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mom2hfason
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18 Oct 2010, 12:31 pm

Not sure if this topic is off-limits here, or if I'd be better served posting in the school forum... but here goes:

My son is 9 and has an educational diagnosis of high functioning autism (presents as Aspergers) and ADHD combined type. He's in 4th grade this year. In school his homeroom is a self-contained autism cluster unit, but he primarily mainstreams in a regular ed classroom.

My little guy is very intelligent and I do think he'll do well in life.

With that being said, he has a tremendous amount of trouble completing any school work and always has. I've been told he is passively non-compliant. He will sit and draw all over his school work. If pushed, he is able to start his work, but you basically have to sit over his shoulder and supervise him if you want him to complete it. He is very easily distracted, and probably more to the point he just doesn't WANT to do it. In his words, it looks too hard, or is too much, or he doesn't know what to do. In reality he CAN do the work, and usually very quickly if there's something in it for him. It can be draining getting him to do homework at night and that's just me and him, so I can see how his teachers are not able to get him to do anything when they have so much else on their plates. We have a routine each night and it seems to help. He has a little downtime after school. Around 4:30 I pull out the backpack and he has to sit at the table and work on whatever he brought home until it's complete. I'll hover nearby and assist as needed. If I leave the room he will usually stop working. Getting him started is the hardest part because he needs a drink, and then he needs to go to the bathroom, and then he needs to sharpen his pencil, and then he needs to pet the cat, and then he needs to... well, anything but get started. Oh, and he seems to prefer working with me because he is 'allowed' to refuse to do work at school and it will come home with a note at the top that says he wanted to work on it at home.

In the past I've felt significant pressure (both internal and external) to get him to be more compliant and be able to perform like the other children. This year and last the school he's at has a very hands-off approach. It's easy for me to let the issue slide because no one is complaining. I'm worried about his future and how the upper grades are going to be when he no longer has the security of his autism cluster unit....

Anyway, I decided to take matters into my hands and see if an independent doctor found the same diagnosis as the school and see what he/she would recommend. I took my son to see a child psychiatrist. I sent in his psycho-educational assessment and testing results and completed the new patient intake paperwork. We met for roughly an hour to discuss the kinds of issues I'm seeing. My son was there and answered a few questions but mostly just did his thing. I told the doctor that I worried about his anxiety levels and that my reason for bringing him in is to see if there's a medication to help him be more successful at starting and completing work in class so he can feel confident enough to start doing it without the help of medication.

The doctor looked over everything, asked questions and said he could go either way on a med choice. He thought my son could benefit from stimulants but because I suggested concerns about OCD type issues and anxiety he said he could also do a trial with a low dose of Zoloft.

My husband and I keep going back and forth on whether we should medicate or just accept things the way they are. I did start him on the medication 4-days ago. I know it will take a few weeks to see any change. I'm definitely worried about what the medication will do to his developing brain. I'm worried about permanent damage. I'm also worried about what will happen if we never get a handle on his school issues. He's already dealing with rejection from his 'neurotypical' peers because they can tell he's different.

Has anyone here been able to get a handle on similar school issues without medication? Has anyone medicated with Zoloft and found it helped with OCD type issues and anxiety? My husband always says, he's just like I was when I was a kid and I turned out OK. It's so hard to know what decision to make.



leejosepho
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18 Oct 2010, 12:53 pm

mom2hfason wrote:
In the past I've felt significant pressure (both internal and external) to get him to be more compliant and be able to perform like the other children ...
I told the doctor ... my reason for bringing him in is to see if there's a medication to help him be more successful ... so he can [eventually] feel confident enough to start doing it without the help of medication ...

He thought my son could benefit from stimulants but ... he said he could also do a trial with a low dose of Zoloft ...

I'm definitely worried about what the medication will do to his developing brain ... about permanent damage.

There is the bottom line, and I am one who altogether rejects the lock-step idea of "get him to be more compliant and be able to perform like the other children". Your son is who he is, and drugs can only confuse that.


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18 Oct 2010, 1:23 pm

Oh my, I cannot express enough how much your son sounds just like my daughter when it comes to school work. You have very succinctly put what I have been unable to put into words very, very well.

I just wanted to caution you that my daughter was put on Zoloft for anxiety a year ago. At first, it seemed to work really well. A lot of her anxiety seemed lowered and she seemed "more present" than she had been as I assume she was withdrawing due to anxiety.

