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DemonAbyss10
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12 Oct 2010, 3:24 pm

Well, been trying to get a band together in my area for a while now BUT no one around plays drums. So me and the rest of the group have been thinking about using a drum machine. So heres my question.

Can anyone recommend any drum machines, preferably a computer based one thats open sourced. (Have thought about fruityloops (just to simply make a drum track in program and just play it back), but if there is any decent open source ones, I would love to know about them.)


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12 Oct 2010, 4:26 pm

Ooh, it's been a long time. If you have a VST host, you could use short circuit to trigger drum samples.

http://vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php

There's probably better out there by now.


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12 Oct 2010, 4:54 pm

Hydrogen - it will run on Linux or Mac or Windows. yay.

http://www.hydrogen-music.org/?p=download


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12 Oct 2010, 6:57 pm

Hydrogen is really easy to use, and if I remember correctly, there are quite a few sample packs (sounds) available to install as well. It's got a really decent built in mixer too.

You can export your patterns and tracks as midi files too if you ever decide to invest in a better program or drum machine.


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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Oct 2010, 9:00 am

Even a cheap sampler/sequencer would be fine. You might need to go crate diving for samples, there are sample cds all over the place that you can buy but its up to you whether you'd rather do that, grab at some free stuff, or go through the cds you have for drum breakdowns or intros and see how well you can do at chopping those up.



DemonAbyss10
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16 Oct 2010, 11:05 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Even a cheap sampler/sequencer would be fine. You might need to go crate diving for samples, there are sample cds all over the place that you can buy but its up to you whether you'd rather do that, grab at some free stuff, or go through the cds you have for drum breakdowns or intros and see how well you can do at chopping those up.



That's the thing though. Cheap really isnt that cheap at the moment due to various financial situations for the 4 of us in the group at the moment. Regardless though, our main songwriter is rather enjoying Hydrogen, so thanks for the recommendation.

Now we have got to save up for actual recording gear :/


for those interested in current band lineup though... Not including names, due to fellow bandmate requesting some privacy with it.

Lead Guitar/Lead Male Vocals
Me - Rhythm Guitarist/Vocals (starting to work on my leads some more however. I tend to do vocals for some of the more heavier stuff since I can do most of it right other than the higher pitched screams.)
Bassist
Keyboardist/Female Vocals

Current genre is a mix though. Sometimes we will play regular rock, sometimes we will play various forms of metal. We still can't agree on a sound, so I dont know how long the band will last. I myself will give it another month or 2.


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17 Oct 2010, 2:05 am

Drumkit From Hell, though it's pricey.


http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=11



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17 Oct 2010, 11:51 pm

Peruse the local bookstore chains for mags like Computer Music, etc. Usually a whole free CD's worth of free software (aviod demos; they only work for a few weeks.)
Check for VSTs andmusic in google, there's lots of sites to download there.


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20 Oct 2010, 12:00 pm

What YOU need is the Rebirth app for iPhone.

http://rebirthapp.com/

I'm a big fan of propellerhead's software. I'm REALLY not happy that they no longer make the original software available with Reason. But on the other hand, the Reason software is phenomenal enough, and you can make the same sounds with a little programming savvy.

I'm more of an anti-technology person, favoring vintage computing and musical instruments over the "latest-greatest." Owning a MacBook Pro is more out of necessity than desire, but I'm never without it.

The Rebirth app makes me want to get an iPhone if for no other reason than to run the app.

Here's another suggestion that I've found helpful in my own music: Any time I perform live, I worry less about having an actual drum machine and more about having a pre-programmed track that is exactly the length and form I need. As long as I have no reason to deviate from what I'm doing, the track is always perfect. I also use hardware with multiple outputs so I can include a click track. There's nothing like playing piano solo for a while when a full orchestra just magically comes in at the perfect time. Make your stereo mixes such that you have a mono mix from one side (that people will actually hear) and a click track with or without the mix on the other side, which only you will hear. Stereo mixes are normally desirable, but not often practical in a live performance with a band. So relying on two separate mono mixes in a live setting can work to your advantage.

As for free software: Look into Audacity. Good stuff. Really professional considering that it is free!! !

If you can save up some money in the meantime, though, you really need to look into stuff like Ableton or Digital Performer. Programs like that and Logic Mainstage offer looping, so you can program loop sequences for choruses, bridges, intros/endings, and so on. What that allows you to do is an interactive performance in which you aren't limited strictly to doing the song the same way every time. If you want to sing a couple of more choruses than what you normally do in rehearsal, just keep tapping the chorus loop until you're ready for the ending. You can put your keyboard player in charge of that if you want. That kind of stuff is pricey, like $500 for the entire Apple Logic package, and that's assuming you already have an upper-line Apple computer like a MBP. Personally, I wish Mainstage was available as a separate program. If you REALLY want to replace a drummer, any one of those programs will be the way to go. And like I said, I also use Reason, which is only $300. For $400, you get the Record duo, which adds recording and manipulating audio to the Reason sequencer.

