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thechadmaster
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17 Jul 2010, 6:39 pm

**SOAPBOX ALERT**

I support the movement to keep Aspergers as an individual diagnosis in the DSM-V. By merging AS with autism, it would do great damage to the small amount of Aspergers awareness we have worked our A$$es off for in the past 15 years. Autism has many negative connotations which are not exactly unwarranted, but to be lumped into such a broad group will set us back 20 years.

If you present yourself for employment and believe in disclosure, stating you have autism will automatically generate one of two responses: "No way youre autistic, you can speak, and at least make some semblance of eye contact" or the hiring manager will can your application thinking you are too LF to be hireable. Whether we admit it or not, discrimination in hiring happens all the time.

If you can present yourself as one with Aspergers, on the off chance the employer is well-versed in Aspergers related traits, he will see that with even limited accommodation, you can produce great things within your field of interest. (I could re-draw Greyhound's entire American service structure if anyone would give me a shot). Even to someone with limited knowledge of Aspergers, it is easier to show what you can offer, then with autism, given the negative stereotypes.

And another thing, as student in middle or high school, if you are very HF, but still have the "autism" label, you will likely find yourself locked out of greater opportunity, who is going to let an "autisitc" join the rifle team? I wanted to take "outdoor education (OE)" in HS for my PE credit, OE taught skills for wilderness survival, and group co-operation to overcome challenges, my eighth grade teacher refused to even let me sign up for that class saying "its not for you" I think that would have served me much better than regular PE, the weight lifting unit and team sports units only led to extreme ridicule for me from my classmates, by sophmore year, the faculty had me change in an empty broom closet, since they were unable to supervise the boys locker room (female PE teacher).

^^And my last paragraph^^ is WITH an AS diagnosis, like i said, merging with autism will likely result in HFA students being placed in "special" PE classes for the (forgive me) "mentally retarded" and physically handicapped, simply because of a name.


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anbuend
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17 Jul 2010, 7:19 pm

So in other words, you're predicting that you'll have to deal with what the rest of us (i.e. those autistic people not diagnosed as AS) have had to deal with all along, and instead of working to stop autism stereotypes, you'd rather just distance yourself from other autistic people? Meh, not my thing. Heaven forbid you should be lumped in with those of us considered just 'autistic', or (worse?) those of us considered 'LFA' (because that would just be A Bad Thing).


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Last edited by anbuend on 17 Jul 2010, 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MathGirl
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17 Jul 2010, 7:20 pm

I disagree.
I've had this debate many, many times, and am honestly just too tired to type out all of my arguments.


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thechadmaster
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17 Jul 2010, 7:28 pm

anbuend wrote:
So in other words, you're predicting that you'll have to deal with what the rest of us (i.e. those autistic people not diagnosed as AS) have had to deal with all along, and instead of working to stop autism stereotypes, you'd rather just distance yourself from other autistic people? Meh, not my thing. Heaven forbid you should be lumped in with those of us considered just 'autistic', or (worse?) those of us considered 'LFA' (because that would just be A Bad Thing).


I think autism stereotypes have been too deeply ingrained by now. It would be much more difficult to break down the autism stereotypes then the AS ones. I meant no disrespect to anyone, but if a "name" will prevent me from being hired, i DO want to distance myself from said name.


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leejosepho
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17 Jul 2010, 7:31 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
DSM-V Is taking away our identity.


Nonsense. We are whoever we are irregardless of what anybody or anything might say.

The spectrum is the spectrum and all who are on it are there together.


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buryuntime
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17 Jul 2010, 7:36 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
anbuend wrote:
So in other words, you're predicting that you'll have to deal with what the rest of us (i.e. those autistic people not diagnosed as AS) have had to deal with all along, and instead of working to stop autism stereotypes, you'd rather just distance yourself from other autistic people? Meh, not my thing. Heaven forbid you should be lumped in with those of us considered just 'autistic', or (worse?) those of us considered 'LFA' (because that would just be A Bad Thing).


I think autism stereotypes have been too deeply ingrained by now. It would be much more difficult to break down the autism stereotypes then the AS ones. I meant no disrespect to anyone, but if a "name" will prevent me from being hired, i DO want to distance myself from said name.

I hope you don't have the same opinion on racism. Should we let people have slaves (particularly of a certain race) because racism is too ingrained in us? I think all it would take is another generation to get a more positive look on autism. As is most people know someone who with it. Once all these newly diagnosed kids grow up I think things will be interesting. Having a singular autism diagnosis is going to make things less muddy.

I would like to see people with autism being hired more for jobs. Should someone who had a speech delay be left in the dust because they have an autism label instead of an Asperger's label? It's clear that the current criteria IS NOT productive or helpful to anyone.



TPE2
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17 Jul 2010, 7:40 pm

But why not to call to the all spectrum Asperger's Syndrome (instead of Autism Spectrum Disorder)?

The OP is right in one thing - in "street" language, "Autism" means LFA.



buryuntime
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17 Jul 2010, 7:43 pm

TPE2 wrote:
But why not to call to the all spectrum Asperger's Syndrome (instead of Autism Spectrum Disorder)?