HOWEVER, about 90 days into the Zoloft it just stopped working. She became agitated, emotional and actively withdrawn again. They upped the dosage and that's when everything really started to get bad. She had an extremely violent episode (attacked a peer) when she had previously not been violent. She started having mood swings and OCD behaviors such as tapping her dresser drawers after getting something out, hand washing, and counting all the time. We took her off the Zoloft and she had these residual OCD and Bipolar type behaviors for 6 more months. We are just now starting to get "back to normal".

This might not occur in your son's case but you should be aware that IT CAN occur. SSRIs can "activate" Bipolar and worsen OCD traits in some kids.

Some people here have had good results using Inositol, a natural supplement. I must say it did lessen my daughter's anxiety problems somewhat.

I tend to be of the mindset that these anxiety issues are part of their neurological functioning issues. If you take a moment to think of how different they perceive and experience the simplest of things, you can see WHY there would naturally be anxiety and withdrawing. So, therefore, an SSRI, which is used to treat an imbalance of seratonin is not necessarily the proper path of treatment, in my non medical opinion. Perhaps they don't have an imbalance of seratonin, but a processing/perception issue that leads to the anxiety. I am sorry there is not a pill that can help those types of issues. It is simply bettered by time and lessening of the "triggers".

I will also say that my daughter improved greatly with a modified diet. There are opinions both sides of this but it is the most remarkable "improvement" I have seen in my daughter's behaviors/moods/attention than anything else I've tried (and we have tried A LOT). A fellow mother of a peer of my daughter's put it very succinctly when she told me "She's a totally different child now". The improvement is that great. Of course it was in combination with reducing triggers and working very hard at understanding my daughter. We withdrew all artificial colors/flavors/preservatives/sweeteners/enhancers. It helped with her frustration tolerance greatly.

Good luck on your decision, I know it is a hard one.



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18 Oct 2010, 1:36 pm

leejosepho wrote:
There is the bottom line, and I am one who altogether rejects the lock-step idea of "get him to be more compliant and be able to perform like the other children". Your son is who he is, and drugs can only confuse that.


A very enthusiastic second to that!

As for the school issues, you might as well be describing me forty-two years ago, except that I wasn't diagnosed. I was labeled a genius, and I was legally blind, which two factors helped me to - barely - survive the school system. Although that survival came with a lot of scars. I went into first grade already reading Reader's Digest. But I was forced to go to school and sit there anyway. And when they finally admitted that I was too smart to be doing the work I was supposed to be doing, they decided not to promote me ahead because I wasn't "emotionally mature" enough. So I got bullied, by teachers as well as students, and I hid most of the worst of it from my parents, just as your son will if he isn't already. (Why? Because you learn all the fuss does you very little real good, and a lot of real harm.) And I never did learn to be "emotionally mature", not in school, not among a bunch of kids who I had almost nothing in common with.

Isn't the answer obvious? He's bored, for God's sake! (Sorry; I'm not trying to jump on you, but I'm frustrated at all the damage the education "professionals" did to my life, because they were too stupid to see the obvious.) Forcing myself to do work that boring was harder than doing really hard work would have been.

And if he's really smart? He'll learn to - just barely - do enough to skate through. Depending on how much of a pompous air bag his teacher is, and how much they have at least a lick of sense, he may even learn a little from a very few classes. Perhaps five percent of the time I spent in school, I learned something. The rest of the time, depending on the teacher, I did just enough to keep from flunking, or I did really well because it didn't take much effort. And that ninety-five percent of the time I wasted, what did it teach me? To be lazy. It took me years to face that fact, and I still haven't managed to completely unlearn that little lesson, thanks to the formal educational system. (I just gave you a few highlights here, not even all of those. One of the teachers at my high school went on to be the superintendent of the school system where Phoebe Prince hung herself... I could have written his "cover my bureaucratic butt" lines myself. Formal education can never and will never do anything but destroy a kid like your son. I hate that. I wish I had an answer to at least save some other kid like me from all I suffered. But I don't.)


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18 Oct 2010, 1:36 pm

leejosepho wrote:
There is the bottom line, and I am one who altogether rejects the lock-step idea of "get him to be more compliant and be able to perform like the other children". Your son is who he is, and drugs can only confuse that.


