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visagrunt
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03 Aug 2010, 12:24 pm

I am not sure that scripture sets out the shape of the world. I rather think (though I stand to be corrected) that the geocentric, flat world model was an interpretation foisted upon the faithful by religious leaders.

As for the resurrection, to my mind it matters not one whit what happened on that day, if anything. Whether the resurrection is an historical event, a misrepresentation of a different historical event or a complete fiction is entirely beside the point.

The point is that the teachings of Christ, as represented in scripture, provide the faithful with a guide for their own moral and ethical behaviour in a complex world. "Do unto others..." is a pretty good guide for behaviour, whether you believe in the divinity and the historicity of Christ or not.


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sillycat
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10 Aug 2010, 7:24 pm

Here's what likely happened. The followers confronted or bribed the guards to evacuate the wounded "messiah" and they discreetly left.



Giftorcurse
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11 Aug 2010, 11:26 am

My Bible history is pretty rusty.


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Awesomelyglorious
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11 Aug 2010, 12:20 pm

visagrunt wrote:
I am not sure that scripture sets out the shape of the world. I rather think (though I stand to be corrected) that the geocentric, flat world model was an interpretation foisted upon the faithful by religious leaders.

Well, the view in scripture would have also been the view of the time. I believe for the Jews it really was a flat, geocentric world with a dome above it. I could try to find some arguments in favor of that, but I am not in the mood.

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As for the resurrection, to my mind it matters not one whit what happened on that day, if anything. Whether the resurrection is an historical event, a misrepresentation of a different historical event or a complete fiction is entirely beside the point.

Well, if there is a miracle, it shows that they can occur, and that there is an entity out there capable of doing those things.

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The point is that the teachings of Christ, as represented in scripture, provide the faithful with a guide for their own moral and ethical behaviour in a complex world. "Do unto others..." is a pretty good guide for behaviour, whether you believe in the divinity and the historicity of Christ or not.

No, they really aren't. I mean, a lot of people like the naive reading of the Bible, but frankly, the Bible itself will tell you that its moral code is not the path for a long and prosperous life, and the teachings, if implemented, would lead to the people around you thinking that you were a bit crazy. I mean, the Golden Rule isn't unique to scripture, and scripture teaches a much stricter belief than just the Golden Rule.



Edward_Palamar
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11 May 2015, 10:50 pm

Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the first Easter Sunday.

At the hour of His death, many tombs were uncovered by an earthquake.

On Sunday morning, the saints in those tombs bilocated, and were seen by many.

These did not resurrect, per se, but appeared to those who knew them when they were alive.

This was a further sign of Christ's resurrection.

The General Resurrection of the Dead is occuring now.

This Ascension Thursday, May 14, 2015 A.D., is the penultimate Ascension Thursday before the completion of the 1,335 day period of Daniel 12:12.

Ascension Thursday of 2016 A.D. will be May 5th, the 1,332 day in the count.


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naturalplastic
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12 May 2015, 7:07 am

Edward_Palamar wrote:
Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the first Easter Sunday.


The General Resurrection of the Dead is occuring now.


What does this phrase you keep repeating mean?

Are you saying that folks are rising from cemetaries right now as we speak?

Are they all looking for brains to eat?



Edward_Palamar
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12 May 2015, 4:02 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Edward_Palamar wrote:
Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the first Easter Sunday.

The General Resurrection of the Dead is occuring now.

What does this phrase you keep repeating mean?

Are you saying that folks are rising from cemetaries right now as we speak?

Are they all looking for brains to eat?

When I was resurrected, it marked the return of the Son of Man (Jesus Christ), even though I am only His angel.

I wasn't aware of being resurrected until after the fact.

While in the womb (and this for the third time, mind you, after my birth as Elijah in the first womb, and as John in the second), my mother was shot and raped within the first ten days of term with me. (this was ca. October 1, 1955 A.D.)

It is written that God would be a speedy witness against all who do iniquity.

God took the seed of my oldest brother, also named John (Jr.), who had shot and raped, and attached his sperm to the already forming fetus.

We were born conjoined twins, diametrically opposed.

When I received Holy Communion from "Gloria Olivae" for the first time ("Gloria Olivae" is one of the Pontiffs of the St. Malachy prophecy), Greg and I were miraculously separated.

I received my first Holy Communion from another priest whose date of death (January 20, but not exact year), marks the beginning of the 2,300 day cleansing foretold in Daniel 8:14.