Seriously, if you can handle working at McDonald's for a few months and save up the money for it, getting the good stuff is well worth the effort. As soon as I was out of college and had a couple of "real" jobs, the first thing I did was scour ebay for some good keyboards, upgrade my computer, and eventually get new computers, new instruments, upgrades, and one FINE piece of vintage equipment which has taken my composing/songwriting to a whole new level--although my composing is going more in the direction of handbell music for church. Still, success is success. Do what you have to do, pay some dues, and you'll have a really good thing going with your band. The free stuff will only get you so far. I went that route for a while and I found it to only be one headache after another.

Apple's Garageband? I thought I could get by with it because it came with the computer. HUGE disappointment. Keep your eyes on the prize, man.



techstepgenr8tion
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20 Oct 2010, 4:26 pm

AngelRho wrote:
What YOU need is the Rebirth app for iPhone.

http://rebirthapp.com/

They'd use that for a band? I think they're doing rock not acid techno.



techstepgenr8tion
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20 Oct 2010, 4:28 pm

DemonAbyss10 wrote:
That's the thing though. Cheap really isnt that cheap at the moment due to various financial situations for the 4 of us in the group at the moment. Regardless though, our main songwriter is rather enjoying Hydrogen, so thanks for the recommendation.

Sounds good. I guess I didn't necessarily mean offboard/hardware, I've heard a lot about freeware sequencers out there. The only thing you may want to see if you can find for free is something that add color to samples, phatten up the drums, get them sounding either more accoustic or, if you have a strong and specific mood to your music, you can tailor the drums to have that kind of feel through the right filters and pitch-shifting.



DemonAbyss10
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20 Oct 2010, 4:32 pm

AngelRho wrote:
What YOU need is the Rebirth app for iPhone.

http://rebirthapp.com/

I'm a big fan of propellerhead's software. I'm REALLY not happy that they no longer make the original software available with Reason. But on the other hand, the Reason software is phenomenal enough, and you can make the same sounds with a little programming savvy.

I'm more of an anti-technology person, favoring vintage computing and musical instruments over the "latest-greatest." Owning a MacBook Pro is more out of necessity than desire, but I'm never without it.

The Rebirth app makes me want to get an iPhone if for no other reason than to run the app.

Here's another suggestion that I've found helpful in my own music: Any time I perform live, I worry less about having an actual drum machine and more about having a pre-programmed track that is exactly the length and form I need. As long as I have no reason to deviate from what I'm doing, the track is always perfect. I also use hardware with multiple outputs so I can include a click track. There's nothing like playing piano solo for a while when a full orchestra just magically comes in at the perfect time. Make your stereo mixes such that you have a mono mix from one side (that people will actually hear) and a click track with or without the mix on the other side, which only you will hear. Stereo mixes are normally desirable, but not often practical in a live performance with a band. So relying on two separate mono mixes in a live setting can work to your advantage.

As for free software: Look into Audacity. Good stuff. Really professional considering that it is free!! !

If you can save up some money in the meantime, though, you really need to look into stuff like Ableton or Digital Performer. Programs like that and Logic Mainstage offer looping, so you can program loop sequences for choruses, bridges, intros/endings, and so on. What that allows you to do is an interactive performance in which you aren't limited strictly to doing the song the same way every time. If you want to sing a couple of more choruses than what you normally do in rehearsal, just keep tapping the chorus loop until you're ready for the ending. You can put your keyboard player in charge of that if you want. That kind of stuff is pricey, like $500 for the entire Apple Logic package, and that's assuming you already have an upper-line Apple computer like a MBP. Personally, I wish Mainstage was available as a separate program. If you REALLY want to replace a drummer, any one of those programs will be the way to go. And like I said, I also use Reason, which is only $300. For $400, you get the Record duo, which adds recording and manipulating audio to the Reason sequencer.

Seriously, if you can handle working at McDonald's for a few months and save up the money for it, getting the good stuff is well worth the effort. As soon as I was out of college and had a couple of "real" jobs, the first thing I did was scour ebay for some good keyboards, upgrade my computer, and eventually get new computers, new instruments, upgrades, and one FINE piece of vintage equipment which has taken my composing/songwriting to a whole new level--although my composing is going more in the direction of handbell music for church. Still, success is success. Do what you have to do, pay some dues, and you'll have a really good thing going with your band. The free stuff will only get you so far. I went that route for a while and I found it to only be one headache after another.

Apple's Garageband? I thought I could get by with it because it came with the computer. HUGE disappointment. Keep your eyes on the prize, man.


I just dont use apple products. More of a windows and linux user, and I dont have a smartphone or anything of that sort, since I felt absolutely no point to owning one. Audacity is a program I love, especially if I want to emulate FX pedals I dont have, just to see how something can work out for me. Wish my breakout box didn't get fried on my old computer though, had midi in/outs and everything else I needed.