A very enthusiastic second to that!

As for the school issues, you might as well be describing me forty-two years ago, except that I wasn't diagnosed. I was labeled a genius, and I was legally blind, which two factors helped me to - barely - survive the school system. Although that survival came with a lot of scars. I went into first grade already reading Reader's Digest. But I was forced to go to school and sit there anyway. And when they finally admitted that I was too smart to be doing the work I was supposed to be doing, they decided not to promote me ahead because I wasn't "emotionally mature" enough. So I got bullied, by teachers as well as students, and I hid most of the worst of it from my parents, just as your son will if he isn't already. (Why? Because you learn all the fuss does you very little real good, and a lot of real harm.) And I never did learn to be "emotionally mature", not in school, not among a bunch of kids who I had almost nothing in common with.

Isn't the answer obvious? He's bored, for God's sake! (Sorry; I'm not trying to jump on you, but I'm frustrated at all the damage the education "professionals" did to my life, because they were too stupid to see the obvious.) Forcing myself to do work that boring was harder than doing really hard work would have been.

And if he's really smart? He'll learn to - just barely - do enough to skate through. Depending on how much of a pompous air bag his teacher is, and how much they have at least a lick of sense, he may even learn a little from a very few classes. Perhaps five percent of the time I spent in school, I learned something. The rest of the time, depending on the teacher, I did just enough to keep from flunking, or I did really well because it didn't take much effort. And that ninety-five percent of the time I wasted, what did it teach me? To be lazy. It took me years to face that fact, and I still haven't managed to completely unlearn that little lesson, thanks to the formal educational system. (I just gave you a few highlights here, not even all of those. One of the teachers at my high school went on to be the superintendent of the school system where Phoebe Prince hung herself... I could have written his "cover my bureaucratic butt" lines myself. :twisted: Formal education can never and will never do anything but destroy a kid like your son. I hate that. I wish I had an answer to at least save some other kid like me from all I suffered. But I don't.)


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leejosepho
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18 Oct 2010, 1:43 pm

Mama_to_Grace wrote:
I tend to be of the mindset that these anxiety issues are part of their neurological functioning issues. If you take a moment to think of how different they perceive and experience the simplest of things ...

... such as even this:

mom2hfason wrote:
... he has a tremendous amount of trouble completing any school work ...
If pushed, he is able to start his work, but ...
He is very easily distracted, and probably ... just doesn't WANT to do it ... [unless] there's something in it for him ...
... he needs a drink, and then he needs to go to the bathroom, and then he needs to sharpen his pencil, and then he needs to pet the cat, and then he needs to... well, anything but get started.

He simply sees no real purpose, need or ultimate "reward", and that makes doing the work quite illogical. He still certainly needs to learn, of course, but the "hands on" part needs to be uniquely challenging and fulfilling in line with his particular "bent".


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18 Oct 2010, 1:58 pm

At least for my daughter it is not boredom with things. On the contrary, the things she avoids/withdraws/meltsdown on are the things she finds confusing or difficult. She doesn't read well so word problems & essays are #1 cause of this (especially when they involve executive functioning). Give her a math worksheet and she will do it because she feels successful at it. But she is very resistent to "new" concepts such as now instead of "462 + 321 = _____" They are doing "______ - 321 = 462". Just the fact that they turned the equation around causes her the inability to "shift" to the new way of thinking about the problem. No matter how many times I can turn the problem around to the way that shows her she knows the answer-she still is agitated, withdrawn, and unable to "get it". Right now we're dealing with "Function Machines". Eventhough she has the capability of understanding and computing the problem, the way they've given it a new complicated, confusing name and reversed some of the problems (as well as using x and y for the unknown) has caused some unpleasant nights and days for her.

Sorry if this is off topic OP.



adora
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18 Oct 2010, 1:59 pm

Well, it sounds like he needs a goal to work for. My son's EC teacher has my son working for Hot Wheels cars. He gets so much money for completing his tasks (monopoly money), and she has 2 or 3 cars he can "buy" when he earns enough money.
What is your child's special interest? Have them integrate that as a reward or goal to work toward, so he'll want to do his work.