The OP is right in one thing - in "street" language, "Autism" means LFA.

Yes, and in the language you are referring to Asperger's = ASS BURGERS and MADE UP and NERD.

It really is quite an unfortunate name.



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17 Jul 2010, 7:49 pm

buryuntime wrote:
I hope you don't have the same opinion on racism.


Many people think that names as black, gypsy or galla have a deep pejorative sense ingrained and, because that, it is preferable the names "afro-american"/ "african descent", "roma" or "oromo".



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17 Jul 2010, 7:55 pm

Because Asperger's has a specific meaning as a subtype of autism, but autism is not a subtype of Asperger's. Doesn't work. Asperger's means autism without speech delay or certain forms of atypical speech, autism means all autism including Asperger's. They're not reversible/symmetrical/whatever it's called, like that.

So autism means 'LFA' to some people. Very recently, autism (as well as 'Kanner's') meant 'HFA' (what is now known as 'LFA' was added onto the spectrum after the fact, but you wouldn't know it to hear some people talk). With time, autism could come to just mean autism, and LFA and HFA could both crumble into dust where they belong, it's not as if they're meaningful categories.

How will anyone change their view of autism if everyone is running away from it to avoid the horror of being categorized along with people like me or many people I know and care about? And what really is the problem with people's view of autism? Is it that "it means LFA", or is it that people have a whole lot of stereotypes about autistic people that are not true (even of people labeled as LFA)? It's sort of like... I get mistaken for 'retarded' a lot. But that's not the problem. I know and respect a lot of people who have that as their actual diagnosis. The problem is that people have such a crappy idea of what 'retarded' means. When someone calls me 'retarded', I don't run away and go "oooh oooh that's not me that's not me", I tell them something like "...and proud of it." Because that stands up to their stereotype of it as something to be ashamed of, rather than simply distancing myself from the category but not distancing those still in the category from the assumption that it's shameful.


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thechadmaster
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17 Jul 2010, 8:00 pm

TPE2 wrote:
buryuntime wrote:
I hope you don't have the same opinion on racism.


Many people think that names as black, gypsy or galla have a deep pejorative sense ingrained and, because that, it is preferable the names "afro-american"/ "african descent", "roma" or "oromo".


exactly. employers will always discriminate, legal or not, customers WILL NOT recognize "reasonable accommodations" to use your analogy this type of "racism" will never go away, i just dont want Aspies to fall into a more discriminative category, until 1994, AS wasnt recognized, it was under the autism umbrella, we have worked to disassociate AS from autism, i would just hate to see all that work end up being in vain.


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SoSayWeAll
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17 Jul 2010, 8:06 pm

anbuend--So that WAS you that made that video. Well done and well said--you really offered a lot of food for thought. :)

And I agree with those who are saying that employers need to be much better-educated as to ASDs. Now that I am more aware of what that really means--as well as already knowing people (often without my realizing it) who are on the spectrum, I am really coming to feel uncomfortable with the lack of knowledge that many people have, and the lack of appreciation for neurodiversity. Whether or not I myself am on the spectrum, I at least find it hitting too close to home given the existence of the "medicate all ADHD out of existence" crowd, which I'd already despised. The same crap ("ADHD isn't a real disorder--it's just a badly-behaved kid's excuse" or "drug them docile") exists.

As it is, if ever the need came for me to participate in such education in my own company I would be glad to. Now being kind of a half-and-half type person I realize there's a lot I don't fully understand, but I know I could always come here to get some perspective.

PS: I think you might've been looking for the word "interchangeable"? Does that sound right? BTW...if that was your video, I MUST ask about the cat! What's your cat's name and what is he/she like? :)


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anbuend
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17 Jul 2010, 8:08 pm

Interestingly, the woman who invented the label Asperger's believes it's run its course and has believed this since long before the DSM-V proposals came out. She didn't invent the label to differentiate it from autism. She invented the label to spotlight one particular experience among autistic people that in that time and place was not being recognized. But now that it is recognized, she'd prefer it go back to just being autism.

Who is this "we" that has done all this work to differentiate AS from autism?


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aspie_giraffe
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17 Jul 2010, 8:08 pm

well im already aspie giraffe so and i called my cartoon aspie giraffe so as far as im concerned im still an aspie



leejosepho
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17 Jul 2010, 8:09 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
we have worked to disassociate AS from autism, i would just hate to see all that work end up being in vain.


Either we are on the spectrum or we are not.


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thechadmaster
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17 Jul 2010, 8:22 pm

anbuend wrote:
Who is this "we" that has done all this work to differentiate AS from autism?


I think that the WP community has done great things in the past six years to raise awareness that not all "autistics" are low functioning, and even if Aspergers is under the autism umbrella, i still think it should be differentiated from LFA.

Look at the NTs that post here, they obviously have a greater knowledge of AS for having been here. Alex has given interviews for TV, Radio, and printed media, so i think that we as a community have helped advance the idea of "neurodiversity"


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