Jesus's original plan was John and Jesus non-profit faith?

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pgd
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01 Aug 2010, 9:09 am

Was Jesus Christ's original religious business idea to create an inhouse/relative-based non-profit religion where his cousin John the Baptist and himself, Jesus Christ, would jointly run the family non-profit religion together?

Two business heads are better than one?

But a glitch occurred when John the Baptist became politically incorrect for speaking against the marriage view of a local politician and his wife, losing his head (literally) over the matter, and Jesus Christ then had the sole responsibility to move his non-profit religion forward which Jesus did until Jesus Christ himself also did something politicially incorrect - he ran through the Temple at Jerusalem with a handgun scaring all the commercial merchants/resulting in reduced mall sales - and that's why Jesus was marked for death shortly thereafter for disorderly conduct at the local religious shopping mall?

(Amend Jesus ran through the Temple of Jerusalem waving a handgun to Jesus ran through the Temple of Jerusalem with a whip).

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Examples:

Non-profit religion as a family business

Moses and his brother Aaron
Jerry Falwell and his son, Jonathan Falwell
Robert H. Schuller and his son, Robert A. Schuller
Pat Robertson and his son
Paul Crouch and sons
Billy Graham and his son, Franklin Graham

Cousin John the Baptist and Jesus Christ

. . .

Pattern: Non-profit keep it in the family religion - $ $ $ $ $ - m o n e y - businesses/religions/denominations/faiths

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Also, because the above scenario too clearly illustrates the business of religion as a family business, any discussion of the above is often viewed as: No questions allowed - convert or die so to speak business approach by some non-profit religious faiths?

Other?



visagrunt
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03 Aug 2010, 12:27 pm

Not outside the realms of the possible.

But what's the relevance to today's beleiver?


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leejosepho
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03 Aug 2010, 12:59 pm

pgd wrote:
Was Jesus Christ's original religious business idea ...


I find your BS offensive.


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AngelRho
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03 Aug 2010, 8:41 pm

pgd wrote:
Was Jesus Christ's original religious business idea to create an inhouse/relative-based non-profit religion where his cousin John the Baptist and himself, Jesus Christ, would jointly run the family non-profit religion together?

Two business heads are better than one?

But a glitch occurred when John the Baptist became politically incorrect for speaking against the marriage view of a local politician and his wife, losing his head (literally) over the matter, and Jesus Christ then had the sole responsibility to move his non-profit religion forward which Jesus did until Jesus Christ himself also did something politicially incorrect - he ran through the Temple at Jerusalem with a handgun scaring all the commercial merchants/resulting in reduced mall sales - and that's why Jesus was marked for death shortly thereafter for disorderly conduct at the local religious shopping mall?

(Amend Jesus ran through the Temple of Jerusalem waving a handgun to Jesus ran through the Temple of Jerusalem with a whip).

---

Examples:

Non-profit religion as a family business

Moses and his brother Aaron
Jerry Falwell and his son, Jonathan Falwell
Robert H. Schuller and his son, Robert A. Schuller
Pat Robertson and his son
Paul Crouch and sons
Billy Graham and his son, Franklin Graham

Cousin John the Baptist and Jesus Christ

. . .

Pattern: Non-profit keep it in the family religion - $ $ $ $ $ - m o n e y - businesses/religions/denominations/faiths

---

Also, because the above scenario too clearly illustrates the business of religion as a family business, any discussion of the above is often viewed as: No questions allowed - convert or die so to speak business approach by some non-profit religious faiths?

Other?


OK, pgd, but you have to explain why Jesus answered to those who challenged Him. Jesus NEVER forced anyone to come to His religion. In fact, when potential new converts came to Him, He found different reasons to turn them away, all of which would have been things that interfered with His vision and teachings.

If it was a business, it was a poorly-run business. I mean, what successful business runs under the model "sell everything you have, give to the poor, and follow Me"? If you start out wealthy to begin with, you only real interest is investing what you have in something productive. I'm a musician/artist, and I don't make very much money. Anything extra between myself and my wife gets re-invested in my craft in hopes of something better in the future. So the goal of a wealthy person is to gain more wealth. What sense does it make to subject yourself to lifelong poverty, all for the sake of the teachings of what seems to be a crazy, religious-reformer nut who claims He's the Son of God?

To a Christian, the answer is obvious: Earthly wealth is more important to people like that than celestial gain and eternal salvation. One you have right now, the other you have to wait until you get to the other side. People who can't see past this life on earth have a lot of difficulty understanding something that looks to the afterlife and beyond. We want what we want and we want it NOW. Jesus was concerned about the state of men's souls, not how much money they had. Christianity was never intended to be a business.

A family affair? Sure, I can understand that. God began by focusing His attention on a few select chosen men and families, which later turned into an entire nation. Said nation attempted to make a comeback, did well for a short while, and resorted to raw legalism rather than love for their Father God. God sent His Son Jesus to these people to be the "Light of the World," His own people, God's own family. His own family rejected Him and had Him put to death at the hands of the Romans. His sacrifice paved the way to eternal salvation. He ascended to Heaven leaving His teachings in the hands of His followers. Those followers gradually branched out and spread the Gospel throughout the Roman world, and from there it has spread throughout most of the known world. There were a number of things Jesus could have done if money was the sole end of the religion, but since many of the early Christians that we know about made the choice to accept poverty as a way of life, it's hardly likely that they would have endorsed their own religion as a money-making scheme.

