Fear of going to Hell?
Ok fair enough....but what's the point of serving god if there is no afterlife whatsoever? That is what you're saying here is it not? Or are you making one of those vague metaphysical distinctions between "soul" and "spirit"? If not....where's the rational self-interest in "serving god" if there's nothing to either fear or look forward to after this life? Should we simply be serving god because he threw us into this world without our consent? Can life be considered a gift for EVERYONE....or even anyone for that matter? Humans rarely, if ever, do anything which doesn't have SOME fundamental self-interest motivating the given act. A god without an afterlife of anykind doesn't seem to have much to offer. Needless to say....you are one of the few christians I know who doesn't believe in some sort of afterlife. This is providing that you don't believe in some unconventional kind of afterlife and I hope you will clarify your position here.
Of course I believe in an "after life," but it is not the kind of "after life" you are thinking about. It would take too long to try and explain it. In fact if I tried to explain it it would probably sound confusing so I don't really want to try. Besides I don't think you're sincerely interested in knowing... you just want some head knowledge or you want to continue endless debating; neither of which I want to engage in.
The OP wanted to know about hell and homosexuality. I think I've done a good enough job answering those questions.
No worries my good man.....or woman I've probably heard it all before in any case. Not too many things confuse me so long as I have some point of reference. Nevertheless....it wasn't exactly easy to tell you believe in an "afterlife" based upon what you wrote.
If you want to find the Bible's truth then earnest pray to God for guidance and he will open a way for you.
I assume you are aware that extensively quoting biblical material will not make it one iota more true or one iota less false.
ruveyn
No, if you want to find the Bible's truth, just read the Bible, duh.
or, if you want to find the Koran's truth, read the Koran.
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?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?
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Already done that in Hebrew and Aramaic.
No matter how many times one reads scriptures it does not increase their factuality.
ruveyn
You might as well try in english.
The Bible's 'truth' is a claimed 'truth' that has varied across time, resulting in the development of different denominations, as well as a "reconciliation" between religion and science (Catholic church). By the way the issue is 'truth' rather than facts.
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?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?
Well I am definitely an Atheist myself, but maybe I can provide a word or two of comfort: I became an Atheist when I was seven years old, because I believed that no child should be scared of burning forever in a lake of fire. When I identified that fear within myself, I had to eradicate it--- because if God did exist, and here is my advice, he would be satisfied you lived life as a good person and did not harm others intentionally. I would expect God to be more accepting of those who intellectually challenge his existence and rules than those who blindly follow them and kill in his name. You could say homosexuals may go to hell, but there are homosexual animals. If God made everything perfectly (unless he is fallible and not an omnipotent deity at all?), why would he create gay animals (who aren't cognitive and therefore don't have a 'choice'; how they behave is genetically programmed into them) if it were not okay to be gay?
I wouldn't worry yourself. You will find by the end of your life that you've spent the whole thing worrying about dying and never living a day of it.
I'm much happier without God in my life because it also removes fear. I believe death involves nothingness, pure nothingness, a void in conscience where I no longer exist in any way, shape, or form. I would suggest reading books by Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Douglas Adams, and other Atheists who address the problem of people being terrified of Hell needlessly.
The Bible's 'truth' is a claimed 'truth' that has varied across time, resulting in the development of different denominations, as well as a "reconciliation" between religion and science (Catholic church). By the way the issue is 'truth' rather than facts.
The truth of a statement about the world is an assertion of fact. Fact is what is. Truth is a predicate applying to propositions or judgments.
ruveyn
lotuspuppy
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I think I overstated my fears, and made myself come across as a total worry-wart. In reality, I worry about this stuff only occaisonally, mostly at night.
I am deeply heartened, though, by the lively and thoughtful discussion that has developed here. Whether I am an athiest or strict Catholic or just bullshitting my OP, I sincerely appreciate the discussion.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14g_Zd_WCaY[/youtube]
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Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
Most of us aren't so bad. Yeah we tell a few lies. We are a bit selfish and a bit greedy at times.
But most of the time most of us do more good than we do harm. We try to do what we should for our friends and our family. We obey the laws. We cross at the lights and park between the lines.
So do we really deserve eternal torture? Being boiled, grilled and disemboweled in incredible pain for thousands of years or for all eternity?
How could we POSSIBLY deserve that? Even if I got angry and beat someone to death does that mean I deserve to be beaten to death for all eternity? God, I hope not.
But most of the time most of us do more good than we do harm. We try to do what we should for our friends and our family. We obey the laws. We cross at the lights and park between the lines.
So do we really deserve eternal torture? Being boiled, grilled and disemboweled in incredible pain for thousands of years or for all eternity?
How could we POSSIBLY deserve that? Even if I got angry and beat someone to death does that mean I deserve to be beaten to death for all eternity? God, I hope not.
Yes, and thinking of God as our "Father", can anyone with children imagine condemning them to eternal torment for not being perfect?
techstepgenr8tion
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How could we POSSIBLY deserve that? Even if I got angry and beat someone to death does that mean I deserve to be beaten to death for all eternity? God, I hope not.
Agreed, it sounds like establishment rhetoric.
i'm with meadow, except it's been 4 times. one i have no recollection of, the other three where very strange experiences.
i don't expect to go to' heaven', actually don't think i want to, the way it has been described , doesn't sound appealing. no dogs/cats/birds. that sucks. be with your human 'loved ones'. well gee, now that would be hell.
don't believe in hell or the concept of a satan. except......just maybe........that's what we're going through now! you have to admit......that would explain bristol palin and tom delay being on 'dancin wit the sturss'. not many other possible explanations.
techstepgenr8tion
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i don't expect to go to' heaven', actually don't think i want to, the way it has been described , doesn't sound appealing. no dogs/cats/birds. that sucks. be with your human 'loved ones'. well gee, now that would be hell.
Pop-culture has a way of getting everything wrong that it touches. I wouldn't worry - whether its nothingness, whether its heaven, whether its 'hell' if such a place exits, I'm pretty sure their earthly descriptions are quite laughable if compared to their actual mechanics and what they're like to experience (or in the case of oblivion not experience).
Now, religion is a burden as I wake up to the possibility of an Afterlife. An afterlife never thrilled me. I personally wish everything could just end, and hope Heaven, if it exists, is a state of pure nothingness. However, I have utter faith Hell exists. Here are the big reasons I think I'm going there.
1. I am a homosexual, and according to most religions, homosexuals get sent to hell straightaway.
2. I don't go to church anymore. Partly this is because I started wondering if #1 is true, and wondered if there was a point in going to church.
3. God and I may have different ideas on morality. For instance, I don't give to beggars on the street, and often ignore them. God may not like that. Does that mean I am going to Hell?
4. What if the Christian God is a lie? What if Islam is the true religion? If that is true, and I am a Christian, I'd live a great life, and still go to Hell. #1 automatically condemns me to Hell under most religions, but even if I was straight, I'd go to Hell if I chose the wrong religion. Not that anyone has a good way of knowing which religion is better than the other.
Anyone ever think about this, or should I just stop worrying?
I don't believe that people to hell straight away, but then again I'm going to hell and there isn't a lot than can be done about it.