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AdmiralCrunch
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11 Oct 2010, 11:54 am

Joe90 wrote:
I'm also angry with myself because I take sh** from people, and I just cannot stick up for myself.

Now here's a puzzle that is not easily solved. :scratch:

Joe90 wrote:
Is there any way I can change this? ... People say, ''oh just ignore them,'' but ignoring people is practially letting them sh** upon me.

I formulated, rather too late in life, that there's a huge distinction between receiving disrespect from someone privately versus publicly.
In private, disrespect can be ignored. I prefer conflict avoidance so this is what I always do.
In public, you're required to respond. You're supposed to defend your reputation from anyone detracting it and in this case are not allowed to walk away. This is due to our society being primitive and violent; you are supposed to "own" the opinions of yourself in other people's minds and are required to use force to maintain this ownership. And the only reason someone would disrespect another in public (or behind their back) is to increase their own reputation to those viewing the incident. This is entirely primitive and illogical--it's NTs at their worst.

Thus,
Joe90 wrote:
I get teenagers delibrately walking into me in the street, then as they approach right up to me they scream in my face for no reason... And I can never retaliate because... it's their word against mine.

You have to understand, attacking the weak is important social skill for the youth to learn. It will bode them well in their future careers as criminals/salesmen/politicians.
These kids are, in essence, practicing on how to manipulate the system to gain power. They have trained themselves on how to respond to authority figures to make it look like you're the one at fault. And, tending to be both unnecessarily honest and politically isolated, the authority figures will punish us over the manipulative kids any chance they get.

Tactically, when confronted with teens, I change my posture to "attack mode" and adopt a glowering facial pose. i.e. "I'm sizing you up to see how I can take you down." This works since I'm a guy.
Perhaps you could adopt the "I'm better than you" mode and put on a non-amused/disgusted facial pose.
Pack creatures never attack a victim that has more social power than them, so try postures variants that demonstrate social power.


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Dr_Horrible
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11 Oct 2010, 1:59 pm

I am constantly angry at myself for not performing ideally. That is just driving me to pursue my goals with increasing aggression and belligerence, if the goals are important for me. I cannot see myself fall for self-destruction, since that would run counter to my personality. I'm not a gambler, but its "Niem als kapitulieren!" here for the whole kingdom.

Anger is a powerful fuel, if it isn't mixed with defeatism and passivity.



mechanicalgirl39
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11 Oct 2010, 2:28 pm

I'm angry at myself for some stuff. Mostly I'm just angry at others.


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11 Oct 2010, 2:36 pm

AdmiralCrunch wrote:
In private, disrespect can be ignored. I prefer conflict avoidance so this is what I always do.
In public, you're required to respond. You're supposed to defend your reputation from anyone detracting it and in this case are not allowed to walk away. This is due to our society being primitive and violent; you are supposed to "own" the opinions of yourself in other people's minds and are required to use force to maintain this ownership. And the only reason someone would disrespect another in public (or behind their back) is to increase their own reputation to those viewing the incident. This is entirely primitive and illogical--it's NTs at their worst.


Generally agreeing, I just wanted to add a side-note.

If the person who is attacking you in public is an evident loon, you are not supposed to answer the challenge. If you do, it would bring no honour if you defeat him or her, and the more scorn if you are defeated. Moreover, loons generally have entire other agendas behind their attacks which cannot be brought down by the usual melee.

If you walk away from the loon, the status of the loon won't increase in the eyes of the public. Neither would it decrease, since loons are foremost below and beside the general tide of the street, and are isolated and angry segments of the population.

Thus kids. Ignore the loons.



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11 Oct 2010, 2:48 pm

I don't think I get angry at myself. I was reading other posts and trying to figure out if I do, but I honestly don't know. I'm not angry right now and that makes it really hard for me to imagine what anger feels like. Often, even when I'm in an argument I don't know how I feel. I can get worked up but I don't know if that's anger, or adrenaline or what. Sometimes I think "why did I do that?" but it feels more like exasperation than the red heat I associate with anger.

This thread confused me a little. Like trying to explain love.



