Worried about boyfriend's girl best friend

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Great! That's exactly how I'm being with her, friendly as always. Keeps me in the clear so she has nothing to accuse me of, and nothing to blow out of proportion. My boyfriend's wrapped around her little finger completely... Although now he's promised me that if she does anything to either of us again, i.e. blanks me again or sends him on another pointless guilt trip, he's breaking ties with her for good. It's going to be hard to explain this one to him I guess. Wonder what scheme she'll come up with next...

Forgot to mention guys - I'm not giving any ultimatum at this point. An ultimatum involves telling him to do something or else I'm leaving. I have no desire to leave right now, and nobody should ever throw the ultimatum out there unless they do... in which case, they should actually just leave without making any "or else" requests. I have, however, made it clear that if she continues to cause trouble, it may become too much to bear and I may eventually want to get out. He just needs to either get her to stop being a narcissist or to get away from the narcissist, the latter of course being the more doable and likely outcome.

Bad day... beginning to consider the ultimatum thing. Which means I'm ready to leave if he doesn't fix things.

I'm still hurt by his failure to deal with this woman. I'm also becoming really tired of being the one to make all the effort... I'm always the one to grab the remote and switch off the TV, or shut the laptop down, etc. so that we can talk and have personal time together with no distractions. I'm the one to get the ball rolling on anything personally or physically intimate. And it seems lately that I'm always going to him to say I'm unhappy with this or that and it always seems that he'll promise to fix it but never sticks to his word. I think the reason this particular event with the best friend has felt like such a hard blow is not only that it's the umpteenth time I've asked him to deal with her, but it's also just another let-down where he'd promise to make things better and then not do it. She's still giving me the silent treatment and I'm fed up of having to be nice to her in case she holds it against me. I shouldn't be trying to please HER - he should be trying to please ME by standing up to her so that I don't have to please her! I hate the recurring thoughts of him standing up to me for her if she decides to hold something against me, like me giving up on playing nice. And he should be 100% willing to believe me as I've never given reason for him not to.

I don't know what to do though. I don't see the point in talking to him any more because it feels like he's taking me for granted and presuming that doing nothing will suffice. All I can imagine is him sitting back and waiting for the problems to go away by themselves. They don't go away, they accumulate. But when I do put all that effort in it always results in happiness - like those times I shut off the distractions to make a nice personal atmosphere for us... that always results in us talking about stuff and being really happy together because of it. That, to me, is a big indicator that we really have had a great thing going for us and that if he'd only make the effort for real, it could return to being that special for us. I don't know what to do... I feel powerless from all the times I've failed to talk him into fixing stuff, and as many times as I've brought up things I'm unhappy with I've asked in return if there's anything I can do. I believe I've been as fair and strong and mature as I can be and now I've run out of ideas. Have I covered every angle? Is there something I'm missing? Am I doing something wrong and he's just not doing anything about it? Should I perhaps put all the problems in written form or something, instead of talking, as talking doesn't seem to work?

hmm. If you suggest an ultimatum, you must not expect him to return. Only do that If you are prepared and willing to accept walking out an never seeing him again.

The ideal situation would be he cuts her off and returns to you, but that may not happen. Just trying to save some heart break.

Is there anyway you can just not see this stupid tart at all? Why is he hanging around with a girl when he has a girlfriend? Tell him you won't have anything to do with her - see her - speak to her - anything - until he grows some balls.

I know, I don't want to threaten drastic stuff, but I feel like I'm not getting much out of our relationship lately, and this particular situation just makes it all worse... I have a choir rehearsal with her every Monday night and we're both students at the same music school and her harpsichord teacher is my organ teacher, so I'm not really able to avoid her completely. It's really exhausting to have to pretend to be happy to see her and to be so careful around her when I get crap thrown at me in return, just because I feel like he'll side with her should she go blow my lack of interest into something it's not (which I believe likely because she is quite the manipulative liar). I'm getting to the point where I'm questioning why we're actually together... Any time I bring up a problem, he just responds with "We'll always have each other" and "We love each other so it'll all be ok", which to me is saying "I couldn't be bothered actually fixing the problem when I know you'll just stay with me no matter what." Basically, I feel like an idiot going to him to talk about stuff over and over and then effectively being told it doesn't actually matter. If it's making the relationship one-sided, then yes, it does matter. Deep down I still love this man, and I don't want to lose him, but he's not ensuring my needs are fulfilled when I AM making sure his needs are fulfilled. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm not overdoing it as I do give him space and alone-time and time with his friends etc. and it's not like I'm nagging like a housewife.