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18 Oct 2010, 2:39 pm

The homework issues you've described are highly common. And not specific to AS. Your child is the perfect age for the protocol my son's 3rd grade teacher gave us, and that is the one I would work with first before going to medication. We've done this with both my AS son and my NT daughter and it works. Not to say there are never ups and downs, particularly since both my kids have a whole pallet of issues that can interfere with effective homework time, but to say that it definitely taught them how to sit down, focus, and get it done.

The protocol? There is a time limit to the homework. Once your child has spent the proscribed amount of time reasonably well focused on the homework, he is signed out by the parent, for FULL CREDIT, whether or not he has actually completed the assignment. While middle school won't accept that protocol, there is NO good reason for an elementary school teacher not to, and I would ask for permission to use it. The thing is, the child sees no end to that pile. He doesn't know how long it will take, or when it will be done. After years of practice he'll start to have a feel for it, but in 4th grade he has none. It just stretches out in front of him like an endless nightmare, which makes him afraid to even start it. So, you define a clear end. It can be broken into pieces, but there is always a known end. Having that defined end was such a turn around for my son, it was amazing, and once he left elementary school he had no problem functioning without it; by then he had learned how to sit down and just do it.

My NT daughter is funny, because she is our perfectionist. Once she gets started and focused, you can tell her time is up, and she'll beg to finish (which, of course, she may). The days she has wanted the sign out have been the ones I would have to bluntly tell her, "you may have had that piece of paper in front of you for an hour, but you haven't paid any attention to it, so, no, you don't meet the requirements for a sign out." It's not a free pass; there is an action required on their part: stay reasonably focused for X amount of time. In many ways that was harder for my daughter, because I sincerely believe she is ADD, but she, too, has learned to pull it together by the gift of knowing when the end is.

Elementary school is the time to experiment with homework, and learning methods in general. Homework isn't that important, and their grades are not that important. No learning takes place from homework; it is supposed to be about developing good habits and it is supposed to be practice, a way to affirm that day's lessons. If drugs will be needed in middle school, that will be another story; things start to count then, and your options are more limited. If your child is afraid to step out the door, that is also another issue. If your child is not making progress towards learning to read, also a serious concern. But I didn't read anything in your post (which obviously isn't the whole story) that made me feel you've run out of options, or that you are dealing with something horribly immediate. You haven't and, if the biggest issue is homework, you aren't. Talk with the teachers and experiment. And get permission to take control of the homework: the ability to sign out foremost, and even the ability to modify it if they agreeable (we got that, too, and it was nice, and essential at times, but not the same consistent tool that the time limit was).

Rereading you mention similar issues with in-class work, but the teachers can use the same sort of thing, which all my children's teachers have. If you stay focused and work on it, it will be OK you are not done.

One thing to remember that your AS child is likely to be a few years developmentally behind on a skill like focusing and completing work. We wouldn't drug a K child to get him to complete a 1 page report; we would cut the assignment. In many situations, that will be what your child may need, as well: for people to stop expecting behavior that he has not yet developmentally grown into. Holding him back absolutely would NOT be the answer; modifying work IS. When they get to middle and high school there are other ways for schools to accommodate the maturity gap, via study hall /academic support, etc., so don't fret about your child falling off pace and not having the skills he'll need when he advances. You can't force him to be ready if he isn't going to be, regardless, so focus on how to teach him the skills he needs, and get used to working with him at home on developmental skills the school has already moved past.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 18 Oct 2010, 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mom2hfason
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18 Oct 2010, 2:44 pm

adora - finding a goal that motivates is a constant challenge - what works one day doesn't always work the next, or even from one minute to another... it totally depends on what is being asked of him. Plus the teachers just aren't going to put that much effort into him. Last week he asked me if he could earn a quarter for every completed worksheet. He's trying to save money to buy Lego sets. I emailed both of his teachers and asked if they would be willing to use that reinforcer and if they were willing, would they please send home the number of worksheets he completed each day. They both emailed back saying they were happy to help but neither sent home a # amount of completed worksheets (graded or just noted on his daily tracker sheet). I would follow-up, but what's the point? I warned my son ahead of time that it's not terribly realistic to expect them to do that for him. I'm thinking about sending in 'punch cards' so he can be responsible for making sure they are aware of and counting the work he completes... it's on my list of to-do items this week. I hate to push things because my experience tells me that if they start to pay more attention to him they'll only notice the negative things, and then they'll start to get frustrated and it starts a downward spiral.

