Zero Tolerance In Action
19 Oct 2010, 5:59 pm
waltur wrote:
hmm....
tell me what you think of my creative editing?
marshall wrote:
The problem I see here is there's been quite a few people acting like bullies lately. Hanotaux, John Browning, and most recently this Mojave character just to name a few. All three of these posters have used racist slurs and reacted with blustering glee and more taunting when some people reacted angrily. This is the kind of behavior that leads to people going to the moderators and getting people banned.
tell me what you think of my creative editing?
Yes, you edited out the part about conservatives not distanceing themselves or condemning these people as being a cause for people going to the moderators. I still think it could be a cause though as people tend to go to for more desparate measures when they feel like no one is on their side. When you see someone acting like a bully the responsible course of action isn't to go and lecture the victim of the remark on the value of freedom of speech.
Why not just condemn the person making the racist remarks right then and there and talk about your value for "freedom of speech" somewhere else?
iamnotaparakeet
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19 Oct 2010, 6:02 pm
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
The problem I see here is there's been quite a few people on the right acting like bullies lately. Hanotaux, John Browning, and most recently this Mojave character just to name a few. All three of these posters have used racist slurs and reacted with blustering glee and more taunting when some people reacted angrily. Then what do the majority of conservatives do? Instead of condemning and distancing themselves from those people they go and side with them on everything single thing they say and call out people on the left for daring to fight back just as dirty. This is the kind of behavior that leads to people going to the moderators and getting people banned.
I haven't been siding with people when they say stupid things, although I do admit that if they have otherwise been sociable to me I have ignored what they say - party because I want to pretend that I'm misreading what they've written. Often enough I will argue with friends on points, but when they say something completely ridiculous I want to assume that they are attempting, however poorly, at being ludicrous instead of inadvertently being ridiculous. Hanotaux may sincerely think of white people as being superior for some reason, I don't. John Browning's use of an alteration of the N-word which is also, coincidentally, a title of a denizen of a country from which a lot of spam and other e-mail scams comes from, was inappropriate. Mojave I do not know and he seems really eager to abuse this temporary freedom of speech on PPR, possibly so as to accelerate its loss, but I do not know that for certain as he could just sincerely be behaving as a Middle English term for a male donkey.
There is the most joyous and ironically entertaining about "Freedom Of Speech". Invariably those who are most vocal in their demands to use it are those who just want to use it to be f***ing nasty and rude. "Its my right of Freedom of Speech to say Nigerian even though its quite clear I'm just being a smartass to disguise the fact I'm just being f***ing racist". Seen it so many times before. Its not big, its certainly not clever or original.
I think you have just made a hasty generalization.
Far from it. Years of experience. I've never met anyone who hasn't demanded their right to free speech who hasn't promptly used it to be rude. nasty, insulting or just a twat. This is online or off, at work or after years of IRC moderation. So no, not hasty, nor generalising. When I meet someone who says "I have the right to say something quite pleasant about jews, or be complimentary about asians." who genuinely means it then I might decide otherwise.
Okay then, I have the right to say whatever I want. The Jewish people have historically been abused and otherwise mistreated, just as is happening against the state of Israel today. China has a massive honking big army, I'd wish they'd use it to keep peace in some the nations to the west of them so that American soldiers might be able to return home without everything descending into Taliban-like chaos. And, BTW, my wife is Jewish and she loves Asian culture.
19 Oct 2010, 6:11 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
The problem I see here is there's been quite a few people on the right acting like bullies lately. Hanotaux, John Browning, and most recently this Mojave character just to name a few. All three of these posters have used racist slurs and reacted with blustering glee and more taunting when some people reacted angrily. Then what do the majority of conservatives do? Instead of condemning and distancing themselves from those people they go and side with them on everything single thing they say and call out people on the left for daring to fight back just as dirty. This is the kind of behavior that leads to people going to the moderators and getting people banned.
I haven't been siding with people when they say stupid things, although I do admit that if they have otherwise been sociable to me I have ignored what they say - party because I want to pretend that I'm misreading what they've written. Often enough I will argue with friends on points, but when they say something completely ridiculous I want to assume that they are attempting, however poorly, at being ludicrous instead of inadvertently being ridiculous. Hanotaux may sincerely think of white people as being superior for some reason, I don't. John Browning's use of an alteration of the N-word which is also, coincidentally, a title of a denizen of a country from which a lot of spam and other e-mail scams comes from, was inappropriate. Mojave I do not know and he seems really eager to abuse this temporary freedom of speech on PPR, possibly so as to accelerate its loss, but I do not know that for certain as he could just sincerely be behaving as a Middle English term for a male donkey.
