Cyber spying/stalking, am I obsessed and a creep

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hyperlexian
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01 Jan 2011, 1:43 pm

TheWeirdPig wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
to be honest, i can't understand why people drag a relationship on and on and on when they are clearly no longer in love. that is far weirder to me.


Because they're responsible enough to figure out the reasons for falling out of love. Maybe because they're responsible enough to see that there are reasons other than being in love to have relationships.

But of course, I am weird. Hence the moniker TheWeirdPig.

i disagree that it is a responsible perspective. an alternative perspective only. i think love is an absolutely integral part of every relationship, so if it does not exist then the relationship is pointless. there are additional reasons for a relationship, but i think they are 100% irrelevant in the absence of love. this is not a less "responsible" perspective, just a different one.

EDIT: forgot to mention - yes, lots of people break up and get back together, but that is not the same thing as falling completely out of love and wanting nothing more to do with a person. people break up for a myriad of reasons, and a switch turning "off" is only one reason.



Last edited by hyperlexian on 01 Jan 2011, 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
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01 Jan 2011, 1:59 pm

TheWeirdPig wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
and no, the switch is never, ever turned back "on" again. not possible in my case.


I'm glad you're pointing out that this is your case. You almost say that this this the way it is with everyone and always. But people are breaking up and getting back together all the time. A friend of mine recently re-married his ex-wife. Somehow the switch must have been turned back on with her (because I don't know the whole story, but I'm pretty sure he initiated them getting back together).

In my case it's fairly naive to say that it's as simple as one switch. There seemed to be multiple factors that occurred over time. But there has been time, and there has been space. She was able to get away and I never tried to stop her. I was the good martyr here, never complaining about her leading me on, misrepresenting herself when entering the relationship, and then not keeping her word. But in our society she doesn't owe me nothing because a unexplained mystery switch went off that must mean it's the will of God and the universe and I, TheWeirdPig, should never mess with the will of God and the universe. And the will of God and the universe supersedes her needing to be honest, keep her word, or have integrity.

Ok, I'm starting to become a bit sarcastic here. I really don't believe that some switch went off due to God's will or the cosmos aligning themselves in any certain order. I think that some of her unresolved emotional baggage came to the forefront and she believed remaining in the relationship would cause her to deal with it, and that was just too scary for her so she ran away. I think she was so scared that honesty and integrity and responsibility were the furthest thing from her mind. Besides, I think that she believes herself to be so unlikable that she believed I really wouldn't be hurt by her exit.

Here's the thing. As long as there are people feeding her ideas that switches go on and off for unexplained reasons, she's going to continue to believe that. She will continue to run away from dealing with her baggage. And as Catholic as she is, I can even believe she may even think that not having a relationship with me is God's will even though there is part of her that really likes me.

Of course being the skeptic that I am, I need to question my own theory. Maybe this really is the will of God, or the cosmos aligning themselves.

there isn't always a reason for everything. sometimes a woman is just not that into you, and it is apparent that you cannot accept that on any level. people on a internet forum can argue your points, but the issue is something that you have to deal with inside yourself and not externally.

even if you somehow convinced one person on this thread that you are somehow "right" or "correct" it will not help you in any way. this would not bring the woman back to you, it would not force her to explain anything, it would not change your feelings, it would not out you in a healthier place where you are better able to build new relationships. it would only entrench you in the same old mindset, which i absolutely guarantee will not help you in the long run.



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01 Jan 2011, 2:07 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i disagree that it is a responsible perspective. an alternative perspective only. i think love is an absolutely integral part of every relationship, so if it does not exist then the relationship is pointless. there are additional reasons for a relationship, but i think they are 100% irrelevant in the absence of love. this is not a less "responsible" perspective, just a different one.

EDIT: forgot to mention - yes, lots of people break up and get back together, but that is not the same thing as falling completely out of love and wanting nothing more to do with a person. people break up for a myriad of reasons, and a switch turning "off" is only one reason.


The whole thing about love being the most important aspect of a relationship, is that a Western cultural thing? I remember reading somewhere that "romantic love" is not as idealized in Japan as it is in the West, for example.



