NT's can't comprehend the value of solitude

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zen_mistress
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20 Sep 2010, 12:47 am

Im overdosing on solitude. Only I dont want it. Here people, have some of mine....


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bee33
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20 Sep 2010, 12:50 am

cnidocyte wrote:
For instance I observe the whole transition from being awake, to being asleep and during that transition state when my bodies paralyzed but I haven't started dreaming yet I learn that everything we perceive to be reality is constructed with and maintained by logic alone. I say that but its meaningless to anyone who hasn't seen what I've seen. Its as if NT's are blind to these things because they devalue the observations by default.

Have you read Proust? He has a lot to say about the sensations and thoughts that occur while in that half-state between falling asleep and waking up.
http://www.authorama.com/remembrance-of ... ast-1.html
I don't know if he was AS, but he was an intense and peculiar person.



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20 Sep 2010, 1:40 am

I value solitude, but it's only good if it's going to contribute to your overall success in the long run, like if you were a mad scientist shut away from the world to work on a theory which would grant you global domination.

When I was younger I used to value being alone just so I could engage in my pointless interests undisturbed, like learning about trivial facts which will never be of use to either me or anyone else, ever.

I realised years ago that this equates to nothing but mental masturbation, indulging in ideas and interests which bring pleasure but no practical use. And like the more worthwhile opposite of masturbation, SEX, interests which involve other people are almost always more practically useful and beneficial for yourself than those you partake in alone. It may be more difficult and complicated to involve others in your interests, but it is by far superior to sitting in the dark stroking your own mind for no ultimate purpose other than trivial self-pleasure.

I'd love to be able to do everything I want in life without having to involve other people, and just sit in comfort and ease alone, but the satisfaction I desire from life requires me to abandon that and experience highly social situations which could be seen as "hardships" in comparison to just lounging around on my own.

Sorry for the metaphors but they seemed fitting. You'll never influence the world to be how you want it to be, without being in contact with others and putting forth the hard work to spread your ideas among them, instead of focusing only on yourself and your fruitless personal interests. Just like you'll never sow your "seed" and reproduce by simply masturbating.



Meursault
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20 Sep 2010, 5:09 am

Invader wrote:
I realised years ago that this equates to nothing but mental masturbation, indulging in ideas and interests which bring pleasure but no practical use. And like the more worthwhile opposite of masturbation, SEX, interests which involve other people are almost always more practically useful and beneficial for yourself than those you partake in alone.


I don't think you're being lewd at all, it's the pitch-perfect metaphor. Not solitude in and of itself, but solitary thinking can cross the threshold into self-indulgence, where you essentially keep doing it because it feels good, albeit with decreasing returns.

Speaking for myself, when I was young I seemed to enjoy this kind of solitude as self-gratification. But in college I began to see this for what it truly was and tried to socialize every chance I got. Big mistake - slow descent into neural meltdown began, even as (or perhaps because) I got decent at it.

Ever since I've been in no man's land, where I'm either going through the motions of meaningful solitude, or going through the motions of meaningful outreach - without encountering anything meaningful anywhere. Anyone else find themselves in this position?


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20 Sep 2010, 8:06 am

The value of solitude for the post is not defined, and thus the value is much broader than what the OP probably intended. If the OP's definition is a broad generalization, then I cannot agree with it.

I can't agree with the broader definition of the value of solitude because that is simply determined by those who seek the solitude, and why. Everyone desires solitude for something: sleep, concentration, muddled with emotions (angry, sad, confused), and various other reasons. Perhaps what they can't comprehend is why those with an ASD might seek solitude, and why they seek such a large amount of it (in comparison to their own amount).

I like solitude for some reasons I still don't fully understand. One reason though is so that I'm not distracted from my interests. I hate being distracted from them.


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20 Sep 2010, 1:13 pm

I like solitude. I don't understand why people seem to think it's bad, harmful, even. There's a difference between being alone and being lonely. I don't feel lonely. I have things such as my books, dvd, and such. Why should I be lonely?


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daniel3103
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20 Sep 2010, 1:21 pm

Meursault wrote:

Ever since I've been in no man's land, where I'm either going through the motions of meaningful solitude, or going through the motions of meaningful outreach - without encountering anything meaningful anywhere.


Do you have a clear idea of what you are looking for? If not, you are unlikely to notice potentially meaningful moments even if they happen.



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20 Sep 2010, 3:05 pm

I think it's a mistake to automatically equate NT with "extrovert". Extroverts are energized by social contact, and get worn out if they are alone. Introverts are the opposite. They get worn out by social interaction, and recharge by being alone. Those are the definitions. NT's can be either extroverts or introverts, and so can people on the spectrum. I suspect that it's especially hard to be an AS extrovert, because they've got the need to interact socially, but often not the ability to do it acceptably well.

