Temple Grandin

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Dan_Undiagnosed
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07 Jan 2013, 2:43 am

Bethie wrote:

DandelionFireworks wrote:

What do you think of Temple Grandin?

(Unless you're just going to troll. We especially don't need people trolling a discussion of a person.)

Something about her seems almost curebie to me. I can't say what, but she seems like... I don't know. I know she can't be curebie, but she seems that way to me. Or something.

I don't know where this topic fits, so here it goes, seeing as how she's written books that impact how we're viewed.

She's the bi'tch who analyzes the behavior of terrified animals in order to advise corporations on how to most efficiently slaughter them?

FU'CK HER.

If she didn't step in and do something to the point where around half of all animal processing plants in north America are her designs then the meat industry would be a huge boy's club still (even more than it probably is now) where animals are routinely tortured. Whatever you might think about animals going to their deaths for people to eat I promise you Grandin's innovations mean they go with quantitatively and qualitatively less suffering. She also still fights to have permanent cameras installed in meat plants because she got sick of going back to check places she'd been before and seeing animal injuries go back up and also the use of stun prods. Don't blame her for every second person eating meat, that makes zero sense. People are going to eat meat regardless of what Grandin does. She makes sure the inevitable process of slaughter is as suffering free as possible.
Grandin also opposes and fights the selling of horses for pet food as the sector is rife with abuse and horrible neglect.

Dan_Undiagnosed
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07 Jan 2013, 2:50 am

DandelionFireworks wrote:

Something about her seems almost curebie to me.

I have to say I've watched a lot of her talks and I really didn't get that reading. I think she's old fashioned like she doesn't want spectrum kids enabled to lock themselves in a dark room playing video games all day. She says she might have remained non verbal if her mother hadn't worked with her everyday intensely and so for her I think early intervention makes sense because it worked for her. But she sounds very proud of autism when she points out how many people there are on the spectrum in Silicon Valley and what would happen to civilisation if autism disappeared. She has even hinted that if it wasn't for autistic traits humans might still be living in the wild as just another animal. As she puts it 'Who do you think invented the first flint spear? It certainly wasn't the social butterfly'.

cyberdad
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08 Jan 2013, 1:36 am

Bethie wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Bethie wrote:

She's the bi'tch who analyzes the behavior of terrified animals in order to advise corporations on how to most efficiently slaughter them?

Nope. She is the woman who figures out what is scaring them and works to resolve those problems irregardless of slaughterhouse efficiency.

She's actually a consultant to the livestock industry.

There's nothing to "figure out" about their fear anymore than the terror of Jews in Auschwitz

She's a disgusting individual.

Hmmm I can see where you are coming from, but I think Temple's perspective is that she has designed equipment that has made transferring cattle to slaughterhouses less cruel. I may be wrong but I think she avoids eating meat. It's an interesting debate and I would be interested to hear Temple's views on the morality of killing animals for meat.

How is she any more disgusting than the 90% of Americans who eat steak?

Verdandi
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08 Jan 2013, 5:35 am

My understanding is that she tried vegetarianism but didn't like the experience and eats meat because she feels better physically.

I had a similar experience.

I look forward to further developments involving various vat grown and stem cell grown "cruelty free" meat.

nostromo
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08 Jan 2013, 9:56 pm

androbot2084 wrote:

Killing an animal is murder.

Does that mean tigers are murderers?

Nathan1988
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08 Jan 2013, 11:25 pm

I have met her and heard her speak. She is very knowledgeable but her opinions like every-ones can be flawed. She does not however advocate curing autism in anyway. in fact her opinions are quite the opposite. She believes that Autism (especially Aspergers) is what makes up most of our tech and science industry and people with Autism have characteristics crucial to advancement in these areas. As for her personality she can be flat and seem a bit cold at times but this is common for many of us on the spectrum.

cyberdad
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09 Jan 2013, 12:35 am

Verdandi wrote:

Seems to be conflicting reports. According to Temple herself she avoided meat growing up and lived almsot exlusively on custard/jello and yogurt. But that was her description of her childhood years.

Verdandi
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09 Jan 2013, 2:06 am

I got my statement from this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5165123

Quote:

FLATOW: Mm hmm, mm hmm. I think a lot of people are surprised when they hear you speak and read your writings about your knowledge about how animals think, your sensitivity to their feelings, to learn that you're not a vegetarian.

Dr. GRANDIN: No, I played around with vegetarianism back in the ‘70s. One thing, my physiology just got to have animal protein. I get hypoglycemic, I get all light-headed unless I eat animal protein.

cyberdad
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09 Jan 2013, 2:14 am

Verdandi wrote:

I got my statement from this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5165123

Quote:

Thanks for the link. According to the Claire Danes movie "Temple Grandin" Temple apparently lived on yogurt and jello as a child. The movie gives the impression Temple was eating yogurt and jello as late as her 20s.

Verdandi
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09 Jan 2013, 3:25 am

Yogurt and jello are not precisely vegetarian products. Jello is made from gelatin, which is boiled from bones, connective tissues, and intestines. Yogurt is, of course, a form of milk.