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01 Jan 2011, 3:21 pm

TheWeirdPig wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
and no, the switch is never, ever turned back "on" again. not possible in my case.


I'm glad you're pointing out that this is your case. You almost say that this this the way it is with everyone and always. But people are breaking up and getting back together all the time. A friend of mine recently re-married his ex-wife. Somehow the switch must have been turned back on with her (because I don't know the whole story, but I'm pretty sure he initiated them getting back together).

In my case it's fairly naive to say that it's as simple as one switch. There seemed to be multiple factors that occurred over time. But there has been time, and there has been space. She was able to get away and I never tried to stop her. I was the good martyr here, never complaining about her leading me on, misrepresenting herself when entering the relationship, and then not keeping her word. But in our society she doesn't owe me nothing because a unexplained mystery switch went off that must mean it's the will of God and the universe and I, TheWeirdPig, should never mess with the will of God and the universe. And the will of God and the universe supersedes her needing to be honest, keep her word, or have integrity.

Ok, I'm starting to become a bit sarcastic here. I really don't believe that some switch went off due to God's will or the cosmos aligning themselves in any certain order. I think that some of her unresolved emotional baggage came to the forefront and she believed remaining in the relationship would cause her to deal with it, and that was just too scary for her so she ran away. I think she was so scared that honesty and integrity and responsibility were the furthest thing from her mind. Besides, I think that she believes herself to be so unlikable that she believed I really wouldn't be hurt by her exit.

Here's the thing. As long as there are people feeding her ideas that switches go on and off for unexplained reasons, she's going to continue to believe that. She will continue to run away from dealing with her baggage. And as Catholic as she is, I can even believe she may even think that not having a relationship with me is God's will even though there is part of her that really likes me.

Of course being the skeptic that I am, I need to question my own theory. Maybe this really is the will of God, or the cosmos aligning themselves.


:lol: @ the will of God and the cosmos aligning itself....you express very well how I view this societal uber-respect of the "ability to walk away with no consequence and no expectation to explain"...

~Kate


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01 Jan 2011, 3:25 pm

alexptrans wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i disagree that it is a responsible perspective. an alternative perspective only. i think love is an absolutely integral part of every relationship, so if it does not exist then the relationship is pointless. there are additional reasons for a relationship, but i think they are 100% irrelevant in the absence of love. this is not a less "responsible" perspective, just a different one.

EDIT: forgot to mention - yes, lots of people break up and get back together, but that is not the same thing as falling completely out of love and wanting nothing more to do with a person. people break up for a myriad of reasons, and a switch turning "off" is only one reason.


The whole thing about love being the most important aspect of a relationship, is that a Western cultural thing? I remember reading somewhere that "romantic love" is not as idealized in Japan as it is in the West, for example.

probably. like all other human beings, i am definitely a product of the culture i was raised in.

i would not say that either culture is inherently better, all i can say is what works for me (and the people around me) in the context of my own culture.



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01 Jan 2011, 3:28 pm

Meow101 wrote:
TheWeirdPig wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
and no, the switch is never, ever turned back "on" again. not possible in my case.


I'm glad you're pointing out that this is your case. You almost say that this this the way it is with everyone and always. But people are breaking up and getting back together all the time. A friend of mine recently re-married his ex-wife. Somehow the switch must have been turned back on with her (because I don't know the whole story, but I'm pretty sure he initiated them getting back together).

In my case it's fairly naive to say that it's as simple as one switch. There seemed to be multiple factors that occurred over time. But there has been time, and there has been space. She was able to get away and I never tried to stop her. I was the good martyr here, never complaining about her leading me on, misrepresenting herself when entering the relationship, and then not keeping her word. But in our society she doesn't owe me nothing because a unexplained mystery switch went off that must mean it's the will of God and the universe and I, TheWeirdPig, should never mess with the will of God and the universe. And the will of God and the universe supersedes her needing to be honest, keep her word, or have integrity.