Extroverts are usually more visible, because of their very nature. An introvert isn't going to walk up to a group of people who are laughing and socializing, and say, "You guys have been sitting here talking about nothing for three hours now! What is wrong with you? Why don't you go home and read a book? Are you afraid of your own company, or something?" If he did that, he'd have the whole group treating him like he's a nut. (Believe me, I've tried.)



Without even taking AS into account, introverts and extroverts really have trouble understanding one another. I'm NT (more or less?), and life has been pretty tough at times, with people acting like I'm somehow defective for not wanting to "go out" all the time. It's alright now that I'm married with kids, and no longer expected to be out socializing. But when I was younger, it sucked. Every Monday at work, people would want to know what I did over the weekend, and with whom. "What?! You went to the bookstore alone? And then you came back to your dorm room and read??? How BORING!! You need a LIFE!! !" When people say things like that to you, over and over, you start believing that there is something seriously wrong with you. I tried everything from therapy to joining churches (I'm an atheist), because I believed I had some kind of defect, and needed to figure out how to socialize like other people, and how to not get cranky and worn out when I was dragged to a social event.

The truth is, though, not everyone is a social butterfly, and that's okay. There's something about being young (high school and young 20's) that is especially hard for introverts, because it's such a social time for so many people. Everyone is figuring out who they are, and differences can be hard to understand or tolerate. If you're really lucky (NOT), you get stuck in a family of extreme extroverts, who can't fathom the possibility that you might actually enjoy your solitude.

Sorry for the long, rambling post. I just wanted to say that it's okay to enjoy your solitude.



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21 Sep 2010, 2:49 am

my mom usually wants my attention 24 7 and I like some sozalizing but being alone 2-5 hours a day is priceless. I grow so much when I am by myself. being around people depleats me and my alone time is almosy sacred. Thank you for reminding me how much I need this time alone :D


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21 Sep 2010, 5:39 am

cnidocyte wrote:
I've yet to hear from anyone outside this forum that didn't seem to have the opinion that solitude is bad and socializing is good. My ma's pretty considerate about most of my differences but she seems to have trouble comprehending the fact that I evolve when I'm alone and cease to evolve when I'm around others rather than the other way around. I think its something about their brain chemistry, socializing makes them feel good and they assume that since they are like that then everyone else must be like that. When I'm alone I do what shamans call "silent learning". I observe everything around me and from these observations I learn things that can only be learned this way. You can't pass this knowledge on with words because unless the other person has observed it themselves they won't know what you're talking about. For instance I observe the whole transition from being awake, to being asleep and during that transition state when my bodies paralyzed but I haven't started dreaming yet I learn that everything we perceive to be reality is constructed with and maintained by logic alone. I say that but its meaningless to anyone who hasn't seen what I've seen. Its as if NT's are blind to these things because they devalue the observations by default. Then again this most likely isn't a ASP vs. NT thing, its most likely a fluid concept of reality vs. solid concept of reality thing.


---

Know some NT's who require social stimulation to feel normal. The NT's will make remarks like visiting some friends calmed them down and made them feel normal.

In my own life, am very aware that solitude noticeably reduces sensory stimulation. Sensory overload goes down to zero and a kind of calm focus is possible within that state of solitude.

Calm focus is not possible for me within the context of a party with a loud band, food, and drinks.

Am very aware of the value of socialization and that high achievers in life can have tables which are designed to seat a dozen or more people comfortably since they realize that projects are accomplished through teams of well-organized employees and that it is helpful to assemble that team altogether in one place to huddle prior to executing the next step.

There is a place for both solitude and socializing in almost everyone's life it seems to me.

In live theater, some entertainers symbolically feed off the audience as well as the audience tends to symbolically feed off the entertainers.



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21 Sep 2010, 2:15 pm

elderwanda wrote:
Sorry for the long, rambling post. I just wanted to say that it's okay to enjoy your solitude.


Thank you very much for your post. I liked it. It made me feel happier and more relaxed. :)



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21 Sep 2010, 2:55 pm

Meursault wrote:
Invader wrote:
I realised years ago that this equates to nothing but mental masturbation, indulging in ideas and interests which bring pleasure but no practical use. And like the more worthwhile opposite of masturbation, SEX, interests which involve other people are almost always more practically useful and beneficial for yourself than those you partake in alone.