There is the most joyous and ironically entertaining about "Freedom Of Speech". Invariably those who are most vocal in their demands to use it are those who just want to use it to be f***ing nasty and rude. "Its my right of Freedom of Speech to say Nigerian even though its quite clear I'm just being a smartass to disguise the fact I'm just being f***ing racist". Seen it so many times before. Its not big, its certainly not clever or original.
I think you have just made a hasty generalization.
Far from it. Years of experience. I've never met anyone who hasn't demanded their right to free speech who hasn't promptly used it to be rude. nasty, insulting or just a twat. This is online or off, at work or after years of IRC moderation. So no, not hasty, nor generalising. When I meet someone who says "I have the right to say something quite pleasant about jews, or be complimentary about asians." who genuinely means it then I might decide otherwise.
Okay then, I have the right to say whatever I want. The Jewish people have historically been abused and otherwise mistreated, just as is happening against the state of Israel today. China has a massive honking big army, I'd wish they'd use it to keep peace in some the nations to the west of them so that American soldiers might be able to return home without everything descending into Taliban-like chaos. And, BTW, my wife is Jewish and she loves Asian culture.
When I meet someone who sticks his head in the oven because I told him to then I might decide otherwise.
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
19 Oct 2010, 6:14 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
waltur wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Janissy wrote:
The poll is also idiotic. Yes, I realize it's satire. Just like I realize a toy soldier is neither a weapon nor an actual soldier. But really lame satire.
The poll is half serious. I am not advocating a Zero Tolerance policy against offensiveness, and as such I'm one who has voted no, however it was suggested in another thread that there ought to be Zero Tolerance by a person who got upset at a stupid statement of another poster. Zero Tolerance is stupid, especially when actually put into practice even if it may sound good on paper, so of course any suggestion of its implementation would also sound idiotic.
who is suggesting this? why can't you just ridicule them for it in that thread? wouldn't that make more sense?
Friskygurl suggested it, in anger, when some random poster made a racial slur against her. The racial slur was wrong, however the suggestion of Zero Tolerance is also wrong - if not just a bad idea - since it entails absolute censorship of anything which could be interpreted, according to the letter, to fit the policy.
i didn't see that slur. that is pretty bad that it happened. i don't really know what Zero Tolerance means in this type of instance. that the person should be banned or what? i don't really know what i'm voting for or against. did anyone ask her what she meant by that?
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iamnotaparakeet
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19 Oct 2010, 6:22 pm
hyperlexian wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
waltur wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Janissy wrote:
The poll is also idiotic. Yes, I realize it's satire. Just like I realize a toy soldier is neither a weapon nor an actual soldier. But really lame satire.
The poll is half serious. I am not advocating a Zero Tolerance policy against offensiveness, and as such I'm one who has voted no, however it was suggested in another thread that there ought to be Zero Tolerance by a person who got upset at a stupid statement of another poster. Zero Tolerance is stupid, especially when actually put into practice even if it may sound good on paper, so of course any suggestion of its implementation would also sound idiotic.
who is suggesting this? why can't you just ridicule them for it in that thread? wouldn't that make more sense?
Friskygurl suggested it, in anger, when some random poster made a racial slur against her. The racial slur was wrong, however the suggestion of Zero Tolerance is also wrong - if not just a bad idea - since it entails absolute censorship of anything which could be interpreted, according to the letter, to fit the policy.
i didn't see that slur. that is pretty bad that it happened. i don't really know what Zero Tolerance means in this type of instance. that the person should be banned or what? i don't really know what i'm voting for or against. did anyone ask her what she meant by that?
Hyperlexian, as you had haphazardly quote Ruveun and claimed it was a form of abstraction, would you thus allow for this thread to also be an abstraction?
Zero Tolerance means any offense, first time and just barely fitting the letter of the law even, is penalized with banishment.
iamnotaparakeet
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19 Oct 2010, 6:24 pm
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
The problem I see here is there's been quite a few people on the right acting like bullies lately. Hanotaux, John Browning, and most recently this Mojave character just to name a few. All three of these posters have used racist slurs and reacted with blustering glee and more taunting when some people reacted angrily. Then what do the majority of conservatives do? Instead of condemning and distancing themselves from those people they go and side with them on everything single thing they say and call out people on the left for daring to fight back just as dirty. This is the kind of behavior that leads to people going to the moderators and getting people banned.
