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Roxas_XIII
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08 Sep 2010, 12:29 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:
Roxas_XIII wrote:
Well, I'm not saying anything against their right to burn Korans. If they want to tell the rest of the world that they are a bunch of backwards hateful f****, then by all means let them. That's their prerogative as stated by the Constitution.

Of course, if they allow them to do this, then when the mosque next door decides they want to make a bonfire out of a stack of Bibles, then that'd better be allowed too. But of course we all know that isn't going to happen.

But in all seriousness, I do not condone this.

I say this to any Muslims that may be reading this post: This is not how I think, nor how the rest of America thinks. Christianity has its extremists, just like Islam. Just because one church in America decides to stir sh** up does not mean the rest of us feel that way. It's the same way with Islam, al-Qaida does not speak for the majority of Muslims. Just saying.


I salute a sane US citizen.

Seriously folks you need to address a few issues over there 'cause this personal freedom over personal responsibility trip is not getting you anywhere, offending people just for the sheer pleasure of it is obnoxious to say the least and if someone does swat you back then you will have provoked it.
I think some of you are kind of unaware of exactly how antipathetic many of us out here are when you get hit, I heard the reports of nine eleven roll in in real time and while I felt sorry for individual victims I also thought, 'ha! so someone actually [email protected]$#ed you back', then your response - total overkill - and look at the mess you have now...
I think that the west could learn a lot from some aspects of Occidental and Asiatic culture, philosophical traditions that have a lot more to offer us than some of the trash left to us from Christianity, Capitalism and Patriarchal fuedalism.


Ironic. If I said that to most people around here, I'd be considered the polar opposite of sane :P


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pgd
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08 Sep 2010, 12:52 pm

Should Christian pastors who burn Korans be burned at the stake (symbolically) for being politically incorrect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... s_heretics

Is crucifixion (symbolic) the preferred solution today to burning at the stake or drowning?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanis ... nty_Python)

---

How about religious leaders like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin?

Are they heretics?

Should books written by Beck and Palin be burned? Banned from public libraries?



Asmodeus
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08 Sep 2010, 1:51 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Gen. David Petraeus warned it would put in danger the lives of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan.
Wouldn't it be "put the lives of US soldiers in Afganistan in danger"? And by being in an invading army aren't they...?
That's it. Burn CNN.



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08 Sep 2010, 2:27 pm

Jacoby wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
No one is being prevented. I see no argument that there is any legal prohibition against this group's plan.

Rather, they are being persuaded--and that is one of the roles of free expression. The opponents of this plan are free to call it stupid, misguided, dangerous to the United States' interests and any number of other things. Perhaps some of these messages have hit home.

While I don't subscribe to the, "Screw them, if they are offended," approach to political discourse, I arrive at the same conclusion by different means.


It's pretty funny how this parallels the Ground Zero Mosque controversy.


Tha parallels are bloody hilarious.

I only hope someone roasts communion wafers along the bonfire so as to make the event one of inter-faith offensiveness.



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08 Sep 2010, 2:50 pm

The idea's not that original, PZ Myers did it two years ago.

The disk through which the nail has been driven is a communion wafer.

Image



skafather84
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08 Sep 2010, 2:58 pm

What's interesting is that this church is in roughly the same region as the guy who pipe-bombed a mosque.

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/florid ... elp-nation


Jacksonville and Gainesville are about maybe an hour or so away.


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Jono
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08 Sep 2010, 3:03 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Jono wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Jono wrote:
I always thought this plan to burn the Korans was a bad idea to begin with. Why are people letting them continue with this insanity?


As long as these bozos burn their own copy of the Q'ran they have broken no laws.

ruveyn


Probably not but it will anger Muslims. Remember how the Muslims reacted to those Mohammed cartoons? Well, making a bonfire of Korans would arguably more offensive.


I hope the day never comes that our fear of "offending" the Muslims will act like a ball and chain upon us. Screw them, if they are offended. No one should be prevented from doing a legal act.

ruveyn


In at least one news article on this I read today, I read the following quote from the so-called Pastor Terry Jones:

"It is not in my expertise to know exactly what is written in the Koran." I honestly don't know either and most likely neither do a lot the angry members here who are supporting this crap. The fact is, this guy is not only against Muslims, but against Jews, homosexuals etc. and others as well. That makes him and his so-called "church" pretty hypocritical calling another religion one of hate when that is exactly he is promoting. Also, not only has he written a book entitled "Islam is of the Devil" and planning to make a bonfire of Korans on 9/11 when he doesn't even know what that book contains, he likely can't even read the ones he's planning to burn because they are probably written in Arabic. So, the act of burning Korans does more to illustrate what a small-minded pompous prick this Pastor Terry Jones is than anything about Islam. This achieves absolutely nothing for the victims of 9/11.

The first thing to think about is that while you are enjoying freedom of expression, the news of this Koran burning spectacle will reach countries in the east that do not have freedom of expression nor freedom of the press. The fact that many other religious leaders in America condemn the act and that Paster Terry Jones is just a small-minded pompous prick with only 50 members of his pathetic little church will not appear in the media there. The only thing that the Muslims in those countries will see in the media is how intolerant and hateful Christians, and in particular American Christians, are towards Muslims in general. As well as the fact that the Taliban as well as governments like the one in Iran with a political agenda will use this whole episode as part of their propaganda. This whole act will achieve absolutely nothing useful.

