Much older man

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Well, I think she does care for him, but for whatever reason, she doesn't want to marry him. She won't even tell her children about him, even though she told them 5 years ago that she was going to divorce their father (but still hasn't filed). I figure it's up to him. He's not in the kind of relationship he wants, and it doesn't look like he ever will be, with her. If he were to decide that it's not worth it to him to stay, given that he's now met someone who not only appreciates HIM but also wants to share his lifestyle, what can she say? She cares for him but she doesn't want the whole package. To hell with that.

JMHO

Wait, what??

Just how is that single?

I'm not going to lie, this is a potential minefield. You're grown up, though, it's your and his call.

He's single; he's not married, and his girlfriend doesn't want to marry him. That's her choice. I mean, if a guy proposes to his girlfriend, and she says no, what else is there to say after that? Even if she says "maybe", but she keeps saying "maybe" for 5 years and meanwhile makes absolutely no movement toward the possibility of saying "yes" (like filing for divorce), that's seriously messed up. How demoralizing would it be for him to stay in that relationship after that? I mean, from my perspective, that's almost like an ultimatum, "are we going forward or aren't we?" She says no, we're not going forward, and from what I've seen, she's not going to change her mind, she wants to stay in this state of limbo that is very unsatisfying to him.

I mean, it's not just that she won't marry him, she won't even divorce her husband. Oh, I didn't mention this part -- in the 5 years since she "separated" from her husband, neither one of them ever actually moved out. He was sleeping in the apartment I'm in now, over the garage, for a while, but got tired of it and moved back into the house. Yeah, in separate bedrooms, but damn, how do you think the boyfriend feels? Especially since she is not open about her relationship with him? She goes to the beach with him and his family, and tells her husband "I'm going to the beach with some friends." What??? No. She is leaving him free by declining to claim him as her own. He just needs to claim his own freedom and she has forfeited her right to complain. Not that she won't, and not that she won't blame me (if it were to come to pass the way I fantasize it coming to pass, i.e. he leaves her and gets together with me). But she has forfeited any claim on him.

If you do this you're going to have to realise his family is going to call you a gold digger.
I don't think you should expect or even hope to inherit the farm, not without a lawsuit being slapped in your face.

You don't sound like a very nice person. You're interested in a man who is already in a relationship, and you smile at the idea of inheriting something you have no right to inherit.

Yeah, I know. You can imagine how many times I myself have gone over in my mind what exactly is it that makes me fantasize about marrying him ... him or his lifestyle? But it's all wrapped up....

I've broken it down into 3 levels of attraction: 1), the inmost level is, what does he do to my pulse rate? Does he make my heart beat faster? 2), what do I think of him objectively? Do I respect & admire him? Is he a good man? (honorable, honest, open-minded, steady & stable, gentle and caring, etc.). 3), what would the circumstances of my life with him be, i.e., would our lifestyles or lifestyle goals mesh? which is the farm, but in this also goes, am I ambitious to make something of myself in this world? (no, I'm exhausted with trying to make it independently in this world), or would I be happy staying home with a retired husband, and mostly dependent on him (yes; I do have a part-time job, with benefits, to cover any incremental expenses, so I shouldn't be a financial burden on him). I can check off all 3 of these, albeit on pretty short acquaintance. My landlady I think checks off 1 & 2, but #3 just doesn't mesh for her, whereas it's a major part of what makes me want this guy. I mean, seriously, the first time I drove down into his driveway, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. And you know what? I told him once "I'd give my right arm to have your farm", and he seemed to like it -- I guess since that's what my landlady rejects, having someone appreciate and admire it and want it is the thing he's been missing. After all, it's not like he was born on this farm. He chose it, and he has shaped it over the last 30 years into what it is. It's not like admiring his car or his income, you know?

I have a pension coming to me from my old life as a bureaucrat. It will kick in in 12 years, when I turn 55. He'd be 90 by then; God willing still alive & kicking. In the meantime, now is now, then is then. This is where trusting in God comes into my life. I don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow is unknowable, it's in His hands. For all I know his kids would be thrilled to have this woman out of his life, and see him with someone who doesn't bring all that previous-marriage drama (or CURRENT marriage drama) along. But then again, they might totally reject me. Whatever. "What if"s are outside the equation.

What I want to know is, does he like to sleep cuddled up together or not?