Ok, I'm starting to become a bit sarcastic here. I really don't believe that some switch went off due to God's will or the cosmos aligning themselves in any certain order. I think that some of her unresolved emotional baggage came to the forefront and she believed remaining in the relationship would cause her to deal with it, and that was just too scary for her so she ran away. I think she was so scared that honesty and integrity and responsibility were the furthest thing from her mind. Besides, I think that she believes herself to be so unlikable that she believed I really wouldn't be hurt by her exit.

Here's the thing. As long as there are people feeding her ideas that switches go on and off for unexplained reasons, she's going to continue to believe that. She will continue to run away from dealing with her baggage. And as Catholic as she is, I can even believe she may even think that not having a relationship with me is God's will even though there is part of her that really likes me.

Of course being the skeptic that I am, I need to question my own theory. Maybe this really is the will of God, or the cosmos aligning themselves.


:lol: @ the will of God and the cosmos aligning itself....you express very well how I view this societal uber-respect of the "ability to walk away with no consequence and no expectation to explain"...

~Kate

where did i (or anyone) say that it is okay to walk away and never explain? some of us said that we think that expecting consequences for not explaining is unreasonable, but that does not translate into any sort of "societal uber-respect", or other such nonsense.



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01 Jan 2011, 3:31 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
even if you somehow convinced one person on this thread that you are somehow "right" or "correct" it will not help you in any way. this would not bring the woman back to you, it would not force her to explain anything, it would not change your feelings, it would not out you in a healthier place where you are better able to build new relationships. it would only entrench you in the same old mindset, which i absolutely guarantee will not help you in the long run.


He *is* right. No one is talking about forcing anyone to do anything. As far as a "healthier" place, I do not know if it is indeed healthier to just accept that someone is being hurtful and to accept on the whole a larger environment where this kind of hurtful behavior is not only tolerated, but also given a higher level of respectability than the need to have a basic level of knowledge and closure on a mature level (NOTE that I am not talking about stalking, cyberstalking, incessantly bothering people, or anything illegal or excessively disruptive, but merely the encouragement of mature discussion whereby the dump-ee gets a decent explanation and answers to reasonable questions).

What I am questioning here is this unquestioning acceptance of walking away with no explanation as perfectly reasonable, acceptable behavior.

~Kate


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01 Jan 2011, 3:36 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
where did i (or anyone) say that it is okay to walk away and never explain? some of us said that we think that expecting consequences for not explaining is unreasonable, but that does not translate into any sort of "societal uber-respect", or other such nonsense.


I didn't say you said that.

What I pick up from this whole thread, with a few notable exceptions (nemerosa, TheWeirdPig sallamandrina) is a prevailing attitude of "s/he doesn't owe you anything, not even an explanation, just move on, it's unhealthy to even think about changing these attitudes lest we condone cyber/stalking, etc etc etc". To my mind, based on my very painful experiences (two in 40+ years, one with a close friend and one with a romantic partner) this sort of behavior is hurtful, destructive, and ought to be the one under scrutiny, NOT the pain of those of us who find it hard to move on. THEY should be the ones urged to change, NOT us (unless we are engaging in illegal or disruptive behavior as a result).

~Kate


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01 Jan 2011, 5:59 pm

I'm still playing out hyperlexians scenario in my head:

hyperlexian: I love you!
Boyfriend: I love you too! Why don't we watch a movie together?
hyperlexian: Good Idea!
boyfriend puts movie on. AT 47 minutes into the film:
hyperlexian: I don't love you anymore.
boyfriend: What?!
hyperlexian: Sorry, a switch just flipped and I no longer have any feelings for you.
boyfriend: But...but...but
hyperlexian: I'm off to pack my things and move out.
boyfriend: I don't understand! What went wrong? Can't you please explain to me what's going on? I'm so confused!
hyperlexian: Listen up dude, I don't owe you anything! You got that? I'm going, so long....

Yes, I exaggerate to make a point, but doesn't that whole scenario sound crazy? That is what is being suggested is an acceptable way to end the relationship. My mind melts; It just cannot comprehend.