So, I'm stuck... I want him to treat me more like I treat him but I feel like I'm making all the effort, and that no matter how serious the problem, he'll not bother dealing with it... and yet, we're so good together, or at least we are when I get us personal time together and when I bring up problems to deal with - but there's the issue, it's me who has to do it all. I don't know if I'm willing to walk out, but I do feel like I'm losing interest in staying

Hey there,

I have read my way through your thread and that reminds me of a similar situation I have been through myself. The only difference is, that it was a girl/girl thing in my case and at one time a friend of mine tried to separate me and my ex, then another friend we both met. The latter has won the game, although things between me and my ex were kinda screwed, anyway, this 2nd friend gave it the final knock out.
Looking back, I have tried to reflect what happened and I was not happy with what I realized. People get often jealous if someone has something they don't have, especially when that someone is considered as "weaker", for instance having some disability or any other known issue. Many might claim to be tolerant and all, but as only long as their position is not threatened. I'm not sure if your bf "best friend" knows about you, but if she does, it would motivate her even more to break you both apart. Envy is a fairly primitive quality, but very common among so called.. "normal people".

I have to say that your bf's "friend" is damn clever, she knows very well how to manipulate you both, especially him. She has an interest not to lose him and keep him only for herself, despite what her intentions might be. However, she will keep going, till she gets what she wants, unless someone breaks that circle. The closest candidate for this would be your bf, he needs to realize that his "friend" is (ab)using the friendship in order to fulfill her self-interests. In that case, he should act w/o thinking twice and choose you over her. But, unfortunately, you can't change anyone unless it comes from their own mind. So there's you left to make a change if he doesn't have the balls to do so. This is all about loyalty and trust, I learned my lesson the hard way, if anyone of my friends (or my new gf's friends) would act like your bf's friend, we would cut them off all the way. If my gf would still keep in touch with them.. I would let my gf go. My trust would be out of the window, and I would not want to know what dirty little secrets they share from the past, or even present...

Just my 2 cents... Hope it's helpful in some way.

Thanks... it's really a comfort to know there are others who've been here too and not feel like I'm going over the top... it's getting more and more clear to me now that I'm not. He spent all day yesterday hiding from me because he knew things were bad and didn't have the guts to face up to it. He waited for me to come to him, and sadly, I didn't expect anything different.

I'm wondering right now whether to end it or not. I did go to him in the end last night and talk to him about everything even though it was self-repetition. The way he responded showed that he already knew everything was going badly and already knew what he was doing wrong, yet he's still asking me to spell it all out for him, and that wouldn't bother me so much if I wasn't ALREADY doing so! I cried then for about half an hour solid and he held me while I was crying but I didn't feel much comfort from it, not surprisingly when I was in such a mess. He then took me out to dinner which was a nice gesture and was a little more comforting as it gave us time together, which is what I'd been feeling deprived of as well as feeling let down with him and the bullying friend. I'm still worried about whether I should leave or stay, as that woman is the one thing that has been consistently problematic in our relationship. His failure to make an effort came with time, but she was nasty from day 1 and he's always sided with her for some bizarre reason. And she's caused me so much stress and worry that I recently had a nightmare about her. If that's not an indicator that she has to go, I dunno what is.

Right now, he's in bed asleep, and I'm here in the kitchen alone feeling miserable and pondering what to do... I focused a lot last night on reminiscing on when times were good between us and we were happy and excited about each other and we were able to make it through the bad times with each other's support etc. It was all as a relationship should be and nothing seemed like it could go wrong. Well, apart from the crap I got from that friend. And that's what made me cry so much... I cried for us and what things have become, and how frustrated and hurt I was at my failed efforts to fix it, and my realization that I was the only one trying.

I dunno whether to give it another chance. A part of me wants to write everything down on paper and slip it under the door to him, and see if things are clearer to him written down, where he can't make excuses as I'm not there. Maybe it has truly become ok for me to expect him to cut ties with her, and maybe I should show more hurt and call him on his wrongs. Maybe I should give him one last chance and give him a set date to improve things by, and then leave if it's not going to work? Would that be fair?

A major thank you to everybody who's been here responding to all this... It really means a lot and has helped me tease things out and feel less alone with it. xxx

Whatever happens, just know this.

Your boyfriend, will end up a sad and lonely man. None of his relationships will ever last because he's too weak minded. You are nice.. his next GF might not be.

I don't know what to suggest. The best option is that you both move away.
If thats not possible you can wait it out until you don't have to see her. But you will have to deal with it until that time comes.

