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Inventor
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05 Nov 2010, 10:42 am

A while back there was a claim of a Trademark action brought by Autism Speaks, Being it is something I know about, I PMed the poster, Who did not reply.

Nothing more came of it, I would have heard, so all I can think is it was a lie. I am being sued by Autism Speaks was just marketing, attention getting,

So far it has only been claims without evidence. The claimed Trademark action would have voided the mark.

Exposing the claim that Alex is working with Autism Speaks, was first posted here by Alex, that he had a joint venture going with Autism Speaks.

Wrong Planet is not public, the TOS must be agreed to before posting,

Under that, posts that have been removed are not to be discussed. Posting links to removed posts is not allowed,

I did not read the OP, but I think it should just vanish, and the poster should also.

Once any claim of a legal action has been made, there should be a blackout till the matter is resolved in the courts.

There is no right to publish here. No need to explain why offensive material has been removed, Some people around are six and seven, The topic is Autism, not spam for other causes.

As Thomas Jefferson put it, "Freedom of the press applies to those who own one."



StuartN
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05 Nov 2010, 4:12 pm

Inventor wrote:
A while back there was a claim of a Trademark action brought by Autism Speaks, Being it is something I know about, I PMed the poster, Who did not reply.

Nothing more came of it, I would have heard, so all I can think is it was a lie. I am being sued by Autism Speaks was just marketing, attention getting,

So far it has only been claims without evidence. The claimed Trademark action would have voided the mark.


Evidence of Autism Speaks bringing an action is here http://www.aspieweb.net/aspieweb-being- ... sm-speaks/ and links were posted by Alex here http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt69601.html

You can support the bullied AspieWeb blogger by buying products here http://www.aspieweb.net/store/


The previous case of Autism Speaks bullying a child blogger for daring to create the NT Speaks site is described here http://thefamilyvoyage.blogspot.com/200 ... istic.html with a screenshot of the deleted site here http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/ntspeaks/

Alex was quite supportive of the NT Speaks blogger when he talked about Autism Speaks' actions here http://www.wrongplanet.net/posts54467-start15.html



CockneyRebel
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05 Nov 2010, 5:26 pm

I thought this thread was about my occasional swearing that I'm well known for around the second week of each month. :lol:

I also must say that I would love to censor it. There are better ways to pay for videos. I feel that Pepsi would be a great sponsor. A lot of us like to drink pop. I also think that it's up to Alex what he does and who, or what he chooses as a sponsor. I may disagree, but he's the one who's making the videos.


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theWanderer
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08 Nov 2010, 2:46 pm

I don't pretend to know all the issues here, but there is at least one point which many posters - as almost everyone on the Internet - seems to be confused about. That is, what constitutes censorship. Please, however, don't confuse my efforts to set that one issue straight with taking either side on this one. I certainly will never go so far as to support Autism Speaks myself, yet on the other hand, what little I've gathered of the personal and objectionable nature of some of the posts at the heart of the issue hardly leaves me wanting to support their author, either.

So, what exactly is censorship?
Any official government action to silence any form of speech is certainly censorship.
Even unofficial action, taken by an individual, under cover of a government position to silence any speech can fairly be called censorship.
And - although it is not technically censorship - I'll even agree that legal action with the intent to silence someone is, in a broader sense, very much equivalent to censorship.

But... in every one of those cases, the 'speaker' owns their own printing press, pays their own printer, hosts their own forum or puts one up and pays the hosting costs, whatever. That is, freedom of speech is the freedom to use your resources and venue - or a public venue such as a street corner or park - to say what you want. I firmly believe in such freedom, and oppose any efforts to censor it.

But... you can't expect a printer to print your message just because you want him to. Buy your own press and learn to use it, or find a willing printer and pay him to do it, but you have no right to force me down into my basement (yes, I have presses there :D ) to print your message. Likewise, the person who pays to put a web page or forum up on the internet is the one who chooses what messages should go up there. If you don't like policy of that site, find one you do like or start your own.

It may be reasonable to protest a site owner's decision to do this or that - and, whether or not I agree that it's reasonable, you have a right to go on your own blog or site and say what you like about it. But, when you call a site owner's decision to take down from their site anything at all they don't agree with 'censorship', you simply reveal you don't know what you're talking about.

"Company X are jerks because they won't allow me to post about my favourite - and very important - cause on their site" is an opinion, and one everyone may not agree with, but you haven't mis-stated any facts. "Company X censored me because they removed from their site my post about some subject they found controversial or offensive" is asserting a fact that simply is not true. They could not possibly have 'censored' you simply by editing the content of their site as they saw fit.

