Aspie or Just a Nerd
Hello, this is my first post here. You've probably seen it a million times: I think I have Asperger's and I have some questions. I have a pretty basic one to start. What do you believe distinguishes a smart, gifted, bullied aspie vs. a smart, gifted, bullied NT nerd?
Apologies in advance if there's already a thread for this, but I could not find one.
I'm not offended by the ugly question. I consider myself average, though my wife disagrees and thinks that I'm hot.
Here is my difficulty with this answer. Except for the social cues, none of these are absolutely necessary for Asperger's and also can be true for non-aspies. A nerd could get social cues buts till be a klutz, etc. And even with social cues, these can be learned by some aspies. It might be difficult, but if you're smart enough then you can learn it. Math comes naturally to me, but most people need to work to learn math. I suspect an aspie could learn social cues the same way that a non-math inclined NT learns math: study some text books, do some homework assignments, etc. (And about as non-fun!)
A specific example, I recall doing the eyes test, and when I didn't know immediately what the emotion was I went through a rational analysis to answer it. Like "confronting" means that you want to be hostile to someone, and an fighter always keeps his eyes on his opponent lest the opponent strike first. Therefore, since the eyes in this photo are not looking at me, I can rule out the "confronting" option as an answer. Whereas I suspect an NT would just look at the eyes and know the answer without that line of reasoning.
Well of course people with AS learn social cues. You'd never survive outside your house if you didn't. It just takes us longer, because we don't pick them up unconsciously like most people do. We tend to gradually become aware by watching trends (statistical behaviors, not fads). When we try something repeatedly and it doesn't work, we start watching other people and see what they do that does work. That doesn't mean we're ever as good at these things as those who are born with the ability to just pick them up without even thinking about it, but we figure out how to muddle our way through most day to day situations (or how to avoid those situations we can't handle).
On the other hand, some things are lifelong problems. If you have serious issues with social anxiety, that's probably going to be a problem for you your whole life. I was talking to a Mental Health professional the other day about talking to strangers and she was focusing on the textbook concepts of not picking up nonverbal cues and I told her that I don't have such a problem with that as an adult, I pretty much know by now what to watch for.
My problem now is I don't know how to begin an interaction with a stranger because to me the possible opening remarks are so seemingly infinite, I don't know which one to choose. If they approach me and ask a question, or make a remark, problem solved, now I have a handle on what to talk about. Now maybe there are some nonverbal cues there I'm missing, but I have the same problem ordering in a restaurant, there are too many choices and I'm overwhelmed by my inability to know which one of several seemingly equal but different things to pick. That's a processing problem and it seems to be pretty common to autistic people.
_________________
"Strange, inaccessible worlds exist at our very elbows"
- Howard Phillips Lovecraft
Here is my difficulty with this answer. Except for the social cues, none of these are absolutely necessary for Asperger's and also can be true for non-aspies. A nerd could get social cues buts till be a klutz, etc. And even with social cues, these can be learned by some aspies. It might be difficult, but if you're smart enough then you can learn it. Math comes naturally to me, but most people need to work to learn math. I suspect an aspie could learn social cues the same way that a non-math inclined NT learns math: study some text books, do some homework assignments, etc. (And about as non-fun!)
A specific example, I recall doing the eyes test, and when I didn't know immediately what the emotion was I went through a rational analysis to answer it. Like "confronting" means that you want to be hostile to someone, and an fighter always keeps his eyes on his opponent lest the opponent strike first. Therefore, since the eyes in this photo are not looking at me, I can rule out the "confronting" option as an answer. Whereas I suspect an NT would just look at the eyes and know the answer without that line of reasoning.
First let me say that I am far from being an expert, but will give you my opinion anyway. I think that actually many characteristics that are considered AS, if taken separately, or even if you have a few, can also be NT characteristics. The issue about looking in the eyes for instance (that not all people with AS have), if taken separately, can be due to different reasons, even among AS, and for a NT person it can be due to being shy. That's why I think you have to look at a lot more then one personality trait or issue to figure out if you are AS or NT, or a little bit of both or something else.
I don't know what an NT nerd is like.
Can they small talk or do they talk more about their special interests?
To that have oversensitivity to light/sound/touch/smell?
Do they have any motor skill problems?
Do they spend all day on their special interest, forget to eat and lose sleep because of it?
Can they adjust well to change?
Do they have repetitive rituals? Wear the same clothes, eat the same food, do the same thing everyday, etc.
