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Tensu
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08 Oct 2010, 8:37 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
Which they would need neurons to be able to do.


somebody wasn't paying attention. re-read my last post.

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There isn't anything that they feel.


you, not being a plant, can't say for certain. If a single-celled organism can "feel", why not a plant cell?

though I guess plant cells have cell walls as opposed to membranes... that could muck things up a bit.

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Nope. It is not necessary for a thing that responds to something to 'notice' that it has done so. Computer programs do this all the time. So do mousetraps.


it's different when living tissue is involved.



Ancalagon
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08 Oct 2010, 11:09 pm

Tensu wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
Which they would need neurons to be able to do.


somebody wasn't paying attention. re-read my last post.

I read it through completely at least twice before starting my reply, which was specifically to that post. I quoted several portions of it in my reply. I re-read it just now, just in case.

There isn't anything there that would establish that neurons are not needed. The closest thing to an attempt to establish that is an unsupported conclusory statement that language is being foolish when it strongly implies that they are needed.

Quote:
Quote:
There isn't anything that they feel.


you, not being a plant, can't say for certain.

You, not being a rock, can't say for certain.
You, not being a human being other than yourself, can't say for certain.

Thus, by your argument, we can establish that human beings, other than yourself, are not capable of feeling anything, while at the same time, rocks can feel.

Quote:
If a single-celled organism can "feel", why not a plant cell?

Why do you think that a single-celled organism can feel?

Quote:
though I guess plant cells have cell walls as opposed to membranes... that could muck things up a bit.

What does the type of cell wall have to do with anything?

Quote:
Quote:
Nope. It is not necessary for a thing that responds to something to 'notice' that it has done so. Computer programs do this all the time. So do mousetraps.


it's different when living tissue is involved.

In what way is it different?

What is your definition of living tissue? Does it include viruses? DNA within a living cell? DNA not in a living cell? Cell membranes? Cell walls? Individual atoms within a living cell? Individual electrons within an atom within a living cell?

I'm saying neurons are needed, you're saying living tissue. What about living tissue makes it able to feel without neurons?


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skafather84
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11 Oct 2010, 9:41 am

http://www.ted.com/talks/stefano_mancus ... gence.html


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phil777
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11 Oct 2010, 11:17 am

Well, from what little i know. I've heard that in more pragmatic ways, being "nice" to the plant and caring for its needs will allow it to grow more than ignoring them. =/



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11 Oct 2010, 1:45 pm

jc6chan wrote:
Just because they don't show feelings of pain nor do they have nerve cells how are we so sure? Maybe they have another way to receive touch sensory signals. What if a tree is in constant pain after you "amputate" its branch? Or are we, as humans, not going to be concerned about it so long as there is no biological evidence that plants feel pain. I guess that would be my own best answer too.


According to something I've heard (hence I don't believe if I should believe it), cucumbers have about six times higher physical sensitivity than human beings...



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11 Oct 2010, 7:48 pm

thehandmedown wrote:
I dont think plants have feelings, but I do think that they communicate in their own ways and have knowledge of their own things

yes, i agree. and i think some scientific studies have shown that plants can sense people's presence, that they grow better while hearing music, and that they react to cutting with some sort of plant-response. i don't think that it is pain like people feel, but they respond in their own way.

i don't believe in the idea of souls or spirits, but if it were true, i would like to think all living things have souls.

OP, this concept makes me think of Jainism, a little.


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12 Oct 2010, 3:40 am

Has no one seen the old horror movie "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" ?

It is us against them. If we don't eat them first then they will eat us!

Remember "The Day of the Triffids"



lostonearth35
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30 Sep 2015, 5:10 pm

I guess if plants have feelings then it's just as "wrong" to eat them as it is to eat animals. Then we'd starve to death.

In order for something to live, something else has to die. It's just a part of nature and we need to understand and accept that. Otherwise living things would become too numerous and the whole world would be destroyed.



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30 Sep 2015, 11:45 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
I asked a plant how it was feeling and it told me to piss off, it was busy pollinating.


My houseplants told me that I was too young to watch them pollinate!



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01 Oct 2015, 1:06 am

We don't know whether plants have feelings---we simply don't give a s**t.

The only reason we have empathy (or should I say, "neurotypicals have empathy"?---hmm...) in the first place is because it's in your best interest to be aware of the feelings of those who can hurt you if they're displeased. It's not evolutionarily advantageous to waste time and energy caring about the feelings of someone who can't retaliate to the damage you inflict them, and has no allies who would for some reason or other do it for them.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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01 Oct 2015, 5:18 am

They feel fear though:

Quote:
And we assume you need ears to hear. But researchers, says Pollan, have played a recording of a caterpillar munching on a leaf to plants — and the plants react. They begin to secrete defensive chemicals — even though the plant isn't really threatened, Pollan says. "It is somehow hearing what is, to it, a terrifying sound of a caterpillar munching on its leaves."


http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/n ... out-plants



kamiyu910
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01 Oct 2015, 10:27 am

Zombie post rises from the grave!
But I suppose it's a bit relevant with the new studies that talk about how plants react to pain

http://www.collective-evolution.com/201 ... -find-out/


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naturalplastic
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01 Oct 2015, 12:17 pm

Like 20 years ago I remember hearing newstories about how trees "talk" to each other. One tree gets attacked by bugs, and it sends out pheromones into the air that other trees pick up. And the whole forest starts to put out defensive chemicals.



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01 Oct 2015, 2:26 pm

Yeah, it's a pheromonal phalanx. If you're a tree sending out defensive chemicals, and the tree next to you isn't, there is still a chance for the pests to get a foothold in your forest and eventually they might develop a strain that is resistant to your defensive chemicals. And then you're doomed. Better then to warn your competition, present a united chemical front and live to compete another day.


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naturalplastic
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01 Oct 2015, 4:22 pm

Not only do plants have feelings we probably hurt their feelings on a regular basis when we use un pc terms to describe some of them. Like calling some of them "weeds".

With species like dandelions, and crabgrass, and the like, instead of the common practice of calling them "weeds" i prefer to call them "cultivationally independent Americans".



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01 Oct 2015, 4:34 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
"cultivationally independent Americans".


Thread over.

You win.


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