I haven't been siding with people when they say stupid things, although I do admit that if they have otherwise been sociable to me I have ignored what they say - party because I want to pretend that I'm misreading what they've written. Often enough I will argue with friends on points, but when they say something completely ridiculous I want to assume that they are attempting, however poorly, at being ludicrous instead of inadvertently being ridiculous. Hanotaux may sincerely think of white people as being superior for some reason, I don't. John Browning's use of an alteration of the N-word which is also, coincidentally, a title of a denizen of a country from which a lot of spam and other e-mail scams comes from, was inappropriate. Mojave I do not know and he seems really eager to abuse this temporary freedom of speech on PPR, possibly so as to accelerate its loss, but I do not know that for certain as he could just sincerely be behaving as a Middle English term for a male donkey.
There is the most joyous and ironically entertaining about "Freedom Of Speech". Invariably those who are most vocal in their demands to use it are those who just want to use it to be f***ing nasty and rude. "Its my right of Freedom of Speech to say Nigerian even though its quite clear I'm just being a smartass to disguise the fact I'm just being f***ing racist". Seen it so many times before. Its not big, its certainly not clever or original.
I think you have just made a hasty generalization.
Far from it. Years of experience. I've never met anyone who hasn't demanded their right to free speech who hasn't promptly used it to be rude. nasty, insulting or just a twat. This is online or off, at work or after years of IRC moderation. So no, not hasty, nor generalising. When I meet someone who says "I have the right to say something quite pleasant about jews, or be complimentary about asians." who genuinely means it then I might decide otherwise.
Okay then, I have the right to say whatever I want. The Jewish people have historically been abused and otherwise mistreated, just as is happening against the state of Israel today. China has a massive honking big army, I'd wish they'd use it to keep peace in some the nations to the west of them so that American soldiers might be able to return home without everything descending into Taliban-like chaos. And, BTW, my wife is Jewish and she loves Asian culture.
When I meet someone who sticks his head in the oven because I told him to then I might decide otherwise.
After you, good sir.
19 Oct 2010, 6:30 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
waltur wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Janissy wrote:
The poll is also idiotic. Yes, I realize it's satire. Just like I realize a toy soldier is neither a weapon nor an actual soldier. But really lame satire.
The poll is half serious. I am not advocating a Zero Tolerance policy against offensiveness, and as such I'm one who has voted no, however it was suggested in another thread that there ought to be Zero Tolerance by a person who got upset at a stupid statement of another poster. Zero Tolerance is stupid, especially when actually put into practice even if it may sound good on paper, so of course any suggestion of its implementation would also sound idiotic.
who is suggesting this? why can't you just ridicule them for it in that thread? wouldn't that make more sense?
Friskygurl suggested it, in anger, when some random poster made a racial slur against her. The racial slur was wrong, however the suggestion of Zero Tolerance is also wrong - if not just a bad idea - since it entails absolute censorship of anything which could be interpreted, according to the letter, to fit the policy.
i didn't see that slur. that is pretty bad that it happened. i don't really know what Zero Tolerance means in this type of instance. that the person should be banned or what? i don't really know what i'm voting for or against. did anyone ask her what she meant by that?
Hyperlexian, as you had haphazardly quote Ruveun and claimed it was a form of abstraction, would you thus allow for this thread to also be an abstraction?
Zero Tolerance means any offense, first time and just barely fitting the letter of the law even, is penalized with banishment.
what do you mean? i quoted ruevyn? i don't know what you are saying about that.
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19 Oct 2010, 6:33 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
The problem I see here is there's been quite a few people on the right acting like bullies lately. Hanotaux, John Browning, and most recently this Mojave character just to name a few. All three of these posters have used racist slurs and reacted with blustering glee and more taunting when some people reacted angrily. Then what do the majority of conservatives do? Instead of condemning and distancing themselves from those people they go and side with them on everything single thing they say and call out people on the left for daring to fight back just as dirty. This is the kind of behavior that leads to people going to the moderators and getting people banned.