You know, I didn't even read your second line the first time. Like I said, I have no idea if the farm is paid off or underwater. Maybe he dies and it has to be sold to pay off all his debts. That's not the point. He lives there, and I could live there with him if he wanted to marry me. For now, who knows what happens later? Look, I've only recently been in a relationship with a married man -- he hasn't had sex with his wife for some 30-odd years, they can't stand each other, his kids just assume he has "another wife", but nonetheless he kept me a secret and he doesn't divorce her, either. Just like my landlady with her marriage. We've had a nice relationship for the past 5 years, he used to come home from work TO ME every day (not to his own house) but it's fallen apart since I moved a half-hour farther away. I didn't take him away from her, either. When I met him he used to lie in bed in the morning until he heard her go out, and stay out until he thought she would have gone to bed at night. There was nothing between them for decades before I met him. So this new guy and I have that married-though-not-living-like-man-and-wife lover thing, that being-treated-like-a-dirty-secret-for-no-damn-reason thing, in common. He's the one who first started commiserating with me about his situation. We both want someone to love, but we've both been settling for less. And the thing is, I wouldn't want to marry my ex-boyfriend, as much as I cared for him. He doesn't pass test #2 in my post above. He's got a lot of wonderful qualities, he wouldn't intentionally hurt anyone, but he's unstable, alcoholic, incapable of facing conflict, etc., etc., etc. I guess I never thought I could have the complete relationship either ... I still don't know, but I don't think I'm a bad person for holding out hope for a relationship with this older man.

I would be appalled if my parents deprived themselves of anything in order to leave me & siblings an inheritance, and I would be appalled if this man deprived his kids of anything in order to leave me an inheritance. I love the farm, it's the kind of place I've dreamed of living, so sure I smile at the thought of inheriting it. But it sounds like YOU think I'm a gold-digger, and you're wrong.

Jerk.

Sorry I don't get what you mean in the above post. Are you talking about being in a previous relationship with a married man? Not the Older guy?

I'm not saying you are a gold digger, i'm trying to look at it from the kids point of view. If something happened to my mother, and some (much younger) woman started dating my father probably 10 years or so before most people die, I would be slamming her with a law suit if she got all the family's stuff.

You might love him guenuinely, but THEY don't know that.

Previous, just-ending relationship with a married man. Very much like the Older Guy's relationship with his married woman. Both estranged from their spouses long before we met, but neither willing to actually get divorced and move on.

So you're saying that this:

is what the kids might think? Sorry, I don't read it that way. I read it as coming from you to me, and I think it's unwarranted. If you did not mean it personally, from you to me, I would like to know that, because it's actually pretty much pissed me off.

Noo.. he's not single. He has a long term girlfriend. The technicalities of their relationship are quite frankly nothing to do with you.

And I'm sorry, the fact that one of your reasons for marrying him is that you 'appreciate' his comfortable lifestyle... that is gold digging, plain and simple.

Thank you for sharing (that's a euphemism, in case you're wondering)

is the word you're looking for 'sarcasm' by any chance?

You're welcome. One of the benefits of posting on internet forums is that people share their opinions.

Look, I don't know which part of this you don't understand. He has offered a commitment, she has turned it down. Hence, there is no commitment. Hence, he is single. He may not have decided what to do next, but that definitely doesn't mean she has any claim on him.

And no, sarcasm wasn't the word I was looking for. It was a word to replace "thank" in my previous post to you.

I'm sorry if it pissed you off, after all its your life and you choose to do with it what you will. That could be the kids opinion or mine, but tbh I still think having affairs with married/taken men is absolutely horrible no matter how it's justified. In my opinion, a nice person would not do that, but thats in my opinion. Maybe i think that because it's something I never do, but I shouldn't apply it to others.

He is not single unless they have broken up. A turned down engagement is nothing, they could easily just go back to a committed relationship.

What are her reasons for not marrying him?

Plus which, some of you seem to have the impression that this guy is rich. He is most definitely NOT. Like most people, he lost most of his retirement savings in the crash. From what I gather, his income does not approach what mine was before I left my job 3 years ago -- and I left my job because there are things more important to me than money.

But you don't marry a 78-year-old with a world of possibilities in front of you. His lifestyle now is pretty much what I can expect it to be from now on. I'd better like it, or just let go of any idea of being with him. I mean, would it somehow be more honorable if I said "gee, it's a shame he lives in such a beautiful rural place, I would SO much rather stay on this little 4-acre weedlot with the neighbors who won't even tolerate a rooster, much less dairy goats". Give it a rest, people. I love his home, but honestly that's not my focus. I'm into the MAN himself. I don't sit around fantasizing about his farm, at least not nearly as much as I sit around fantasizing about HIM.

Well, is she or is she not his current girlfriend? That implies that they are still currently going out, unless he has told you very clearly otherwise. How recently did he propose?



ok... but I still don't see how that makes thank a euphemism. The word means 'pleasant speech', as in a nice description of something nasty. The word Gold-digger itself was originally an ephemism for women who pursue men for their money.

Don't get me wrong, I have a pretty good idea of the kind of words you would liked to have put down, but that doesn't make 'thank' a euphemism for them. Just a replacement.

I'm not having nor contemplating having an affair with him. I am contemplating marrying him.

I'm not sure what her reasons are, but it seems to have to do with that #3, i.e. she doesn't like his farm, she doesn't like his house, and she doesn't like his quiet lifestyle. Plus whatever unknown internal drama is going on regarding her marriage, I don't know. Even her church leaders have counselled her to go on and get divorced and get out of this limbo -- and she's a Mormon, they don't do divorce lightly. And she still doesn't do it. I don't even know these people that well yet, I just have a crush on the old man and I'm dumbfounded that she would let him get away. But to each her own.