Mama_to_Grade - I tried 5htp and wanted to start him on Inositol but I didn't see it at the pharmacy. I stopped giving him 5htp about a week before starting him on Zoloft. He did have a strange side effect on the 5htp - he said it made him feel really hot. Your daughter's experience with Zoloft is right up there on my list of fears of medicating. I don't think there's a lot I can do with his diet right now. He's an extremely picky eater. I can only work on so much at any given time.

My son is also resistant to new concepts and I can go nutty sometimes trying to help him 'get it' on some things. When he has a hard time 'getting it' he starts playing around and will tune me out. But boredom can also play a part. He had a worksheet to fill out about clouds. I pulled up all the information he needed and he basically just had to copy from my laptop screen to his worksheet and it took him about 20 minutes (and a ton of prompting) to do it.



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18 Oct 2010, 3:49 pm

Another note: having taken Zoloft myself for post-partum depression, I would suggest the benefits are mostly from sleeping more and better. Plus it cleared out what I used to call the worm thoughts; ugly concepts that would lodge in my head and that I couldn't let go of. Lack of sleep, and constantly thinking about things you don't want to think about will obviously interfere with the ability to focus and get things done, so removing those certainly helped my productivity and coping. But that is a really indirect path, and studies are showing that these drugs actually perform no better than placebos in curing the ills they are meant to cure (which I believe, since I felt "cured" way before the drugs were supposed to have taken effect, and that would have been because I felt I was now holding a life ring). The support for their use is entirely anecdotal at this point, from people who believed they helped. And, certainly, they do something. But I'm not convinced it is the something you are looking for; your child will get a much better life long tool in learning natural ways to cope.

There are children on this board for which various medications can almost literally be said to have saved their life, and I know the value of having that option. But each time we thought we were at that point, we were able to find a different lifeline, and sometimes my son just grew up a little. You've got to be absolutely sure you need a lifeline, and that this is the only one out there. These medications are very, very difficult to go off of (believe me, I know!).

Whatever decision you make, everyone here will support you. I'm making a sales pitch, not a judgment. I hope you understand that.


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mom2hfason
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20 Oct 2010, 4:13 pm

thanks DW for your posts - I didn't see either of them until today.

I had an IEP meeting at the school a few weeks ago and I complained about the lack of communication between me, and his two primary teachers. I suggested the teachers actually speak to one another about what is coming home in his backpack vs what's supposed to be coming home in his backpack. They admitted they hadn't actually talked to one another and I suspect his reg ed teacher hadn't looked at his IEP at all.

He has a workbook that contains a daily warm up worksheet for oral language, analogies, geography, math review and problem solving. He had drawn over 8 weeks worth of drawings in that book, but hadn't answered a single question in it. He came home with a 3-week guided reading packet that he hadn't touched (nor had he read the book he was supposed to have read). Every Monday he comes home with a blank vocabulary packet and several other blank worksheets that were supposed to be done in class. In other words, it's clear he is completing next to nothing throughout the day and they got the brilliant idea they should just send it all home for homework.

I told his teachers and the principal that I had received a back-to-school handout that detailed what *should* be coming home for homework, and that he is *not* bringing home what he's supposed to be bringing home and he *is* bringing home a lot of incomplete work. The principal said he shouldn't be doing homework for longer then 45 minutes each night. I am allowed to cut it off after that point, no matter how much he brings home. The teachers were asked to prioritize the homework that's sent home so I know what takes the primary focus.

It didn't make a difference. They still send home stuff I know they aren't supposed to send home, and still send no note about what I'm supposed to have him do with the work I'm not expecting. They make no mention of priority or explanation on work that isn't self-explanatory. They still neglect to make sure the *expected* work comes home along with his daily journal (sometimes they'll keep that for a week at a time, and it's the place he's supposed to record his spelling words - makes it hard to practice when I have no idea what the words are).

I make him do as much homework as I can because it's clear to me they're not going to bother making sure he's learning anything in school. Sometimes I feel like I'm basically homeschooling him and they're just babysitting.

He does obsess about things that concern me, which is another reason I considered the medication. For example, last year he went on a field trip with the regular ed class. He needed to use the restroom while there but didn't know which stall was free. He peeked in the crack between the stalls and saw a boy from his class sitting on the toilet. Another boy witnessed this and freaked out on him. To this day he still thinks that boy wants to get back at him for looking at him on the toilet. He's afraid of that other boy and his friends. He told me that he thinks about it every day.