Do they need step by step instructions to learn a new skill? Usually it's something that is physical.
Can they regulate their emotions or are they quick to anger?
Are they immature emotionally to that of their peers?
Do they write lists and talk like an instruction manual?
Is their name Sheldon? I thought I'd add that last one in.
Interesting about the whole social cues vs. math thing. I always do math re-vision but I haven't got the memory for it. It just slips out of my mind and so I have to re-learn it again. It's the same with me and social cues. I did learn some things but when I'm actually around people I completely forget about what I learnt.
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My band photography blog - http://lostthroughthelens.wordpress.com/
My personal blog - http://helptheywantmetosocialise.wordpress.com/
I will try to compare the list of pensieve with the nerd stereotype usually presented with TV, movies, etc.
Can they small talk or do they talk more about their special interests?
Only about interests (althoug - unlike geeks . nerds are usually portrait as knowing almost everything about almost everything, not having a specific special interst)
To that have oversensitivity to light/sound/touch/smell?
No
Yes, is a main part of the stereotype
Yes and no - usually nerds are portrait as spending all time in their special interests, but is usually presented in contrast with sports or socialization, not in the sense of not eating or sleeping
This point usually are not refereed.
No references about that.
No - usually nerds are portrait as having difficulties in physica skills, but more as question of clumsiness and weakness, not a problem of needing steep by steep instructions.
Varies much.
Yes.
Usually not
Sometimes (specially in English-speaking countries)
Last edited by TPE2 on 14 Nov 2010, 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tollorin
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Age: 42
Gender: Male
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Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada
Hope it can help.
http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10167.aspx
_________________
Down with speculators!! !
Actually I do know an NT nerd. He has a knowledge about most things. He's a programmer, plays bass, rides bikes (big bike obsession) and a bit political.
He's very social but. And I think he can balance his work, interests and social life well. His jokes sometimes go over other peoples heads.
I also might just add: wouldn't some nerds stereotyped in the media be based on people with AS before it was a well known condition?
_________________
My band photography blog - http://lostthroughthelens.wordpress.com/
My personal blog - http://helptheywantmetosocialise.wordpress.com/
( i'm just kidding btw, maybe someone has more thoughts than i do , i'm tired. )
I strongly disagree here, a smart NT is perhaps less likely to be bulled then someone with AS, but there's still a good chance that they'll be bulled (especially in school.) A smart NT who can't hide their intelligence/not use it when it's required, or carve out a niche for themselves as a smart person, is quite liable to be bullied.
Yes, I've seen nerd traits be described as "soft Asperger's" in the past, and although I don't completely agree, I can see where the sentiment is coming from.
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"Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." - Albert Camus
He's very social but. And I think he can balance his work, interests and social life well. His jokes sometimes go over other peoples heads.
My impression is that the definition of "nerd" requires some unsociability and/or social akwardness.
Other impression that I have is that the nerd stereotype in US media ressembles much the AS stereotype (interest in hard sciences + socially innapropriate behaviour) while in European media and literature, the representation of "intelligent but socially maladjusted teenagers" ressembles more something like Avoidant and/or Schizoid PDs (shyness and/or voluntary reclusivness + abstract reflections about life/society/universe) - "Adrian Mole" seems a bit Avoidant, for example.
And probably the relation between nerd stereotype and AS stereotype is two-ways: if the popular ners stereotype is influenced by "nerds with AS", the popular AS stereotype is also influenced by "Aspies with nerd tendencies" - the popular image of Aspies special interests are mathematics, astronomy or computers, not types of glue or train routes.
Actually a nerd is what you call really smart people. A geek is the one with a lot knowledge about a certain interest and a dork is the one who lacks social skills.
When you call someone a nerd you are just implying that they are very very smart. That's my understanding at least. I get called a nerd more about what I speak about and not when I show bad social skills.
My friend is definitely a nerd but he's a cool one because of his knowledge in music. The guy pretty much knows everything, it can get frustrating.
_________________
My band photography blog - http://lostthroughthelens.wordpress.com/
My personal blog - http://helptheywantmetosocialise.wordpress.com/
Apologies in advance if there's already a thread for this, but I could not find one.
I don't think there is a such thing as an NT nerd. A nerd, even if not an aspie, is also not an NT. More like, somewhere between NT and aspie.
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not aspie, not NT, somewhere in between
Aspie Quiz: 110 Aspie, 103 Neurotypical.
Used to be more autistic than I am now.
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