I haven't been siding with people when they say stupid things, although I do admit that if they have otherwise been sociable to me I have ignored what they say - party because I want to pretend that I'm misreading what they've written. Often enough I will argue with friends on points, but when they say something completely ridiculous I want to assume that they are attempting, however poorly, at being ludicrous instead of inadvertently being ridiculous. Hanotaux may sincerely think of white people as being superior for some reason, I don't. John Browning's use of an alteration of the N-word which is also, coincidentally, a title of a denizen of a country from which a lot of spam and other e-mail scams comes from, was inappropriate. Mojave I do not know and he seems really eager to abuse this temporary freedom of speech on PPR, possibly so as to accelerate its loss, but I do not know that for certain as he could just sincerely be behaving as a Middle English term for a male donkey.
There is the most joyous and ironically entertaining about "Freedom Of Speech". Invariably those who are most vocal in their demands to use it are those who just want to use it to be f***ing nasty and rude. "Its my right of Freedom of Speech to say Nigerian even though its quite clear I'm just being a smartass to disguise the fact I'm just being f***ing racist". Seen it so many times before. Its not big, its certainly not clever or original.
I think you have just made a hasty generalization.
Far from it. Years of experience. I've never met anyone who hasn't demanded their right to free speech who hasn't promptly used it to be rude. nasty, insulting or just a twat. This is online or off, at work or after years of IRC moderation. So no, not hasty, nor generalising. When I meet someone who says "I have the right to say something quite pleasant about jews, or be complimentary about asians." who genuinely means it then I might decide otherwise.
Okay then, I have the right to say whatever I want. The Jewish people have historically been abused and otherwise mistreated, just as is happening against the state of Israel today. China has a massive honking big army, I'd wish they'd use it to keep peace in some the nations to the west of them so that American soldiers might be able to return home without everything descending into Taliban-like chaos. And, BTW, my wife is Jewish and she loves Asian culture.
When I meet someone who sticks his head in the oven because I told him to then I might decide otherwise.
After you, good sir.
Worth a shot.
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
iamnotaparakeet
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19 Oct 2010, 6:41 pm
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
The problem I see here is there's been quite a few people on the right acting like bullies lately. Hanotaux, John Browning, and most recently this Mojave character just to name a few. All three of these posters have used racist slurs and reacted with blustering glee and more taunting when some people reacted angrily. Then what do the majority of conservatives do? Instead of condemning and distancing themselves from those people they go and side with them on everything single thing they say and call out people on the left for daring to fight back just as dirty. This is the kind of behavior that leads to people going to the moderators and getting people banned.
I haven't been siding with people when they say stupid things, although I do admit that if they have otherwise been sociable to me I have ignored what they say - party because I want to pretend that I'm misreading what they've written. Often enough I will argue with friends on points, but when they say something completely ridiculous I want to assume that they are attempting, however poorly, at being ludicrous instead of inadvertently being ridiculous. Hanotaux may sincerely think of white people as being superior for some reason, I don't. John Browning's use of an alteration of the N-word which is also, coincidentally, a title of a denizen of a country from which a lot of spam and other e-mail scams comes from, was inappropriate. Mojave I do not know and he seems really eager to abuse this temporary freedom of speech on PPR, possibly so as to accelerate its loss, but I do not know that for certain as he could just sincerely be behaving as a Middle English term for a male donkey.
There is the most joyous and ironically entertaining about "Freedom Of Speech". Invariably those who are most vocal in their demands to use it are those who just want to use it to be f***ing nasty and rude. "Its my right of Freedom of Speech to say Nigerian even though its quite clear I'm just being a smartass to disguise the fact I'm just being f***ing racist". Seen it so many times before. Its not big, its certainly not clever or original.
I think you have just made a hasty generalization.
Far from it. Years of experience. I've never met anyone who hasn't demanded their right to free speech who hasn't promptly used it to be rude. nasty, insulting or just a twat. This is online or off, at work or after years of IRC moderation. So no, not hasty, nor generalising. When I meet someone who says "I have the right to say something quite pleasant about jews, or be complimentary about asians." who genuinely means it then I might decide otherwise.
Okay then, I have the right to say whatever I want. The Jewish people have historically been abused and otherwise mistreated, just as is happening against the state of Israel today. China has a massive honking big army, I'd wish they'd use it to keep peace in some the nations to the west of them so that American soldiers might be able to return home without everything descending into Taliban-like chaos. And, BTW, my wife is Jewish and she loves Asian culture.
When I meet someone who sticks his head in the oven because I told him to then I might decide otherwise.
After you, good sir.
Worth a shot.
What caliber would you like?