I don't know about this school year, but last year and over the summer he would run off to hide if he got embarrassed (which happens daily). When he is out of his comfort zone he will itch uncontrollably. When he was younger he used to suck on his arm or throw his arms around like a gorilla when he got nervous. I suspect anxiety is the culprit for a lot of his issues. I'm still torn on whether to complete this Zoloft trial or not. He hasn't complained of any side effects yet.



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20 Oct 2010, 4:58 pm

mom2hfason - Edited for Brevity wrote:
I've been told he is passively non-compliant. If pushed, he is able to start his work, but you basically have to sit over his shoulder and supervise him if you want him to complete it. He just doesn't WANT to do it. In his words, it looks too hard, or is too much, or he doesn't know what to do. I'll hover nearby and assist as needed.

Listen to your son's words.
He doesn't know what to do.
My IQ isn't as high as some of the folk here, but it's a good strong number. Yet often I (and a lot of the other Auties here make this comment too) don't GET the instructions as well as NT people do - not only for homework, but for anything! And it can be the simplest omission that mangles he instructions - someone here once posted that they were helping their grandmother clean up old magazines. Gramma told him to get a plastic bag, and he came back with a green garbage bag... Gramma didn't want a garbage bag, she wanted a grocery bag. For to tie the magazines into manageable bundles. Poor Aspie felt like a fool! This kind of event, and things like it, happen to AS kids ALL the time. And eventually we just don't want to go get the bag anymore, because we don't want to make a mistake and get the wrong one - embarrassment and we have to start all over again! Sometimes we don't even realize WHY we don't feel comfortable "getting the bag", but we're intuiting that there's a hole in the instruction - even if we don't know exactly what or where the hole is!

We learn to refuse or stall when the instructions are not complete - and we don't even always realize that's WHY we're stalling.

So the BEST thing you can do to get him to accomplish his homework is
1. Lay out piles of all the work that has to be done, and label it "1st, 2nd, 3rd" order of importance.
2. Open the first pile. Read the instructions, out loud to your self and your son. Do YOU understand clearly what needs to be done? Does he? Ask yourself. Ask him. Rephrase the instructions in other words. Make him rephrase them in his own words.
3. Ask him to explain how he is going to proceed / solve the dilemma. In point form. On paper if he has to.
4. Help him with the first question, or the first paragraph, and then ask him if he understands where to go from there. You should be able to go off abd walk the dog now (or whatever), and trust him to do the work. At least until he gets to the next set of instructions.
5. Once he's done with pile 1, add +1 hour to his TV allotment (or whatever reward) and move immediately on to pile 2.

mom2hfason - Edited for Brevity wrote:
Getting him started is the hardest part because he needs a drink, and then he needs to go to the bathroom, and then he needs to sharpen his pencil, and then he needs to pet the cat, and then he needs to... well, anything but get started. Oh, and he seems to prefer working with me because he is 'allowed' to refuse to do work at school and it will come home with a note at the top that says he wanted to work on it at home.


He's stalling because he doesn't want to deal with the fact that he doesn't understand the instructions. Doesn't know how to proceed, doesn't know how he's ever going to deal with those nasty credit card companies that keep calling and calling... oh wait..

Actually, that's exactly the feeling he's getting... Overwhelmed and without the resources to formulate a step by step plan of how to get out of debt. In this case, debt = not understanding what needs to be done. Not satisfied with the instructions. And when he quits working on something halfway through, he's quitting because he's losing faith that he's doing things right!
If this is the case, then arrange with him the following - When he has done 6 math problems, or three paragraphs, or described one planet out of the nine (yes! nine!) tell him to call you to check on his work. Tell him he's doing it right! Or tell him what he should have done to get it right (And be blunt, we don't care if you're nice about it, we just want the honest truth) and he'll have the confidence and enthusiasm to continue! The teachers aren't "stopping by" his desk to take a look and say "good execution of my instructions laddie". He needs that.

mom2hfason - Edited for Brevity wrote:
My husband and I keep going back and forth on whether we should medicate or just accept things the way they are. I did start him on the medication 4-days ago. I know it will take a few weeks to see any change. I'm definitely worried about what the medication will do to his developing brain. I'm worried about permanent damage.