This is also fulfillment of Daniel 8, the vision of the ram and the he-goat.

I'm the ram, king of the Romans, and Greg, as he was later named, is the he-goat, the king of the Greeks.

The prophetic book of Daniel contains more than one description of these last days and kingships.

But Greg, this 'he-goat of vision', is also Judas Iscariot, one of Jesus Christ's first chosen twelve disciples, resurrected.

Recently, I had to deposit my witness concerning this in the Court of Common Pleas in Chester County, PA.

I did so before Judge Anthony A. Sarcione, who is Pontius Pilate, resurrected.

In the interim, I met Adam, the first man, resurrected, and the prophet Mohammed, resurrected.

Jesus Christ never received a fair trial.

That is the first score to settle.

Given the response thusfar, the trial will definitely end with great violence as foretold in 2 Peter 3:10-14.

The tenet of the Church's Creed includes looking for the resurrection of the dead, and believing in the resurrection of the body.

I bear witness that this is in vitro.

All praise, glory, and honor to the coming Lord Jesus Christ, now, forever and ever, amen!


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the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven (Matt. 24:30)


The_Walrus
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12 May 2015, 4:12 pm

OK, with the best will in the world, I think you might want to consider psychiatric support.

Why are you bearing witness that your twin brother is Judas Iscariot in court, anyway? Is he accused of a crime?



Edward_Palamar
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12 May 2015, 4:25 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
OK, with the best will in the world, I think you might want to consider psychiatric support.

Why are you bearing witness that your twin brother is Judas Iscariot in court, anyway? Is he accused of a crime?

The story of Judas Iscariot is well documented.

But the General Resurrection of the Dead is something totally new, never before experienced.

It so happens that a crime was committed not only against myself, but against others, too, even before Judas Iscariot was resurrected.

There is real tyranny involved regarding that one evening back in 1955 A.D.

The riotings confirm this.


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St. John the Baptist, whom Jesus Christ calls "the Elias who was to come",
enjoying the rapture of Christ's love in the duty of Petrus Romanus (Peter the Roman),
your ultimate, penultimate authority.

the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven (Matt. 24:30)


envirozentinel
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12 May 2015, 11:37 pm

No judge is going to convict someone for crimes allegedly done in a former lifetime. There is no precedent for that, as there is no empirical evidence for resurrection in any case.

The law of karma would suggest that a person would somehow suffer the consequences in the next life of crimes done in the former, but without recourse to legal methods.

Is your unfortunate brother aware that you have this problem with him because you think he was Judas Iscariot?


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Edward_Palamar
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13 May 2015, 5:32 pm

When one sees all crime/sin emanating from a single source, the devil, who was a liar, a thief, and a murderer from the start, then, any further advances from that single source can rightly be convicted.

At sundown coming today, that single source will only have 360 days left for such advances, ending in an eternal conviction barring Satan and his angels from ever interfering in the lives of men again.

As the living have no advantage over the dead being raised, the advancement of this eternal conviction is being placed in the hands of the resurrected and on the wings of Christ's coming angels.


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St. John the Baptist, whom Jesus Christ calls "the Elias who was to come",
enjoying the rapture of Christ's love in the duty of Petrus Romanus (Peter the Roman),
your ultimate, penultimate authority.

the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven (Matt. 24:30)


naturalplastic
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13 May 2015, 6:05 pm

Edward_Palamar wrote:
Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the first Easter Sunday.

At the hour of His death, many tombs were uncovered by an earthquake.

On Sunday morning, the saints in those tombs bilocated, and were seen by many.

These did not resurrect, per se, but appeared to those who knew them when they were alive.

This was a further sign of Christ's resurrection.

The General Resurrection of the Dead is occuring now.

This Ascension Thursday, May 14, 2015 A.D., is the penultimate Ascension Thursday before the completion of the 1,335 day period of Daniel 12:12.

Ascension Thursday of 2016 A.D. will be May 5th, the 1,332 day in the count.


So on the moment Christ was resurrected "saints" came out of their tombs and appeared to folks?

That doesn't make sense.

Thats like saying that when the Wright Brothers got their crude craft to fly at Kitty Hawk "they celebrated by booking a flight on Jet Blue to Disneyland". The Wrights couldnt have used the avation industry when they had only just invented aviation themselves.

No Christian saint had lived nor died in Christ's own lifetime. So how could any Christian saint have "resurrected" the same moment Christ did?