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DemonAbyss10
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20 Oct 2010, 4:34 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
What YOU need is the Rebirth app for iPhone.

http://rebirthapp.com/

They'd use that for a band? I think they're doing rock not acid techno.



yeah, variants of rock and metal, covering most of the spectrum other than more "poppy" sounding stuff. Mostly leaning towards prog/gothic styled rock and metal.


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techstepgenr8tion
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20 Oct 2010, 4:38 pm

DemonAbyss10 wrote:
yeah, variants of rock and metal, covering most of the spectrum other than more "poppy" sounding stuff. Mostly leaning towards prog/gothic styled rock and metal.

808 and 909 samples, at least if you want them, are a dime a dozen. You might be using some of that, though yeah - I'd additionally grab tropical percussion as well as breakbeat hits if you can; depending on how moody you're planning on getting with it. Standard clean acoustic though for primary will be a must.



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20 Oct 2010, 9:25 pm

DemonAbyss10 wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
What YOU need is the Rebirth app for iPhone.

http://rebirthapp.com/

They'd use that for a band? I think they're doing rock not acid techno.



yeah, variants of rock and metal, covering most of the spectrum other than more "poppy" sounding stuff. Mostly leaning towards prog/gothic styled rock and metal.


Yeah, but still... NIN is all over that kind of stuff.

Incidentally, I've been composing a pretty lengthy tune for handbells and orchestra, and there will be a kind of "cinematic" synth track going along with that. I made my own percussion samples using a Roland aJuno-1. You can get 'em on the cheap with eBay less than $200, you get a nice, phat analog sound, not really unlike the 808 if you're an open-minded enough programmer. I approach synths more as a sound designer rather than a preset-tweaker (though there's nothing wrong with that, either) and am proud to say all the sounds I use really are mine (exception: We're too cheap to hire all the string players I'd need, so unfortunately my track will have to include sampled string sections. On the other hand, the Synclav WAS the best string machine around before VSL). I initially sampled my Juno drums to the Synclav after using some effects in Logic (mainly a convolution reverb and little else), and then sampled the Synclav output to ReDrum for tighter manipulation (basic drum machine kinda stuff) and pattern programming. Eventually I'll get a finished product combining my "real" instruments with Reason and Logic. I'm just crazy enough that I do MOST of my sequencing on the 'clav rather than in Logic, but I've never found another sequencer quite as intuitive as the 'clav. The most important thing for live performance, though, is that you build enough loops, regardless of what you do, that you can build your actual performance "on the fly." Ableton is SO much more advanced than anything I've used to date in terms of what you can do on stage. I guess I'm just too old to get into it. But don't take those techno or acid kinds of sounds for granted.

I love old 80's music, probably more than anything else out there. But I really do find people like Trent Reznor and Evanescence (and even The Fallen, for that matter) to be immensely inspiring. There's PLENTY of room for innovation and growth in goth/prog music still.

If you MUST do without a drummer, take it a step further. You can't really replace a living human being, but drum machines and loop players give you SO many more options than plain, old, oogga-chahcka kinds of beats. I really LOVE those more "cinematic"-sounding loops, and if you are writing/recording your own demos, I'd LOVE to hear what you could do with that kind of thing. If you like, I could send (PM me for email, etc.) you some of the percussion effects I have so far. A word of warning though: My analog toms are VERY 80's pop sounding, so I wouldn't recommend trying to use those very much!

Good luck, and PLEASE get some stuff of your band on youtube sometime if you haven't already! I think I speak for most of us that we'd enjoy seeing/hearing what you do.



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21 Oct 2010, 9:58 pm

Lol....ok, if we're giving offers of personal opinion this is mine - I really hate how a lot of newer industrial, seems like almost all of it, sounds like 1993 trance/techno with a guy screaming over it. Mainly that the beatwork is entirely old, uninspired, makes it sounds like utter garbage.

What I'm dying to see is someone use the old Skinny Puppy motif with new sounds and in newer ways. Fragments of new skool gangster rap (beats like the one under Let Me In by Youngbuck seems perfect for it), bits of dubstep, IDM, dub techno, jazz, ambient, new age, crash it all in to each other, sometimes - quite literally - crash, get things trainwrecking into each other methodically to intensify the mood, distorted train-whistles at the right off-signature spots, liquid noise baths, that kind of thing.

To go that route, having a decent computer sampler is great (sounds like you may already have it), from there - just start grabbing records. Any time you hear of a dj on Craigslist getting rid of a whole bunch of hip hop, electronic, jazz, soul, or r n' b records - if they're going at bargrain rate grab em. Chop, paste, skew, make a big sickening collage. Just make sure you're vocalist has enough grit in both vocals and song writing to fill that order. If you're not sure how its done, again, listen to Last Rights a few times through - that'll set you on point :). Then again, do as they do - just don't try to have your stuff feel just like theirs, that's when it stops being forward thinking.

Not that you have to take my suggestion - I'm just dying to hear someone do it. :cry: