Having your needs treated like they're less...

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Qi
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18 Nov 2010, 10:03 am

...less than other people's needs. It's one of the most difficult things for me about having Asperger's.

Examples:

I don't like variety in what I eat. People say I'm spoiled. But what about them? They can't eat the same thing over and over again, so how come I don't have the right to call them spoiled for needing variety?

People like to socialize, and I like to pursue my own interests. If these two conflicted, they will absolutely not take into account my need to do my own stuff, since socializing is the "normal" thing to do.



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18 Nov 2010, 10:18 am

I find this enormously frustrating. I was trying to explain to my mom a couple of weeks ago that I think it may not be true that autistic people are more rigid in their thinking than other people. It may be more that we have to make so many adjustments in our thinking already in order to interact with other people that our capacity to be flexible simply becomes exhausted when it comes to things like changing foods or topics of conversation.

I think two elements of this situation make it especially frustrating. Many people with AS have a really strong need for things to be fair. We're sort of idealistic, maybe even a little childlike in this. I'm the sort of person who is genuinely disappointed that it seems like the president hasn't really tried to change the culture of Washington-- and apologies if you disagree, my point is my idealism not my politics. I didn't expect him to succeed in spectacular or speedy ways, but I've been very disappointed that there does not seem to be any sincere effort to get away from lobbyist-written legislation or backroom deals. Most people, I think, didn't actually expect the president to make a sincere effort to do that, or are more concerned with his other achievements or liabilities that this doesn't really matter to them. But to me, this has been a big deal.

I want things to be fair. I care about this more than most people do. But----

I am also a member of a minority group. I will always have to adjust more for other people than they will have to adjust for me. It's like being left-handed: people don't even mean to discriminate against you, but they don't really think about it.

So it sucks. I have to be more flexible than other people, which is unfair, and unfairness bothers me more than it bothers other people.

Does that relate at all to what you're feeling?


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wavefreak58
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18 Nov 2010, 10:19 am

"Spoiled" is having your every whim catered to by a horde of sycophants.

Eating the same things is not being spoiled unless you have someone catering to that need in some psychologically unhealthy manner.

I suppose if your daily diet is caviar, Fillet Mignon and high end champagne, then you might be spoiled.

People don't like things that are different from their perception of 'normal' so they will label them in ways that marginalize their significance without first examining their own behavior.



SuperApsie
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18 Nov 2010, 10:46 am

Excellent thing that you question yourself.

Quote:
I don't like variety in what I eat. People say I'm spoiled. But what about them? They can't eat the same thing over and over again, so how come I don't have the right to call them spoiled for needing variety?

You have to take the quote in the context. Something is served and you're picky. If you choose not to eat, it will be understood that you place a greater value into your own taste rather than in the social aspect of eating what was made with effort for enjoyment.
Then it depends on the food, is that food really so alien, so special you could have a reason for hating it (fat texture, vegetarianism, unusual taste...) but if the food you have in front of you is standard. They have the right to say you are spoiled

Variety is needed for the human organism. That's a first assumption that counter your claim. Then if you go for the extreme and find the people who do search variety at all costs, you are looking into something not common, and have nothing to do with the context of watching your food getting cold.

Quote:
Many people with AS have a really strong need for things to be fair. We're sort of idealistic, maybe even a little childlike in this

Again, think. this is not "fairness" thinking, this is symmetry thinking. Sometimes you might have the chance that both match, but as stated before it is always symmetric.
Our process of thinking is good, but we NEED to expand the logic to progress in the society. When something seems unlogical or unfair: ask yourself questions, because THIS is the window where you can grip ideas and make things clear. It is only then you'll master fairness.

Quote:
People like to socialize, and I like to pursue my own interests. If these two conflicted, they will absolutely not take into account my need to do my own stuff, since socializing is the "normal" thing to do.

Same symmetry around time scheduling. Cannot be relevant alone: socializing might lead you to someone that knows enough to put your interests on steroids, will for sure lead you to talk about your interests, might get you a job in your interests, might increase and shape your interests with the perspective of the world.

Don't expect fairness to pop straight out from our brain, it require work, symmetry is good only if it is complete, expand it, or it would be unfair for all the value you put in it.
Observe, Notice the defect, Emit theories, Ask the more relevant question, Wait for the answer, Eat because it's logical and it's going to be cold


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mechanicalgirl39
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18 Nov 2010, 11:37 am

SuperApsie wrote:
Excellent thing that you question yourself.

Quote:
I don't like variety in what I eat. People say I'm spoiled. But what about them? They can't eat the same thing over and over again, so how come I don't have the right to call them spoiled for needing variety?