Rather, they left that to certain false prophets and teachers/preachers who have scammed thousands if not millions of believers. Many of these are televangelists, and it's fairly clear who they are, particularly with "blab-it-and-grab-it" philosophy/theology. I'm also not really crazy about so-called emergent churches that reinterpret the Bible to support pretty much whatever aberrant behavior they want to engage in. So-called "seeker-sensitive" churches are also terrible about watering down the message to try to hook unbelievers. I've been reading every word of the Bible over the last several months, and there is very little about its message that is actually easy for people in this day and age to accept because of changes in cultural attitudes. I don't like "feel-good" warm and fuzzy theology from motivational speakers like Joel Osteen who have failed to take a public stand for Christ for the sake of keeping certain people happy and looking good on TV. Joel Osteen eventually recanted and DID make a stand, but only after pressure from a lot of different Christian groups. If he's teaching doctrine consistent with the Bible, that's well and good. But someone who bends to public pressure when the correct answers are plain and simple, if not always pleasant to hear, loses a lot of credibility with me (and many other Christians).

Now, if money is going to a church to support building maintenance, hire church staff, and building the surrounding community (our church will pick a random neighborhood and drop off bags of groceries to people known to need help), that's fine. Youth ministry programs are vital to a church's survival, so spending money on things like music, educational materials, and other necessities are perfectly understandable expenditures to draw from tithes. Some churches will even allocate funds for a nice house for the pastor and his family to live in. But watch out for preachers who drive the finest cars, live in mansions, and fly all over the world in private jets. Living a life of luxury is, to me, at odds with the kind of poverty and selfless giving that Jesus advocated. I fail to see how such lifestyles win souls.



RainingRoses
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14 Nov 2010, 10:44 am

pgd wrote:
Was Jesus Christ's original religious business idea to create an inhouse/relative-based non-profit religion where his cousin John the Baptist and himself, Jesus Christ, would jointly run the family non-profit religion together?

No, I'm pretty sure that the "original religious business idea" was to announce the message that the Kingdom of God is at hand. Jesus never asked anyone for money, but this phrase is found 122 times in the New Testament. Jesus used it 90 times Himself, according to the Gospels.

pgd wrote:
Two business heads are better than one?


What in the world gives you the idea that John the Baptist played anything more than a very minor role in the Biblical story? And that minor role was nothing like the one you describe. Jesus made it very clear who the "business head" is.

pgd wrote:
Pattern: Non-profit keep it in the family religion - $ $ $ $ $ - m o n e y - businesses/religions/denominations/faiths-

Jesus did not "keep it in the family." He turned the stewardship of the Church over to St. Peter: "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church[]" [Mat. 16:18]. That stewardship has been passed down in an unbroken tradition from St. Peter to 264 successor popes. There's your "pattern."

pgd wrote:
Other?

Other what? Views? Like that you're delusional?


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ruveyn
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14 Nov 2010, 12:09 pm

pgd wrote:
Was Jesus Christ's original religious business idea to create an inhouse/relative-based non-profit religion where his cousin John the Baptist and himself, Jesus Christ, would jointly run the family non-profit religion together?



Jesus did not have a religious business idea. He expected to be put to death by either the Temple authorities or the Romans to work a transformation on the human race. Subsequent facts have shown that he was extremely deluded.

ruveyn



RainingRoses
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14 Nov 2010, 12:14 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Jesus did not have a religious business idea. He expected to be put to death by either the Temple authorities or the Romans to work a transformation on the human race. Subsequent facts have shown that he was extremely deluded.

ruveyn

Just curious ... what subsequent facts?


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mgran
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14 Nov 2010, 1:25 pm

You know, I swear these questions are just posted to annoy the religious. What a load of nonsense! If anyone other than Christians were the target of this kind of rubbish, then people would recognise trolling when they saw it. It's a pity, because some of the OP's thoughts and comments are interesting... but this is just... well it's already been stated in this thread... BS.



number5
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14 Nov 2010, 1:30 pm

leejosepho wrote:
pgd wrote:
Was Jesus Christ's original religious business idea ...


I find your BS offensive.


I think so too, and I'm not even religious.



RainingRoses
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14 Nov 2010, 1:38 pm

mgran wrote:
You know, I swear these questions are just posted to annoy the religious.

Of course they are.

mgran wrote:
If anyone other than Christians were the target of this kind of rubbish, then people would recognise trolling when they saw it.

What does Christian-targeting have to do with troll-recognizing?

mgran wrote:
It's a pity, because some of the OP's thoughts and comments are interesting...

Huh?

mgran wrote:
but this is just... well it's already been stated in this thread... BS.

That's the term being used to describe the OP's thoughts and comments, which you find interesting. I'm confused.


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Put the curse of loneliness on every boy and every girl,
Until everybody's kickin', everybody's scratchin',
Everything seems to fail ?
And it was all for the want of a nail.