Employers valuing experience more than education......

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I know I could have definitely been less forceful with that, but it does get irritating when everyone lumps a whole damn country together like that. That is also on top of the migraine im having (falling asleep is impossible, even with my meds for it :/). So yeah, I will apologize a bit for being a bit too forceful, but apologies really dont do crap IMO, since the error already happened.

Also in my post you quoted, I added yet another thing I forgot to mention, which I will sum up really quick.

Too many graduates in a specific field -> more competition for said position -> harder to find work due to employers seeking someone in-between fresh and extremely experienced. That simple fact wont change.

I've managed to get myself a six week internship, hopefully at Goldman Sachs, next year, so everything's coming together for me nicely already

Anyway, you don't prove yourself in school. You do some tests, and I've always hated how the result of a few tests determines the rest of your life, so it's good to see they're looking at other things too.

Also remember, it's hard for anyone to get a job in this economy.

you basically summed up all that I said in easy on the emotions form.

Tbh, America is built on some of the ideas that are part of the British character. The British have always valued experience over education, because they're a pragmatic people. Education in this country was really more the pursuit of gentlemen bettering themselves...it's not like in some continental countries where it's institutionalised in every trade. French kids all stay in school until they're 18 (it's 16 over here), and go to technical college if they don't go to lycee. On the continent, the proportions of uni graduates are much, much higher than in Britain, or indeed, the USA.

Whilst I was pointing out something that's part of American culture, it's also part of British culture.

I think, added to this, American culture is also a pioneer culture that values hands-on stuff and doesn't really trust big institutions, like academia, for example. I don't call that being backwards hicks, I think it's just having an over-romanticisation of 'life-experience' and character-building exercises. That's why sport plays such a big part in American education - because education over there is built on a (philosophically) Romantic model, which is how education in this country used to be when it wall all boys in ancient schools. I think this model of education overvalues 'character' and undervalues knowledge.

Education in other countries runs off a different philosophical model. Education on the continent is more technical, and thus, qualifications are more respected there.

Also, I would like a surgeon operating on me to be experienced - but by the time they are working in that role, they've usually worked in other supporting roles. I do think graduates shouldn't be disheartened to accept more junior positions, and that you need to work your way up in any career. However, I still think gaining an academic degree is undervalued by many employers, in both of our countries.

I can't get anything it seems like.

But Education is somewhat Experience.

Even if you have Experience in a certain field, it doesn't mean you'll know how to work that job. It just means you have experience. Everyone should be given equal opportunity to gain the experience.

I think it's ret*d to not hire someone because they have no experience. The point of any job is to gain experience. So, shouldn't jobs do more to acknowledge people are trying to build their experience base?

They should start from the bottom up. and you have it a bit backwards IMO. EXPERIENCE IMPLIES YOU KNOW HOW TO WORK THE JOB IN THIS CASE. The degree just illustrates you know the concepts.

I disagree. Yes, the degree shows you understand the concepts. But to gain the actual experience, you need the job for the experience. So you know the experience they are looking for. And that way you can build experience.

That logic can fall into education.

If schools K-12, only let you through education standpoint....no one could gain the education they needed to get into the grade.

Thus a job only letting you through experience standpoint...no one can gain the experience needed to get into the job

Sometimes, experience comes from being given the job to understand the job hands on.

Yet they should still have to start from the bottom IMO, as in an assistant role of sorts until they have enough experience to either lead the group or work more or less independantly.

I don't mind being an assistant first. What annoys me is I can't even get an entry-level job. Hell, I can't even get interviews for entry-level jobs.

This right here.

Me three.

Now that is one thing that WOULD bug me. I feel that at least the people in question SHOULD get at least an interview.

The problem is the ease of going to college. Really, anyone can go and get a degree, and that makes the value of education lower. It's rarity made it sought after. Also, with few schools, only the best and brightest were admitted. Now that schools are popping up everywhere to sell degrees, the quality of education has declined. The average graduate knows little more than how to research a topic, do a report and give citations. Critical thinking is disappearing, and "job skills" is laughable at best. Most stuff you learn in school is already outdated by the time you look for a job.

Most people learned jobs by learning on the job. If you were hard working and had an aptitude for the skill, they'd train you in exchange for a low salary.

Today, everyone has degrees...or at least to the point that they no longer distinguish the better job candidate. So, now they look for experience. I can't begin to go off on how idiotic it is to pay for an education and then still need relevant experience to get the job. If you had the experience, the education would be irrelevant in the first place, and there certainly are not enough "experience opportunities" for everyone going to college.

Damn....I can't believe how many Aspies here are anti-formal education. I realize some people are just saying "this is how it is, not necessarily how it should be," but I thought I would find more people identifying with my situation.

First of all, at least in the U.S., there's still a lot more people without degrees than with them. Among the over-25 crowd, less than 40% have associates, less than 30% have bachelors, and only 10% have advanced degrees. If getting a degree is as easy as you make it out to be, how come so many people DROP OUT?

Second, I don't where you went to school, but I learned substantially more than just researching a topic and writing a paper on it. I learned critical thinking, time management, speaking, and writing/proof-reading skills moreso than I did at any job I've had (and I have had full-time jobs in the past).

The point of a job is to gain experience only for the employee. To the employer, that is never the point of a job. To the employer, the point of a job is to get some specific task done. This is why employers value experience. It means they have some assurance that the person they hire will be able to get the task done. They have no such assurance if all they have to go on is a degree. To make yourself appealing to an employer, you have to look at what's in it for them, not what's in it for you.