Screw medication. The other posters here have expressed variations on why I'd say to stay off the meds for now. I don't see anything in your description that warrants meds - the homework and instruction issues won't be solved by anything other than evolving confidence and practice. And I've suggested what you might try to help with that.. totally based on organic natural...

Actually, supernatural... parenting efforts. It takes a %#@load of extra effort to raise one of us, and a miracle of understanding. My mom did a pretty good job with me, but I would have turned out much better if only they'd known about all this stuff, and had advice groups like WP when I was a tyke...



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20 Oct 2010, 7:08 pm

Reading your more recent responses it sounds to me like this is a child in need of one of the accommodations I have frequently seen our school offer other children: a classroom aid. The aid will be the one to help him sort out what to do, to let him know how long it will take before he gets to do something else, etc. Giving him an aid won't mean he'll always have an aid; maybe he just needs that boost for a while, until they've been able to figure out all his other issues, and how to work with him. This is a common accommodation for children on the spectrum that allows them to function well in mainstream classrooms. Ask for it.

Other than the obsession thing, I'm really not seeing anything that medication is designed to address, which of course could be because I'm just reading here and I'm not living it there. The problems seem to be in communication, uninformed teachers, overly busy teachers, and other factors that are all external. I strongly believe in fixing an AS child's environment first, trying medication last, and there remain many problems in his environment. Our kids can be very reactive, and if you fix the issues they are reacting to, you've usually solved a host of contingent problems. If you've got your son in a "pass them through" environment, it is the wrong place for him.


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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


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20 Oct 2010, 9:08 pm

I would second the idea that the problem is most likely not knowing where to start, what to do, or how to handle the work that he is being given. I find that 3/4 of the difficulty that I have with a task is just figuring out what in the world is being asked of me, and how I am supposed to do it. Once I know what the point is, and how to do it, the rest is simply just sitting down and putting forth the effort.

I can't tell you how many times my homework went like this:

1. Read incomprehensible and confusing instructions.
2. Sit there and ponder what that could possibly mean
3. Get yelled at for sitting there and not working
4. Try guessing at what was requested of me and make something up
5. Get yelled at for not doing the problem correctly
6. Sit there and try to figure out what to do differently
7. Go to step 3

That is why I wound up going for a career in mathematics. There is no guessing in mathematics. It may be complicated and tricky, but there is no guessing.

As far as how that applies to helping your child: It means that you probably need to more clearly explain to him what needs to be done, and how to do it. Standing over his shoulder and constantly correcting him isn't very helpful. All that does is teach him to work in a random direction and rely on other people to tell him when he has randomly chosen incorrectly. You need to work more on him understanding the actual problem. Once he actually knows what to do, then you shouldn't need to sit there and do it with him.

I would also suggest learning more about how your child operates, so that you can better understand why he is having the struggles that he is having. What you are dealing with is mostly just 'symptoms' of underlying problems. When you try to address the 'symptoms' without actually understanding what the problem is, then you often times wind up accomplishing nothing because you aren't really dealing with the cause. To that end, I would suggest spending some time around the forums, and getting to learn more about your child. I would also suggest a book or two that you may find useful.

The first is 'Congratulations, Your Child is Strange'. It is available for free download at http://www.ASDstuff.com
It covers the basics of what is autism, what that means, what causes the problems that often come up, how to handle the problems, what to do when considering medication, and so forth. It doesn't cover absolutely everything that you need to know, but it is a good primer. Plus, it is free.

Secondly, you may want to read some books by Tony Attwood. 'The complete guide to Asperger's Syndrome' is a pretty good book, and most local libraries will have a copy available. Tony Attwood is neurotypical, but he does have some pretty useful information that is worth reading.

Also, on a side note to grace's mother:
If your child is having that particular problem, then she likely doesn't have a good understanding of what the mathematical symbols mean. Mathematical symbols are things like minus, plus, equals, times, etc. (what you see between the numbers). She knows that when you see:
65+45=
You just add those two together, and put it on the other side of the equals sign. But she probably has no idea what an equals sign means, or how it is used. And thus she doesn't understand what happens when problems are presented outside the typical format. This is most often times a result of an educational system that focus more on repetitive solving then actual understanding. Take some time to explain to her exactly what the mathematical signs mean, and how they are used, and then go over some examples with her. That should clear up a lot of the problems.