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11 Oct 2010, 4:18 pm

AdmiralCrunch - thanks for advice. You have made me feel better about how teenagers behave in the street. Now when I approach teenagers in the street, I will think of what you wrote, and if the teenagers make me feel self-conscious I won't take it as personally. Thanks mate :D

But I feel very ashamed of other things, like everything I do and say. I just feel so angry with myself all the time, and I'm full of resentment. It's because I'm the only Aspie in my family, out of my many cousins, many aunts and uncles, and so on. And I really need to come to terms with this and finally accept that I'm stuck with this horrible AS, so I try telling myself over and over, ''I am normal. I'm no different to any of my cousins. I can do just as much as them, therefore am no different to them.'' But it doesn't work - I start discovering things that they've done what I can't do, like making friends easily and spending their week-ends with them, while I'm always moping about at home and missing out on my young life.
Not only that - my 16 year old cousin is a boy, but he's so laid-back and never strops about and gets wound up like I do. He just sits there relaxed - whilst there's me always so angry and miserable about something. And I can't just wave a magic wand and change my personality - it's always going to be in me, and I can't get rid of it. And I've been like it since I was about 7 or 8, (not the same as this, but I've always been the ''moany'' one), and if I just suddenly changed myself tomorrow, everyone will look at me and think, ''what's up with her? She ain't reacting at what she's always reacted over! Is she ill? Is she on some sort of drugs?'' and then they will start being spooked because I've gone from one extreme to the other, and one can't just do that. This anger is always going to be in me, even if I go on medication. I've got too set in my ways now, and everyone's so used to be that it's hard to change myself. It's more difficult than NTs think.
I'm just so angry with myself because of all the embarrassing things I have done in the past and what I still do now, and I just feel so ashamed of myself. My cry is always, ''why me? Why couldn't one of my cousins have AS too, then I won't feel so alone?! Why just only me? How come all my cousins have friends and I don't? Why me? Why are they all NTs and I'm not? Why has it got to be this way???'' And it makes me hate my family for all being NTs. I don't hate them personally - I love them all, but it just makes me feel angry with them sometimes. My nan has Alzheimer's now, and I feel she is not NT any more because she is now different to everyone else, so she is the only one I can relate to. Even my own mum doesn't always understand me and when I get into rages and start bursting into tears, she just says, ''oh you're always crying!! !! !'' But crying is my way of getting rid of all the anger, rather than lashing out and screaming.
I just cannot stop myself from feeling like this towards myself and AS, no matter how alike I feel to NTs. Usually when I'm out at work I feel normal, but when I'm at home I change and get so angry with myself.

My distant auntie had a little 4 year old girl who literally bled to death in her arms on the way to hospital because she had fell and got an ornament stuck in her throat - and that happened nearly 30 years ago, and she still hasn't got over it. Her cry is, ''oh why me? Why did my baby girl die? Why did that happen? Why only me?'' And she even sometimes resents others for never having to experience one of their kids dying - and this is exactly how I feel about having AS. It's not that she wanted that to happen to anyone else's children, and it's the same with me - it's not that I want someone else to be an Aspie, but it just makes me feel so alone sometimes, whilst all my cousins and my brother just waddle along without having these meltdowns over trivial things, and being able to manage their emotions more. My brother suffers from depression, and has poor self-esteem, but he still ain't angry with himself - he still gets on with things. He goes to work, and doesn't worry about what others are thinking of him when he's walking by himself through town, and I can honestly say he ain't nowhere near like I am - even though he's on the shy side.
I feel normal in some ways, but in other ways I feel like a complete prick.

Life must be so easy to be NT (sigh).....


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11 Oct 2010, 4:58 pm

Sparrowrose wrote:
I'm still too busy being angry at other people to be angry with myself.

Although, as I think on it, I believe I used to be angry with myself and that's what led to multiple suicide attempts in my late teens and twenties. Then I was just depressed and numb. Then I found out that have asperger's and all the anger came back except now it's directed at all those people who hurt me and drove me to a suicidal condition.

I'm angry at all the bullies who hurt me with words, boards, bleach, rocks, bottles, fists. I'm angry at all those teachers who let the bullies devour me like a tank of sharks. I'm angry at the teachers who bullied me with their words, including the teacher who put me in a cardboard box because she said it made her sick to look at me. I'm angry at the teachers for treating dysgraphia as if it were willfully bad behavior. Who decides that a child can't write legibly because they're bad?!

I'm angry at my mother for all the awful things she said and did to me. I'm angry at her for being a doctoral psychologist and *still* not understanding what was gong on with me because it was easier just to decide I was a "bad child" who was fatally flawed for some reason (not her fault!) and needed to be pushed out of her house so I didn't corrupt or harm her precious new baby. I'm angry at my father for not having enough spine to stand up to my mother and protect me from her (though he's the easiest to forgive because he also has asperger's and because he apologized to me twice in my twenties and said that he realized he had been abusive toward me.)