19 Oct 2010, 7:02 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
The problem I see here is there's been quite a few people on the right acting like bullies lately. Hanotaux, John Browning, and most recently this Mojave character just to name a few. All three of these posters have used racist slurs and reacted with blustering glee and more taunting when some people reacted angrily. Then what do the majority of conservatives do? Instead of condemning and distancing themselves from those people they go and side with them on everything single thing they say and call out people on the left for daring to fight back just as dirty. This is the kind of behavior that leads to people going to the moderators and getting people banned.
I haven't been siding with people when they say stupid things, although I do admit that if they have otherwise been sociable to me I have ignored what they say - party because I want to pretend that I'm misreading what they've written. Often enough I will argue with friends on points, but when they say something completely ridiculous I want to assume that they are attempting, however poorly, at being ludicrous instead of inadvertently being ridiculous. Hanotaux may sincerely think of white people as being superior for some reason, I don't. John Browning's use of an alteration of the N-word which is also, coincidentally, a title of a denizen of a country from which a lot of spam and other e-mail scams comes from, was inappropriate. Mojave I do not know and he seems really eager to abuse this temporary freedom of speech on PPR, possibly so as to accelerate its loss, but I do not know that for certain as he could just sincerely be behaving as a Middle English term for a male donkey.
There is the most joyous and ironically entertaining about "Freedom Of Speech". Invariably those who are most vocal in their demands to use it are those who just want to use it to be f***ing nasty and rude. "Its my right of Freedom of Speech to say Nigerian even though its quite clear I'm just being a smartass to disguise the fact I'm just being f***ing racist". Seen it so many times before. Its not big, its certainly not clever or original.
I think you have just made a hasty generalization.
Far from it. Years of experience. I've never met anyone who hasn't demanded their right to free speech who hasn't promptly used it to be rude. nasty, insulting or just a twat. This is online or off, at work or after years of IRC moderation. So no, not hasty, nor generalising. When I meet someone who says "I have the right to say something quite pleasant about jews, or be complimentary about asians." who genuinely means it then I might decide otherwise.
Okay then, I have the right to say whatever I want. The Jewish people have historically been abused and otherwise mistreated, just as is happening against the state of Israel today. China has a massive honking big army, I'd wish they'd use it to keep peace in some the nations to the west of them so that American soldiers might be able to return home without everything descending into Taliban-like chaos. And, BTW, my wife is Jewish and she loves Asian culture.
When I meet someone who sticks his head in the oven because I told him to then I might decide otherwise.
After you, good sir.
Worth a shot.
What caliber would you like?
Your singular attempt at "positive" free speech is hardly conducive to counteracting the years of negative free speech, especially when its done as a direct response to me mentioning its lack. Neither big, nor clever, being a smartass.
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that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
iamnotaparakeet
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19 Oct 2010, 7:13 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Really now, you can eat a cake and have it too?
Therein lies the problem with any debate involving you. It soon descends into ridiculous non-sequiturs and school-yard level "I know you are but what am I." BS, or the age old fortress of the terminally ignorant: picking on grammar and spelling because you can't respond to the actual statement.
_________________
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iamnotaparakeet
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19 Oct 2010, 7:32 pm
Macbeth wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Really now, you can eat a cake and have it too?
Therein lies the problem with any debate involving you. It soon descends into ridiculous non-sequiturs and school-yard level "I know you are but what am I." BS, or the age old fortress of the terminally ignorant: picking on grammar and spelling because you can't respond to the actual statement.
Actually, I wasn't picking on your grammar, or even hyperlexian's or greenblue's yet, but instead the phrase "eat your cake and have it too" is an idiom with a meaning of "so you want it both ways?"
iamnotaparakeet
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19 Oct 2010, 7:37 pm
Macbeth wrote:
Your singular attempt at "positive" free speech is hardly conducive to counteracting the years of negative free speech.
Here is an issue though, do you only wish to hear positive racist comments with a cheerful tone? Happy-thoughts only? Yes, people who want to be nasty will argue for freedom of speech when it suits them and then against freedom of speech when it doesn't suit them. However, such is life. Nasty people are often fairly vocal proponents for their own nastiness.
19 Oct 2010, 8:38 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Your singular attempt at "positive" free speech is hardly conducive to counteracting the years of negative free speech.
Here is an issue though, do you only wish to hear positive racist comments with a cheerful tone? Happy-thoughts only? Yes, people who want to be nasty will argue for freedom of speech when it suits them and then against freedom of speech when it doesn't suit them. However, such is life. Nasty people are often fairly vocal proponents for their own nastiness.
QFT. but it is not necessary to be that way.
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