You have to take the quote in the context. Something is served and you're picky. If you choose not to eat, it will be understood that you place a greater value into your own taste rather than in the social aspect of eating what was made with effort for enjoyment.
Then it depends on the food, is that food really so alien, so special you could have a reason for hating it (fat texture, vegetarianism, unusual taste...) but if the food you have in front of you is standard. They have the right to say you are spoiled

Variety is needed for the human organism. That's a first assumption that counter your claim. Then if you go for the extreme and find the people who do search variety at all costs, you are looking into something not common, and have nothing to do with the context of watching your food getting cold.

Quote:
Many people with AS have a really strong need for things to be fair. We're sort of idealistic, maybe even a little childlike in this

Again, think. this is not "fairness" thinking, this is symmetry thinking. Sometimes you might have the chance that both match, but as stated before it is always symmetric.
Our process of thinking is good, but we NEED to expand the logic to progress in the society. When something seems unlogical or unfair: ask yourself questions, because THIS is the window where you can grip ideas and make things clear. It is only then you'll master fairness.

Quote:
People like to socialize, and I like to pursue my own interests. If these two conflicted, they will absolutely not take into account my need to do my own stuff, since socializing is the "normal" thing to do.

Same symmetry around time scheduling. Cannot be relevant alone: socializing might lead you to someone that knows enough to put your interests on steroids, will for sure lead you to talk about your interests, might get you a job in your interests, might increase and shape your interests with the perspective of the world.

Don't expect fairness to pop straight out from our brain, it require work, symmetry is good only if it is complete, expand it, or it would be unfair for all the value you put in it.
Observe, Notice the defect, Emit theories, Ask the more relevant question, Wait for the answer, Eat because it's logical and it's going to be cold


I kinda have to disagree there.

I don't see how it's fair to expect someone to pretend to enjoy eating something they hate. That's selfish.


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18 Nov 2010, 11:39 am

I know how you mean (OP).

People casually call me a wimp for spasming up in agony under bright sunlight, especially if there are lots of pale surfaces about, without a second thought. (my eyes are discharging just recalling one such incident >.<)

Can I casually call them 'runts' or 'weak' if they ask me to find something in the middle of a black out when they're blind and I'm not? LOL...


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18 Nov 2010, 11:40 am

the world doesn't revolve around you



Vector
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18 Nov 2010, 11:43 am

Kilroy wrote:
the world doesn't revolve around you


No, but I can only see it from my perspective.


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mechanicalgirl39
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18 Nov 2010, 11:45 am

Kilroy wrote:
the world doesn't revolve around you


Nope, but there is a limit to how important social customs are.


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tomboy4good
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18 Nov 2010, 11:45 am

This is a problem that's plagued me as long as I can remember. I have no idea how to fix it though.


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Kilroy
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18 Nov 2010, 11:52 am

mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
the world doesn't revolve around you


Nope, but there is a limit to how important social customs are.


people with AS need to understand, that a lot of time people are tying to help you
my parents were and I am glad for it because I've learned to overcome those problems and can live easier



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18 Nov 2010, 11:58 am

Kilroy wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
the world doesn't revolve around you


Nope, but there is a limit to how important social customs are.


people with AS need to understand, that a lot of time people are tying to help you
my parents were and I am glad for it because I've learned to overcome those problems and can live easier


Except that sometimes, the 'help' is not help.

Real help is understanding someone, not forcing pointless social rituals in their face.


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18 Nov 2010, 12:00 pm

and look at all the people here who have gotten "help" they look so happy don't they



SuperApsie
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18 Nov 2010, 12:35 pm

mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
I kinda have to disagree there.

I don't see how it's fair to expect someone to pretend to enjoy eating something they hate. That's selfish.


I did not ask him to go to the point he has to pretend to enjoy. And if he "hate" something common like spinach for instance, "you're spoiled" would be over the top. There is a pattern strong enough that the OP tried to find a coherent logic and to post in a forum to complain. I say: check the logic it might be wrong! And just eat because the world does not evolve around you dietary preferences and even if you prove it unfair the world won't change for you.

Quote:
Real help is understanding someone, not forcing pointless social rituals in their face.


Real help is explaining that what seems "pointless social rituals", are not pointless at all. We all understand the people starving, are we helping? We give them only food and they are still starving but start to depend on us. Expand the logic, get the truth and maybe you'll find a workaround to change the world.


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18 Nov 2010, 12:50 pm

SuperApsie wrote:
Excellent thing that you question yourself.

Quote:
I don't like variety in what I eat. People say I'm spoiled. But what about them? They can't eat the same thing over and over again, so how come I don't have the right to call them spoiled for needing variety?

You have to take the quote in the context. Something is served and you're picky. If you choose not to eat, it will be understood that you place a greater value into your own taste rather than in the social aspect of eating what was made with effort for enjoyment.
Then it depends on the food, is that food really so alien, so special you could have a reason for hating it (fat texture, vegetarianism, unusual taste...) but if the food you have in front of you is standard. They have the right to say you are spoiled.

If you're not a "picky eater" you do not understand what it's like . It's NOT just a matter of preference. Some "standard" foods I literally have a difficult time getting down without gagging.