I don't think you're being lewd at all, it's the pitch-perfect metaphor. Not solitude in and of itself, but solitary thinking can cross the threshold into self-indulgence, where you essentially keep doing it because it feels good, albeit with decreasing returns.

Speaking for myself, when I was young I seemed to enjoy this kind of solitude as self-gratification. But in college I began to see this for what it truly was and tried to socialize every chance I got. Big mistake - slow descent into neural meltdown began, even as (or perhaps because) I got decent at it.

Ever since I've been in no man's land, where I'm either going through the motions of meaningful solitude, or going through the motions of meaningful outreach - without encountering anything meaningful anywhere. Anyone else find themselves in this position?


Meaning is subjective but it generally requires an object, too, in order for there to be something in which meaning has been invested. Ultimately the meaning of existence and your position in this external world will only have meaning when you assign that meaning to it, and settle upon a satisfying purpose which involves both yourself and the world around you.

Without talking in circles, I think the answer probably lies in a "happy medium", somewhere inbetween the pointless self-indulgence and the aimless random socialization, or more precisely, rather than it laying inbetween these two things, the answer would be a synthesis of them both, in which one validates and gives meaning to the other so that the sum or completed whole becomes greater than its individually useless constituent parts.

That probably sounds really vague but it's difficult to say in simple terms. Being more specific would involve stepping into the realm of subjectivity, and everyone's subjective apprehension of "meaning" can be different to some degree, so that would probably result in even greater confusion. Animal drives may be a more common denominator to aid here. Some would find meaning in breeding and passing their genes on into infinity, allowing their organic body to live forever, whereas some would find meaning in gradually coming to control more and more of the universe over time as though it were part of their own body, these are both things which organisms do and they derive great satisfaction from doing so, which is why they enjoy mating and eating, but either of these ways of interacting with the world only gain meaning when the organism bears in mind a long term purpose for these actions.

Often people lose sight of "meaning" when they think nothing they do matters, that there is no "long term" because they'll die, or that their wants are simply unattainable. Things matter because they bring personal satisfaction, that is what qualifies importance to a creature. Reproduction guarantees the "long term", as future generations may not retain the transient and unnecessary consciousnesses of their past ancestors but they are still essentially the exact same organism and body, containing the very same life, and they do retain that organism's deeper and less transient consciousness, an inherited animal mind which remembers all the most basic important things which matter, like eating and reproduction - they are essentially the same being in a new body, after shedding their old one like a snake does its skin, simply waiting for a new pattern to develop on the surface, as a new superficial and transient identity once again covers up the eternal and more simple animal mind, the real one.

Anyway, this organism will go on living forever and perceiving meaning in the things that it gains satisfaction from doing, to further its life and existence, because it's better to be alive with the potential to do as you please, than dead as dirt without a trace of that potential. That's what gives life itself meaning, and it works as a base to build more complex meanings on top of, just as the immortal base animal mind present in all newborn creatures serves as a base to build elaborate individual consciousnesses on top of in each generation, with their most useful ideas being preserved and passed on to subsequent generations.

The last of those 3 causes of lost meaning, "seeing things as unattainable", can be addressed by the part about "being alive with potential versus being dead as dirt without a trace of it". Even the smallest and most absurdly unthinkable chance at doing what a creature wants, regardless of how much that creature is being held back, is better than being dirt, and there is meaning in trying to succeed regardless of the odds, simply because of that. I said something in another thread recently, to the effect of "If you were tired of running through a burning building and just lay down to die because you didn't know where the exit was, you'd be an idiot, and it would have made more sense to keep running through the flames looking for it until your body was all burned up and fell apart, because there's no way you could possibly know that you weren't going to find the way out by some random ridiculous accident" - So there will always be meaning in living creatures striving toward the unnatainable, that itself gives meaning to blind and irrational persistence. A fox will chew off its own leg to escape a trap and have a chance at getting what it wants out of further life, but so often humans will simply dig their own grave beside the trap because they overthink the importance of their limbs, and grow overly attached to things that aren't even limbs at all. I have ranted long enough so I won't go into the overattachment which many human organisms have to their individual personalities and interests, that transient consciousness or "personality", and how while they're thoughtlessly indulging in that, they forget all about that intransient immortal little animal mind which will be passed on regardless and is ultimately more important, as it is what they really are.

Err crazy rant over... I... I swear.

Ahem... It's possible you just haven't decided what could be meaningful yet, or found anything satisfying enough. Finding a way to break through these difficulties, though, and whatever they stand in the way of, would appear to have meaning or be potentially satisfying enough to persist in the attempts to break through. Lethargy can sometimes mask what would otherwise be readily apparent significance.