If it was a good friend of mine in your situation, I would push it to breaking point and force the girl to show her true colours in front of my friends BF.

Basically I would go upto the three of you and confront her until she snaps. Hopefully reduce her to tears and do it in a way that she doesn't dare do it again. I have no sympathy for people who do this.

If she is a sadistic sociopath it's unlikely this will work. Perhaps you can play her game and be a complete b*tch to her.

Take my advice with a grain of salt because I really don't know what the best thing to do would be in your situation. She need to be shown what piece of sh*t she really is, so does everyone else.

Righty-o, I've spilled all my frustrations in an email to him because I know that the first thing he does every day is check his emails. I included a huge long rant about her. I said I didn't know how it could possibly work between us while she's still in the picture. I also told him that it's by no means good enough to ask me to spell it out for him when I need to have time with him. I'm already doing that and that's why I'm upset in the first place along with this bullying idiot "friend" of his!

Feeling a bit better for having ranted at him in a way he can't ignore. It's written down in front of him now. He can take if or leave it. In the meantime, I'm going to go make some nice hot tea and go for a walk in the gorgeous park out the other side of town. Maybe I'll bring my lappy here and work on some stuff... I'll know soon whether I'll be putting my relationship with him behind me or my relationship with her; either way, there will be relief and things will improve whether it involves a break-up or a patch-up. I feel more like I can go about my life now just knowing that SOME kind of resolution is near.

Hugs to you guys for being such a support!!

I really feel for you, what a nightmare situation. One thing to think on which I was told is that you cannot change anyone else's behaviour, you can only change your own. You are putting all your energy into trying to get both of them to change. Instead, put your energy into you and setting your boundaries and then defending them.

When I was your age I was in a relationship with someone who drank too much and got violent. I spent so much energy trying to get him to behave differently but it was a waste of time. In the end I had to draw my boundaries. Was I prepared to carry on living with someone who acted in a way that made me miserable?

Because ultimately that's the choice. You cannot change how he responds, you can only choose whether or not you are prepared to live with how he responds. If you are, accept it and learn to live with the pain. If not, draw the line in the sand and stand up to him. (Remember that your problem is actually with him not her. She acts the way she does because he allows it. My partner would dump his own mother without a second thought if she treated me this badly.)

A thought came to my mind just now... It seems that he kinda enjoys the fact being surrounded by 2 women, assuming that he can have you both to fulfill his own needs, whatever they may be. Also, from his perspective, if he dumps her for you, he probably fears to end up alone b/c he lost her as a friend, if he chooses her, he can always get back when he needs to. Kinda selfish of him, if you ask me. Things in life can be difficult at times, but that's no excuse in acting the way he does.

Yup pretty selfish. I got back home about an hour and a half ago and he came to me to talk (finally!). I made him choose today and he's chosen me, because I simply cannot cope with the stress of her bullying any more. It's brought me to the point of nightmares of her, and that's a serious sign of stress. He's realized how much damage she's doing. He is terrified of losing a friend, so he doesn't want to do it, but he's decided that he's even more terrified of losing me and he's going to make it work even though she'll be extremely nasty about it (surprise surprise). Besides, if she was a real friend she wouldn't treat either of us like crap and she'd have the maturity to at least pretend not to be jealous or whatever. She's not a worthwhile friend to keep as far as I can see, and if he'd just give himself the chance to bond with his other friends a bit more he could have a far healthier social life. He doesn't get out enough! Well, things are looking hopeful now and I'm gonna have a talk with him now about facing up to her and stuff. I care that it's hard for him, but I know for a fact that I can no longer cope with the strain.

Why does he need to face up to her? Isn't that part of the problem? Wouldn't it be better if he just distanced himself, not contacting her, politely making excuses not to get together with her and not replying to emails etc?

Because she'll keep lying and manipulating him and trying to make him feel bad about everything, whereas if she gets a proper ass-whipping she'll realize that he sees right through her now and that she's not going to succeed again, therefore she won't try it again, and that'll put a faster and more secure end to her messing than trying to worm away from it. And hopefully it'll make her treat other people with more respect in the future.

but is he capable of making it clear to her that he means it? the way i picture it in my head , she is even capable of starting to cry and things could end badly if she manipulates him into comforting her.....oh god, i'm scared for you just as if it was me. i know that kind of girls, something similar happened to me before. it was over the internet bur it was still really strange to see the boyfriend you talk to 10 minutes a day spend 4 hours in a row laughing with a girl who hates you, through a headset, sitting next to you. eerie. let us know how it goes!

It almost seems as if he's afraid of her? That's not healthy...