Insofar as I do understand the issues, some of you are upset by what Alex, the site owner of Wrong Planet, did in removing certain posts. Since he has allowed this thread to remain, it appears that he's even willing to permit a certain amount of discussion about the issue. But, how do you expect him to listen or to take you seriously when you're completely misrepresenting what he has done? He has no duty to provide anyone a platform for what they want to say. He has no power to "silence" anyone: there are countless sites where they can still post whatever they want. And, if they manage to get banned from every one of those sites, :lol: they can still open up a cheap hosting account and say anything they like.


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wavefreak58
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08 Nov 2010, 3:23 pm

theWanderer wrote:
So, what exactly is censorship?
Any official government action to silence any form of speech is certainly censorship.
Even unofficial action, taken by an individual, under cover of a government position to silence any speech can fairly be called censorship.
And - although it is not technically censorship - I'll even agree that legal action with the intent to silence someone is, in a broader sense, very much equivalent to censorship.

But... in every one of those cases, the 'speaker' owns their own printing press, pays their own printer, hosts their own forum or puts one up and pays the hosting costs, whatever. That is, freedom of speech is the freedom to use your resources and venue - or a public venue such as a street corner or park - to say what you want. I firmly believe in such freedom, and oppose any efforts to censor it.

But... you can't expect a printer to print your message just because you want him to. Buy your own press and learn to use it, or find a willing printer and pay him to do it, but you have no right to force me down into my basement (yes, I have presses there :D ) to print your message. Likewise, the person who pays to put a web page or forum up on the internet is the one who chooses what messages should go up there. If you don't like policy of that site, find one you do like or start your own.

It may be reasonable to protest a site owner's decision to do this or that - and, whether or not I agree that it's reasonable, you have a right to go on your own blog or site and say what you like about it. But, when you call a site owner's decision to take down from their site anything at all they don't agree with 'censorship', you simply reveal you don't know what you're talking about.


Great analogy. But it breaks down a bit when you consider that if this forum is the printing press, the posts are what get printed. Deleting posts would be akin to destroying materials printed in your basement on your press, but printed my my labor, using my ink and paper.

The ownership of this site clearly gives ALL the rights to Alex. But if he promotes it as an open forum, he needs to be careful to find the right balance between openness and dictatorship.

Personally, I think he gets it pretty close to right. I don't envy his task in the least.



theWanderer
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08 Nov 2010, 3:57 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Great analogy. But it breaks down a bit when you consider that if this forum is the printing press, the posts are what get printed. Deleting posts would be akin to destroying materials printed in your basement on your press, but printed my my labor, using my ink and paper.

The ownership of this site clearly gives ALL the rights to Alex. But if he promotes it as an open forum, he needs to be careful to find the right balance between openness and dictatorship.

Personally, I think he gets it pretty close to right. I don't envy his task in the least.


No analogy is perfect. :) But, if I invite you into my basement to use my press, with the condition that you can only print certain things, and I have the right to destroy anything I disapprove of, then that's the risk you take. If you don't like the risk, get your own press. :D

Obviously, if a site owner is too harsh, most of their users will disappear. It tends to be a self-correcting system, unlike the earlier days of printing, when presses were costly and very few people could afford them. Then, the printer had a lot of power. But how much power does any site owner really have? If too many of their users are too badly treated, one of them can found their own site - and, if it is better, all the users will flock there.

As for what I think, well, I'm still posting here. :D I agree with him on some points (mocking anyone on the basis of any diagnosis is a disgusting thing to do), and disagree on others (Autism Speaks), but then I've never found anyone I agree with completely. Not even myself, if you consider earlier temporal versions... :wink: And, I don't want to spend time in a place where anyone can get away with anything, any more than I'd want to spend time on a site where the slightest disagreement led to the banhammer falling on someone's head. I think Wrong Planet strikes a pretty good balance.


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08 Nov 2010, 5:01 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
Not being a moderator...


I think you saw a chance to attack Alex and you took it; because you are STILL upset that your moderator privileges were taken away.

I may not post here often, but I certainly am a lurkoholic. I haven't seen any posts from you that don't mention not being a mod anymore... since the incident that cost you your mod rights. How long ago was that?

Did that "guide to treating other people like I would like to be treated myself" say anything about forgiveness? It seems like you have been carrying a chip on your shoulder for the past 6+ months. That can't be healthy.