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01 Jan 2011, 6:24 pm

nemorosa wrote:
I'm still playing out hyperlexians scenario in my head:

hyperlexian: I love you!
Boyfriend: I love you too! Why don't we watch a movie together?
hyperlexian: Good Idea!
boyfriend puts movie on. AT 47 minutes into the film:
hyperlexian: I don't love you anymore.
boyfriend: What?!
hyperlexian: Sorry, a switch just flipped and I no longer have any feelings for you.
boyfriend: But...but...but
hyperlexian: I'm off to pack my things and move out.
boyfriend: I don't understand! What went wrong? Can't you please explain to me what's going on? I'm so confused!
hyperlexian: Listen up dude, I don't owe you anything! You got that? I'm going, so long....

Yes, I exaggerate to make a point, but doesn't that whole scenario sound crazy? That is what is being suggested is an acceptable way to end the relationship. My mind melts; It just cannot comprehend.

you're becoming quite obsessed with my past relationships, aren't you? i thought we agreed to disagree... or i guess you just thought it would be fun to come back and mock me for what you do not understand?

perhaps you would like to lay yourself on the line, and offer some relationship experiences for me to mock?

(and i didn't ever walk away with no explanation. there was always an explanation given, and i wouldn't talk to anyone like you have characterized there.)



Last edited by hyperlexian on 01 Jan 2011, 6:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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01 Jan 2011, 6:27 pm

@nemerosa When you put it like that it does sound crazy, but I don't think that's what hyper means.

There are always reasons for stopping to like or love someone but this doesn't mean we're always aware of them or able to understand and express them. Sometimes people realise their feelings have changed, but can't explain how and why even to themselves, but you expect them to give you a fully comprehensive and logical explanation?

Or maybe the feelings started changing a while ago and "the switch" is just the moment when one becomes aware of it - many people on the spectrum don't have such a good emotional awareness.

Either way, I appreciate her perspective and honesty and don't understand why you try to ridicule what she says - it's only hers and her husband's business and since they are happy together that's all that matters.


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01 Jan 2011, 6:30 pm

nemorosa wrote:
I'm still playing out hyperlexians scenario in my head:

hyperlexian: I love you!
Boyfriend: I love you too! Why don't we watch a movie together?
hyperlexian: Good Idea!
boyfriend puts movie on. AT 47 minutes into the film:
hyperlexian: I don't love you anymore.
boyfriend: What?!
hyperlexian: Sorry, a switch just flipped and I no longer have any feelings for you.
boyfriend: But...but...but
hyperlexian: I'm off to pack my things and move out.
boyfriend: I don't understand! What went wrong? Can't you please explain to me what's going on? I'm so confused!
hyperlexian: Listen up dude, I don't owe you anything! You got that? I'm going, so long....

Yes, I exaggerate to make a point, but doesn't that whole scenario sound crazy? That is what is being suggested is an acceptable way to end the relationship. My mind melts; It just cannot comprehend.


Well, given that this is a known exaggeration, I have to say that (exaggeration taken into account) this is generally the kind of thing that put my mind into such a tailspin. It wasn't QUITE that fast and that abrupt, but almost so, and the actual breakup was preceded by a month of being very distant which was also only vaguely explained and if I tried to question I had the actual breakup to deal with. Finally I couldn't handle the distancing anymore and I confronted it head on and I got the breakup. If I couldn't understand the distancing I sure as hell couldn't understand the breakup :cry:

Now, keep in mind that I am an Aspie and I don't get subtle or implied clues, and sometimes I don't understand subtexts or even implications of emotional things, which is why I can't bear to just call him a jerk and dispense with him without having a few questions answered. I might not have "got" something or I might have misunderstood something....but it's messing with my head big time and I just wish I could get an explanation. I really don't need much...just some closure and some understanding.

~Kate


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01 Jan 2011, 6:37 pm

Sallamandrina wrote:
@nemerosa When you put it like that it does sound crazy, but I don't think that's what hyper means.