I'm angry at all my sexual abusers, including the family member who molested me from age 5 to age 15. I'm angry at everybody else in my family because I just discovered this year that everyone knew that he was a sexual abuser and all the other relatives protected their girl children from him but my parents did not protect me and I was even chastised when I refused to hug him, forced to give him a hug, and felt like vomiting when he fondled me sexually in that hug, right in front of the whole family!! ! And no one did anything, no one saw, no one stopped him . . but they KNEW he was a predator and forced me to hug him anyway as if nothing were amiss. I'm angry at the boy who pressured me to give him oral sex when I was 12 and continued to pressure me for sexual favors for the next three years until I left my parents' house. I'm angry with the men who took advantage of my homelessness to rape me. I'm angry with the men who took advantage of my poverty and social naivete to bring me into abusive relationships under the guise of protecting and helping me.

I'm angry at the vocational rehabilitation counselor who saw all the test results (that I now know wree a resultof asperger's, not super-craziness! We don't test well on psych evaluations like the MMPI) and told me that no one in his office could help me find employment or go to school and that I should get at least five years of therapy before I came back to his office. I'm angry at all the employers who fired me even though I came to work every day, on time, worked hard, learned my responsibilities quickly, and never had an outburst or meltdown at work. I'm angry that they would fire someone just for being different or creepy or whatever it was they didn't like about me. I'm angry at the homeless shelter for not protecting me from getting attacked on their property.

I'm sure I could go on ranting all morning, but I've made my point. There are far too many other people who are far more deserving of my anger than me. I hate to call myself a victim because I don't view myself that way, but I see so little to be angry at myself for. I was born with an alternate neurology that causes me to behave in ways that other people don't understand and don't want to be around, even when I'm in a good mood, pleasant, productive, and at my very best. I was thrown into the trash heap of life because my brain is different. I was abused for being disabled!

Why the hell should I be angry at myself? I'm not the one who went out of their way to try to squash another human being at every opportunity. I'm the one who's just trying to live my life in a confusing and often hostile world. I don't deserve my anger and, in fact, I make every attempt to give myself the love that was so long lacking in my life. I buy myself little presents. I make sure to schedule plenty of down time for myself. I congratulate myself on every milestone reached, every accomplishment attained.

I am nurturing myself and re-parenting myself and working hard to give myself every opportunity and blessing that was denied me by others. I hope some day to recover from all this anger I feel. But from the day that I learned that I was born with a different brain I have never turned my anger on myself again. Because I used to believe what people said about me being bad. But now I know the truth.


I'm so sorry all that s**t happened to you. This breaks my heart to hear.


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AdmiralCrunch
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11 Oct 2010, 11:27 pm

Joe90 wrote:
AdmiralCrunch - thanks for advice. You have made me feel better about how teenagers behave in the street. Now when I approach teenagers in the street, I will think of what you wrote, and if the teenagers make me feel self-conscious I won't take it as personally. Thanks mate :D

I'm glad I could help out; you remind me so much of myself at times.
While writing this, a song I haven't heard in a long time just came on satellite radio. It's so apropos.

I don't know what stressed me first
Or how the pressure was fed
But I know just what it feels like
To have a voice in the back of my head
It's like a face that I hold inside
A face that awakes when I close my eyes
A face watches every time I lie
A face that laughs every time I fall
(And watches everything)
So I know that when it's time to sink or swim
That the face inside is hearing me
Right underneath my skin

It's like I'm paranoid lookin' over my back
It's like a whirlwind inside of my head
It's like I can't stop what I'm hearing within
It's like the face inside is right beneath my skin
Linkin Park - "Papercut"

I feel like every pain is a tragedy sometimes too. I wish I could give you more than advice. But what I do know for a fact is that life will get easier as time goes on. Until then, here are my humble words of wisdom.

Joe90 wrote:
But I feel very ashamed of other things, like everything I do and say.

This happens to the best of us. The only thing I can do is to remind myself that we always are growing; that where we are from is far less important than where we are going. Try to think of the future and not the past.

Joe90 wrote:
I start discovering things that they've done what I can't do, like making friends easily and spending their week-ends with them, while I'm always moping about at home and missing out on my young life.

I have a bucket list of things I will eventually get to that I've been adding to since I was 12. It's rather long now. :?
But I will complete the list entirely someday.

Joe90 wrote:
But crying is my way of getting rid of all the anger, rather than lashing out and screaming.