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08 Nov 2010, 5:29 pm

There seems to be a rift here growing in the autism community. Even Gareth and Amy Nelson from Aspies for Freedom seem to think that Alex is a sell out to Autism Speaks for accepting money from them. Adding to that, some people seem to think that the one thread was deleted only because someone from Autism Speaks asked for it to be deleted, not because it broke any WP rules. Alex was previously very critical of Autism Speaks though. I don't see anything wrong with the Autism TV videos, except that episode 9's sound was out of whack and there two places in that video switched to a high pitched screeching with a sign saying there were technical difficulties. That just aggravates my sensory issues.

Anyway, I think it's a sad state of affairs if the neurodiversity movement gets split over this issue. I don't want to condone anything bad Socrates did, but how will we repair relations the rest of the neurodiversity community if just about every blog and group, including AFF thinks this a sell out issue? Would Alex have to try to convince them what his true intentions are? I've got faith that all his intentions were good, though there is a lot to criticise about Autism Speaks.



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08 Nov 2010, 6:37 pm

Over in Europe there is a widespread belief that presses (and forums) have a duty of accuracy and impartiality. There is occasionally vigorous debate about partisan proprietorial censorship and editorial censorship.



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08 Nov 2010, 8:17 pm

StuartN wrote:
Over in Europe there is a widespread belief that presses (and forums) have a duty of accuracy and impartiality. There is occasionally vigorous debate about partisan proprietorial censorship and editorial censorship.


My passionate commitment to free speech (I'm a writer) causes me to strongly oppose such ideas. After all, just who defines accuracy? Who defines impartiality? Whoever defines these things, gains the power of a censor.

And, while there is such a thing as accuracy, elusive as it may be, impartiality is impossible for anyone to achieve. So the second concept is even worse than the first, in that it will always be inherently distorted.

I would much prefer to allow free and robust debate - in the sense that we could all find other forums if we really felt things here were unendurable - than to let censorship sneak in the back door via efforts to impose accuracy and impartiality.


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08 Nov 2010, 11:50 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
The ownership of this site clearly gives ALL the rights to Alex. But ...

No, no "but". Either Alex owns this site and can decide all matters or he does not and cannot.

wavefreak58 wrote:
... if he promotes it as an open forum, he needs to be careful to find the right balance between openness and dictatorship ...

Openness and dictatorship do not even relate to the same category of issues ... and although it was not your intent to do so, you have just planted the suspicion of dictatorship into the minds of some people. So ...

To all: Alex decides all matters here, and he does so without even coming close to being any kind of dictator.

Jono wrote:
Even Gareth and Amy Nelson from Aspies for Freedom seem to think that Alex is a sell out to Autism Speaks for accepting money from them.

That is just plain silly!


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StuartN
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09 Nov 2010, 7:53 am

leejosepho wrote:
Jono wrote:
Even Gareth and Amy Nelson from Aspies for Freedom seem to think that Alex is a sell out to Autism Speaks for accepting money from them.

That is just plain silly!


Here is the "silly" stuff: http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthr ... ?tid=20393



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09 Nov 2010, 9:06 am

StuartN wrote:

Agreed:

Quote:
... thousands of dollars from Autism Speaks in return for ... advertise and promote the dodgy curebie org.

I have seen no such think happen.


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Jono
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09 Nov 2010, 2:46 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Jono wrote:
Even Gareth and Amy Nelson from Aspies for Freedom seem to think that Alex is a sell out to Autism Speaks for accepting money from them.

That is just plain silly!


I'm all for supporting Alex on this one. However, I would prefer it if the neurodiverse community didn't fragment over this issue. Alex still has support support from a lot of Wrongplanet members but because a lot of people in the neurodiverse still don't trust Autism Speaks, this issue seems to be alienating sections of the neurodiverse community outside the Wrongplanet membership.

To be fair, Autism Speaks may be making a move towards us but they are still pretty much using their disease laden language as always. For example, calling autism a "growing global health crisis" is not only damaging but it's not even accurate because there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the incidence autism has actually increased.



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10 Nov 2010, 2:59 pm

StuartN wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Jono wrote:
Even Gareth and Amy Nelson from Aspies for Freedom seem to think that Alex is a sell out to Autism Speaks for accepting money from them.

That is just plain silly!


Here is the "silly" stuff: http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthr ... ?tid=20393


Here's another thread about this on a different forum:

http://www.spectrumites.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1418&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=9dc07f89a38cd57f559bf1b699c11512.