clearly ASDs are significantly more complicated that simple X-marker genetic traits, but that does not mean that they might not share some characteristics.

2) Sex hormones may have a significant impact on the presentation of symptoms. It is trite to recognize that boys and girls socialize differently, and that these difference are, in part, rooted in their different endocrine systems. Testosterone provokes certain behavioural responses, and boys have a lot more of it than girls.

3) Perhaps most importantly, like any psychological disorder, ASDs are not simply a checklist in the DSM-IV. The presentation of symptoms must be clinically significant--in other words, your Aspie traits must have an impact on your daily living. Because the socializations of men and women are different, the impact of Aspie traits on men and women are different.

Even if you are right that there are just as many women as men with Autistic neurophysiology, it does not mean that as many women as men have daily living impacts that merit diagnosis of an ASD.


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MotherKnowsBest
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16 Jun 2010, 11:25 am

Tales wrote:
The ratio is 1:1... as what we believe

Psychologists are using the criteria for diagnosing Autism in boys on girls.. Which is absurd!!


Not always. The criteria and assessment process is very different for girls here in Västra Gotland. Which is probably the reason why my daughter was diagnosed at 15, 6 months after moving here.



j0sh
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16 Jun 2010, 11:42 am

Tales wrote:
Psychologists are using the criteria for diagnosing Autism in boys on girls.. Which is absurd!!


What criteria should they be using?



Asp-Z
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16 Jun 2010, 12:27 pm

Tales wrote:
The ratio is 1:1... as what we believe

Psychologists are using the criteria for diagnosing Autism in boys on girls.. Which is absurd!!


I wish this was correct, but I'm afraid I have to agree with visagrunt.



Amajanshi
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16 Jun 2010, 12:54 pm

I thought the Male : Female ratio was something more like 4:1 or 3:1 .

Apparently there seems to be an underdiagnosis of females with AS (mistaken for shyness and "cute" social awkwardness etc), so perhaps the actual ratio could be something like 2.5 : 1 or 2 : 1.



katzefrau
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16 Jun 2010, 11:13 pm

monkeybutt wrote:
From what I understand, women get diagnosed less often because we usually manage to imitate others around us better and fit in more, so we get missed.


we also might be more outwardly composed or less likely to act out, internalizing our pain more. it is suspected that a lot of girls with eating disorders have an undiagnosed ASD.

i am convinced also that everything women do is by default interpreted as an emotional response.

see:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt127732.html

(parent complaining that her autistic girl's behavior is perceived at school as "attention-seeking" even though she is diagnosed)

also, i will repeat my post on another thread:

Quote:
when i was 5 i had some kind of freeze up (or partial seizure, i still am not sure what it was). my head snapped to the side and stuck there, i was unable to move a lot of my body or speak. i had a dislocated shoulder, and my parents (concerned about child abuse allegations) had argued before consenting to take me to the emergency room, so clearly it was a stress response.

why didn't anyone take me to a neurologist? (or show any concern at all?) it was interpreted as a deliberately manipulative act. my parents insisted i was angry and refusing to look at them or speak to them. we were in the emergency room when i became "unstuck" but even the EMTs paid the event no mind.


MotherKnowsBest, thank you for the link to the Swedish study.

and Visagrunt had some interesting thoughts. this is not an easy issue to sort out.

i think there may be no way of knowing what the real ratio is. i am confident, however, it's much closer to 2:1 or 3:1 than 15:1. it could be argued that women may be more inclined to post on discussion boards, but i would still like to see WP member statistics, if anyone knows how to compile them.

and just as there are different ways traits can present themselves, there are many different ways impairment can present itself.

but - if someone is an ASD specialist, they should not have to be told by their clients to do this sort of investigative research.


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MrXxx
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17 Jun 2010, 12:04 am

monkeybutt wrote:
From what I understand, women get diagnosed less often because we usually manage to imitate others around us better and fit in more, so we get missed. Also women tend to be more empathetic than men (just from physiology) and therefore that particular Aspie trait (of being non-sympathetic or non-understanding) is also less pronounced.

Leading theory is that there are just as many of us out there as there are men, just that we get missed :)


Translation of bolded text: Aspie men are just better at being pricks than Aspie women. :lol:

(My translation, not my interpretation of what you were saying)



I think there's something to that. In fact I've seen a lot of discussions regarding the possibility that at least some Aspie women may display a tendency to be somewhat "hyper" empathic, which may mask it.


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katzefrau
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17 Jun 2010, 12:09 am

MrXxx wrote:
Translation of bolded text: Aspie men are just better at being pricks than Aspie women. :lol:.


don't worry: i'm very good at it.

:roll:


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MrXxx
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17 Jun 2010, 12:12 am

katzefrau wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
Translation of bolded text: Aspie men are just better at being pricks than Aspie women. :lol:.


don't worry: i'm very good at it.

:roll:


Thanks for the warning! 8O


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I meant in general, of course. I usually don't like generalizations, but I think in this case, it's probably true. :tongue:


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katzefrau
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17 Jun 2010, 12:19 am

MrXxx wrote:
I usually don't like generalizations, but I think in this case, it's probably true. :tongue:


i don't like generalizations either .. when other people make them. but i'm allowed to. :scratch:

hypocrite city.


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MrXxx
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17 Jun 2010, 12:33 am

katzefrau wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
I usually don't like generalizations, but I think in this case, it's probably true. :tongue:


i don't like generalizations either .. when other people make them. but i'm allowed to. :scratch:

hypocrite city.


It's not hypocrisy if you're right and they're wrong. :lol: And isn't that always the case? :P


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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...