However, I think the movie rearranges some things and fictionalizes some things for convenience.

zeroed
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09 Jan 2013, 8:03 pm

"ATTACKED BY ANIMAL RIGHTS ABOLITIONISTS
I am a reformer who wants to improve the livestock industry. I disagree with the advocates who want to abolish the use of animals for food. Since the publication of Animals in Translation,22 I have received some hateful attacks from individuals who believe that killing animals for food is the same as killing people in Nazi Germany. They have called me an evil Nazi, sent hate mail, and made Web postings that were so nasty and vulgar that they cannot be repeated here. One person said he wanted to apply an electric cattle prod to my anatomy describing it in the filthiest language imaginable. These extreme individuals who advocate for animals advocated in their e-mails and Web postings things they wanted to do to me that were very cruel - things that they would never do to any animal. I have thought long, hard, and carefully on how to respond to people who think I am a Nazi. In the next section, I provide my response, in which I have used information from my knowledge of animal behavior, neuroscience, biology, farm animal welfare research, sustainable agriculture, and travel to twenty-six countries on five continents."
http://www.grandin.com/welfare/avoid.ab ... elfare.pdf

Animals Are Not Things
A View on Animal Welfare Based on Neurological Complexity
http://www.grandin.com/welfare/animals. ... hings.html

please try not to hate her, try to understand what it is like to see hundreds of animals slaughtered and the only thing that can be done is make the process less horrible and agonizing
all animals die, we need to control the suffering during the inevitable

it is laudable to plan and encourage change and improvement, yet there are animals being slaughtered today- who is there for them to protect them from callousness of some workers in plants? threats on the net and holding signs won't do it, becoming an employee that has to assist is one way, sseing it and making sure it is done right is making their pain into ours, for sure

Dan_Undiagnosed
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09 Jan 2013, 10:13 pm

zeroed wrote:

That was interesting. It shows what I touched on, how Grandin wants to stop people who do eat meat from getting meat from cruel and unethical sources. She genuinely cares about animals and if she didn't she wouldn't be so active in helping meat plants update their methods and designs. What strikes me as being hilarious is how animal rights extremists make threats of horrific physical violence against people who actually help animals. The Penn & Teller 'BS' episode on PETA was interesting. I thought it was childish and gross of them to stuff their faces with ribs wearing full leather outfits but some of the hypocrisies they highlighted in PETA were pretty funny. Like that vice president who wouldn't even be alive today if dogs weren't experimented on to get insulin for diabetics :roll:

For myself I still eat something if it has meat in it but I tried a veg diet with my girlfriend for a couple of weeks and I couldn't believe how much 'lighter' and energetic I felt. The few meals I've eaten since then with meat in it made me feel like I had a bowling ball in my stomach after. So eventually I think I'll go completely vegetarian just to feel better but if someone tries vegetarianism and it makes them feel worse I don't think I have the right to stop them from eating meat but I should try to make sure the meat is ethical and cruelty free.

cyberdad
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09 Jan 2013, 11:58 pm

Verdandi wrote:

Yogurt and jello are not precisely vegetarian products. Jello is made from gelatin, which is boiled from bones, connective tissues, and intestines. Yogurt is, of course, a form of milk.However, I think the movie rearranges some things and fictionalizes some things for convenience.

Sorry, I was talking about Temple avoiding "meat" rather than necessarily "meat byproducts" such as gelatine. According to the movie, Temple had an aversion to meat and bread etc that was related to food preferences (phobias?) rather than any specific ethical or moral standpoint on meat per say. I would be quite surprised that the movie would fictionalise that aspect of her life? perhaps in scripting the movie they saw an opportunity to beatify Temple as a Mother Theresa type figure in relation to why she was motivated to help animals?

I was curious as to how she views eating meat in her adult years. I do hope she did not acquiesce to writers polishing her image as some type of animal crusader. I watched Claire Danes interview and Temple was certainly pitched as a feminist heroine in a pitch battle with the male dominated cattle industry. I think it's equally likely Temple's obsession with cattle growing up on a farm may have developed into an obsession that (perhaps) had nothing to do with either issues of animal welfare or womens rights.

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09 Feb 2013, 1:33 am

I like Temple Grandin and what she has to say. I do not believe she is a 'curebie' and have also read about her promotion of early intervention for young children similar to that which she received from her mother (obviously unheard of when she was younger).

She has been the ONLY person able to communicate and illustrate this Aspergers / Autism world to my husband. I am indebted to her.
Her self-titled movie was helpful for him as well. The actress Clare Danes was chosen by her to play her part in that movie.

Dr. Grandin has my support.

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You are very likely an Aspie
AQ: 47

Verdandi
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09 Feb 2013, 9:06 pm

cyberdad wrote:

I'll take what Temple says over what the movie says. It's a good movie, but they did fictionalize and summarize events in her life to tighten the narrative.

Quote:

I was curious as to how she views eating meat in her adult years. I do hope she did not acquiesce to writers polishing her image as some type of animal crusader. I watched Claire Danes interview and Temple was certainly pitched as a feminist heroine in a pitch battle with the male dominated cattle industry. I think it's equally likely Temple's obsession with cattle growing up on a farm may have developed into an obsession that (perhaps) had nothing to do with either issues of animal welfare or womens rights.

Temple's work in the cattle industry is relevant to women's rights. She said that the incident where the men covered her vehicle with cattle testicles really did happen, and she had to fight through a lot of sexist prejudice to be accepted, and that battle has probably made the cattle industry more welcoming to women in general.

I do believe that animal welfare was a part of her concern, and she has said as much on several occasions. One quote is:

Quote:

“I think using animals for food is an ethical thing to do, but we've got to do it right. We've got to give those animals a decent life and we've got to give them a painless death. We owe the animal respect.”

I don't think it helps to characterize Temple or any other autistic person as being strictly driven by their interests and no other concerns. I think such beliefs feed into rather regressive notions about what it is like to be autistic.

cyberdad
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09 Feb 2013, 10:21 pm

Verdandi wrote:

Ironic isn't it. Temple and many other people with autism (like Stephen Wiltshire) actually used their obsessions to develop strengths that helped them to be more functional.

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