There's nothing wrong with a prescription tear or two. If you need to let the stress out, it's as good a way as any.
Me, I chose the world of Manga, and even wrote something of a magnum opus; a universe filled with all of the people I always wished I had in my life. The type of people who would always accept me as I am, not conditionally as this universe offers. Just going back and reading it again tears at my heart, even after all this time. I am so, so glad I wrote it.
Perhaps you could find a hobby that would allow you to express yourself artistically. It will be frustrating, but will be worth the effort.

Joe90 wrote:
I feel normal in some ways, but in other ways I feel like a complete prick.

And in other ways, you're awesome. :)

I'm never giving up in my quest to find balance.
And neither should you. :P


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Joe90
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25 Oct 2010, 3:57 pm

I like the way you understand me on this forum, because I've had other Aspies putting, ''stop whinging about AS and get on with it and do something with your life.'' That isn't a very helpful thing to put to someone who really hates having a disability, because it's easy for them to turn around and say that when they're so enjoying life and ''not bothered'' if they have a disability or not. But we're all different, and you sound like you hate having it too - like me - so you're more understanding, and even if you did like having it, you'll still be understanding because you sound a considerate sort of person. :)

Aspies aren't much different to NTs in a way. Some NTs are understanding, and others are not, the same as Aspies. Some Aspies are understanding (like you), whilst others just say, ''oh get a life and shut up whinging about yourself!'' I hate when people put that sort of thing. OK, it's sometimes nice to be encouraging to someone, but not to write posts about that because they don't know what's going on in my life. For all they know, I could have been diagnosed with cancer last week and not told anyone on here, and could be feeling down and worried. They don't know that. Admittedly I am healthy, but for all they know I could be ill, or I could be suffering from manic depression, or a close relative could have died or something. I could have even lost a baby last week - they don't know a thing about me. Lucky for them I'm perfectly healthy, able-bodied and have all my relatives close and healthy, but still who do they think they are thinking they can just write off-putting replies back to me when all I'm doing is trying to express my emotions to them?

Anyway, enough with me ravelling on. Your advice was good for me, and I hope all goes well for you :D


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AdmiralCrunch
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26 Oct 2010, 11:37 pm

Joe90, check your Inbox. I need to know if you could help out with my research project.


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27 Oct 2010, 4:25 am

I am ALWAYS angry at myself. I cannot get past saying "hello" and "the weather's nice today, isn't it?" without looking like an idiot. I can meet people and yes, they like me at first, but once they get to know me more than they discover that I'm actually a complete nutter or decide that all they want from me is to see me naked.


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27 Oct 2010, 5:34 am

I am often very angry. But I don't think I am angry with myself. I think I am just angry about everything else. Other people and situations and events etc. But I don't like being angry with myself. But I am sick of being angry. I can never pin down exactly what it is I am angry about.



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27 Oct 2010, 6:03 am

I know this feelings.
When I was younger, I didn't know I have AS, so I always asked me, what's wrong with me?
Why does no one like me?
Why can't I have a normal conversation?
I felt guilty, because I thought something was terribly wrong with me. No matter to wich school I went, it took a week and I was the freak.
I hated myself for the trouble I caused and I hated me for the fact that my parents have to worry so much about me.
I can't count how many nights I lay in bed awake and asked myself the same questions over and over again.
Sometimes I still have this feeling, but since I first read about AS I feel like everything that happens in the past makes sense. That makes everything so much better, just because I know now that I'm not a bad person and that I'm not wrong.

But when I have bad days I still dislike myself.



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27 Oct 2010, 6:56 am

Robdemanc wrote:
I am often very angry. But I don't think I am angry with myself. I think I am just angry about everything else. Other people and situations and events etc. But I don't like being angry with myself. But I am sick of being angry. I can never pin down exactly what it is I am angry about.

When I was younger, I was always angry with myself because I could not do things properly, think like the others or even act like them...
But now I tend to be angry with others, think that they are the ones who are not logical, normal and smart. It is a way for me to give me some rest because I think I deserve it after 19 years of "autistic living".



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27 Oct 2010, 9:02 am

Quote:
Joe90, check your Inbox. I need to know if you could help out with my research project.


I'm not clever enough to help you, but perhaps you can find another Aspie who is cleverer like you, (and willing to get rid of their AS), like Moog?
But, still let me know how you are getting on, I will be looking out for your success, because I know you can do it.


And as for Aspies who are proud of having it, you can choose to take the cure or leave the cure. It's upto you. But my option is to take the cure.


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