Another thing to think about is that freedom of expression is not absolute and has it's limits. It may not be the case in America but in a lot of other countries, freedom of expression excludes any right to hate speech. Those Danish Mohammed cartoons were banned in South Africa for precisely the reason that a Muslim cleric took the case to the Constitutional Court on the basis that they were hate speech and won. While I didn't agree with those cartoons being banned and even googled for them on the internet to see what the fuss was about, I would absolutely agree with a decision ban a Koran burning display like this one which is fuelled by hate. Whether or not anyone likes the Muslims, if something like this is allowed then the Ku Klux Klan must also be allowed spew their bile of hatred towards blacks because that's what this is promoting.



skafather84
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08 Sep 2010, 3:12 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
The idea's not that original, PZ Myers did it two years ago.

The disk through which the nail has been driven is a communion wafer.

Image


It has to be (at least in story) a stolen communion wafer after it's been blessed. Otherwise, it's just a wafer with no meaning.


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Jono
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08 Sep 2010, 3:21 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
I feel the real 'psychos' and the danger come from the Muslim immigrant colonies, who likely still have an increasing birtrate backed up by more immigration. I read one source that predicts that the USA will contain 60 milliion Muslims in the year 2050. While we aren't likely to agree, I see the real threat coming from the side that has numbers and a more vigorous culture. The Christian theocrats are old and dying out anyway.


Can post a link to this source? This has been said before by other people and I'll say it again. The Muslim birthrate is NOT increasing. It is falling just like the birthrate of everyone else in Europe because of contraception and so on. This was a subject of another thread in this forum.



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08 Sep 2010, 3:53 pm

It appears that the good Rev. Jones is a thief as well.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20 ... an-burning




This comes as a great shock to me since religious leaders are usually fundamentally good and upstanding folks and not thieves, sex offenders, racists, murderers, torturers, etc..... :roll:



*sigh*


Fundie Christians are becoming rather predictable and yawn-worthy.



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08 Sep 2010, 5:13 pm

Quote:
falling just like the birthrate of everyone else in Europe because of contraception and so on. This was a subject of another thread in this forum.


Do any of those statistics say anything about 'the Muslim population in America?' The CAIR Islamic advocacy group puts the Muslim population in the USA at present at about 7.5 million. I linked the source for that back in the relevant thread. I honestly from my own experience believe that 7.5 million Islamics could well be an accurate number, or even a low estimate.

Those statistics about the 'falling Muslim birthrates,' honestly seem to me to be cherry-picked stats, and one that actually mostly addressed the populations of mono-faith Muslim countries, and said nothing about the situation of Muslims in America. I want to know what their growth looks like in THIS country, not Iran.

In St. Louis at least, and every other city I've been in in America, even small rural cities, the Muslims and South Asians are building a huge presence. Walk in to any hotel or convenience store and its a better than even chance you get a Muslim or an Indian working behind the counter. They are in the USA in huge numbers and are quite the visible minority. In St. Louis, Muslims are definitely more a common sight than Latinos IMO. Pretty much every other business you enter you will be helped by a non-Oriental Asiatic. They are a hugely prominent minority now in the USA.

The Muslims are building their colonies and reproducing. While we are all distracted(myself included,) by the Palins and Glenn Beck, we may wake up one day living in a Caliphate whilst we were focused on Pat Robertson. In the Suburbs, Asians are moving into house after house. They are forming a huge presence and are generating cash for themselves, whle remaining relatively insular, and not really assimilating. Islamic intolerance is the real threat to our basic freedoms and religious freedom.

Even if the Muslim birthrate is not at the cliche '8 kids per woman,' I'd not dismiss it as a threat at all if that number was knocked down to just 3 or 4. I see veils and that all over the malls and such, and it seems to me that they always have a bunch of children in tow. Every time I go any public place, it seems I see nothing but Muslim women.

While some preachers certainly talk alot, if you actually visit a megachurch congregation, you are likely to find mostly aged people and mabye some middle-aged professionals. Some kids will be there but its hard to say that they are actually active in the worship. These MegaChurchs do get some of the younger generation, but it seems that at least 90% of the millenials are solidly for the Obamanation. I'm just not seeing the big threat coming from this quarter. The Pastors can talk alot, but their congregations are not the vigorous types who will really agitate to impose a "Christian Theocracy," as these people already have a good place in the status quo.

If they want to practice Christian principles and live by the bible on their own for all of their life situations, than more power to them.



Last edited by Hanotaux on 08 Sep 2010, 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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08 Sep 2010, 5:16 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdtFk_V6A4M[/youtube]
:lmao: Watch this. It's hilarious.


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just_ben
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08 Sep 2010, 5:30 pm

:lol:

Reach out... and CRUSH A DOVE!!


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Horus
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08 Sep 2010, 5:41 pm

Apparently Bill O' Reily is leading millions of souls to hell.



Come on all you lukewarm christians...burn his books too!! !


Or do you need a holy ghost enema right up your rear-end??? :lol:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeTEujcr93M[/youtube]



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQu1TBIMSSk&feature=fvw[/youtube]



MONKEY
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08 Sep 2010, 5:45 pm

Horus wrote:
Apparently Bill O' Reily is leading millions of souls to hell.



Come on all you lukewarm christians...burn his books too!! !


Or do you need a holy ghost enema right up your rear-end??? :lol:



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQu1TBIMSSk&feature=fvw[/youtube]


That's one of my favourite songs! :D


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08 Sep 2010, 7:18 pm

Let the Qu'ran speak topic

Book burning may not be illegal, but it is in poor taste, to say the very least. There are other ways to call attention to unfairness. When I see a public display of burning objects, whether they are bras, flags, cars or effigies, it turns me off any message the group was attempting to get across, however legitimate it may be.

Visagrunt is bang on. Find a middle ground, something constructive. 8)


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