Maybe you mean saints have a habit of doing this on the anniversary of Christ's resurrection. But it sure sounds like you're saying they did this the actual moment he resurrected.



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13 May 2015, 6:48 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Edward_Palamar wrote:
Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the first Easter Sunday.

At the hour of His death, many tombs were uncovered by an earthquake.

On Sunday morning, the saints in those tombs bilocated, and were seen by many.

These did not resurrect, per se, but appeared to those who knew them when they were alive.

This was a further sign of Christ's resurrection.

The General Resurrection of the Dead is occuring now.

This Ascension Thursday, May 14, 2015 A.D., is the penultimate Ascension Thursday before the completion of the 1,335 day period of Daniel 12:12.

Ascension Thursday of 2016 A.D. will be May 5th, the 1,332 day in the count.


So on the moment Christ was resurrected "saints" came out of their tombs and appeared to folks?

That doesn't make sense.

Thats like saying that when the Wright Brothers got their crude craft to fly at Kitty Hawk "they celebrated by booking a flight on Jet Blue to Disneyland". The Wrights couldnt have used the avation industry when they had only just invented aviation themselves.

No Christian saint had lived nor died in Christ's own lifetime. So how could any Christian saint have "resurrected" the same moment Christ did?

Maybe you mean saints have a habit of doing this on the anniversary of Christ's resurrection. But it sure sounds like you're saying they did this the actual moment he resurrected.

That isn't an accurate analogy, as the General Resurrection of the Dead was not to begin until some 1,925 years later.

Those saints that appeared on the first Easter Sunday were physically still in their tombs.

One could have walked to them and looked upon their resting bodies.

The gift of bilocation allows for a secondary appearance of the same body, much like an understudy in drama, or a stunt double. (there are a few on-line references to bilocation)

Christ Himself alluded to such powers of duplicity when He stood before His disciples, yet said of Himself, "the Son of Man, which is in heaven."


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the resurrected prophet of the Most High,
St. John the Baptist, whom Jesus Christ calls "the Elias who was to come",
enjoying the rapture of Christ's love in the duty of Petrus Romanus (Peter the Roman),
your ultimate, penultimate authority.

the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven (Matt. 24:30)


naturalplastic
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14 May 2015, 5:57 pm

Edward_Palamar wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Edward_Palamar wrote:
Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the first Easter Sunday.

At the hour of His death, many tombs were uncovered by an earthquake.

On Sunday morning, the saints in those tombs bilocated, and were seen by many.

These did not resurrect, per se, but appeared to those who knew them when they were alive.

This was a further sign of Christ's resurrection.

The General Resurrection of the Dead is occuring now.

This Ascension Thursday, May 14, 2015 A.D., is the penultimate Ascension Thursday before the completion of the 1,335 day period of Daniel 12:12.

Ascension Thursday of 2016 A.D. will be May 5th, the 1,332 day in the count.


So on the moment Christ was resurrected "saints" came out of their tombs and appeared to folks?

That doesn't make sense.

Thats like saying that when the Wright Brothers got their crude craft to fly at Kitty Hawk "they celebrated by booking a flight on Jet Blue to Disneyland". The Wrights couldnt have used the avation industry when they had only just invented aviation themselves.

No Christian saint had lived nor died in Christ's own lifetime. So how could any Christian saint have "resurrected" the same moment Christ did?

Maybe you mean saints have a habit of doing this on the anniversary of Christ's resurrection. But it sure sounds like you're saying they did this the actual moment he resurrected.

That isn't an accurate analogy, as the General Resurrection of the Dead was not to begin until some 1,925 years later.

Those saints that appeared on the first Easter Sunday were physically still in their tombs.

One could have walked to them and looked upon their resting bodies.

The gift of bilocation allows for a secondary appearance of the same body, much like an understudy in drama, or a stunt double. (there are a few on-line references to bilocation)

Christ Himself alluded to such powers of duplicity when He stood before His disciples, yet said of Himself, "the Son of Man, which is in heaven."


Thats what I am saying: how could "saints appear in their tombs" on the day Christ rose when none of the saints of Christian history had lived yet (much less died, and been put in tombs yet)?



Edward_Palamar
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14 May 2015, 6:31 pm

We're all saints.


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the resurrected prophet of the Most High,
St. John the Baptist, whom Jesus Christ calls "the Elias who was to come",
enjoying the rapture of Christ's love in the duty of Petrus Romanus (Peter the Roman),
your ultimate, penultimate authority.

the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven (Matt. 24:30)