There are always reasons for stopping to like or love someone but this doesn't mean we're always aware of them or able to understand and express them. Sometimes people realise their feelings have changed, but can't explain how and why even to themselves, but you expect them to give you a fully comprehensive and logical explanation?

Or maybe the feelings started changing a while ago and "the switch" is just the moment when one becomes aware of it - many people on the spectrum don't have such a good emotional awareness.

Either way, I appreciate her perspective and honesty and don't understand why you try to ridicule what she says - it's only hers and her husband's business and since they are happy together that's all that matters.


I don't think he was trying to ridicule. I think it was an exaggeration for the purpose of illustration. I got what he meant. It's hard to get your mind around it when someone rather quickly goes cold on you...especially if you're an aspie. I think that's my biggest issue, and the OPs as well. Maybe it's true that things are going south a bit earlier and we don't see it....that's one reason I've not been calling my ex "the biggest schmuck in the world" because it IS possible he was trying to communicate something to me that I missed---I wish he'd have TOLD me so I can learn, though, and so that I don't think it was something horrible about me. The "dump and run" strategy is especially bad in the case of an aspie because we do need to learn from our experiences and this doesn't allow it. I don't know how to protect myself from this kind of pain any better now than I did before this relationship. I got into this situation because I couldn't learn from the earlier one. Maybe if we didn't take the attitude that it's okay to just jettison people like old trash, and they should just "suck it up", all of us might do better, Aspie or not.

~Kate


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01 Jan 2011, 6:41 pm

Sallamandrina wrote:
@nemerosa When you put it like that it does sound crazy, but I don't think that's what hyper means.

There are always reasons for stopping to like or love someone but this doesn't mean we're always aware of them or able to understand and express them. Sometimes people realise their feelings have changed, but can't explain how and why even to themselves, but you expect them to give you a fully comprehensive and logical explanation?

Or maybe the feelings started changing a while ago and "the switch" is just the moment when one becomes aware of it - many people on the spectrum don't have such a good emotional awareness.

Either way, I appreciate her perspective and honesty and don't understand why you try to ridicule what she says - it's only hers and her husband's business and since they are happy together that's all that matters.

yes, exactly. both examples. it's like i suddenly know, absolutely, at a certain point that i am not at all in love with that person anymore (if it was even love to begin with - it may have been infatuation only). up until that point i believed that there was a chance that it could work out. perhaps i was even just deluding myself before that moment, but i cannot tell. no amount of reflection, careful discernment, or evaluation uncovered anything else except that it wasn't "right".

there definitely may sometimes have been factors leading up to it, but the came to a head in a moment of clarity, when i suddenly would know that this other person was not the person i was going to spend the rest of my life with.

i think that when you really love someone, you overlook a lot of things, but when you don't really love them, those things are not overlooked. so my husband (who i am in love with) could have a bad habit that i would not have tolerated in anybody else, and therefore it could not be considered a reasonable factor in a prior breakup. the small factors or irritants are not real reasons - the real reason was that i was not in love with those people anymore (if ever).

luckily i trusted that instinct because it brought me to the place where i am at right now.



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01 Jan 2011, 6:46 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
you're becoming quite obsessed with my past relationships, aren't you? i thought we agreed to disagree... or i guess you just thought it would be fun to come back and mock me for what you do not understand?

perhaps you would like to lay yourself on the line, and offer some relationship experiences for me to mock?

(and i didn't ever walk away with no explanation. there was always an explanation given, and i wouldn't talk to anyone like you have characterized there.)


You are right, I do not understand. It is not my intention to mock at all, only to highlight in the most obvious way I know how (perhaps it was crass), the apparent absurdity of the situation. It was you who provided a template for my example, nothing more. In retrospect, maybe I should have altered the details somewhat, so I'm truly most sorry if you have taken offence.

We had agreed (or so I had thought) that or experiences and thought processes were alien to one another. I didn't realise I was therefore unable to muse over the issues that had been raised.

FYI, I was always the dumpee with no explanation given until I began my present relationship 18 years ago. I still wonder about the reasons for those rejections years ago, long after they should no longer matter. My aspie brain craves explanations. To not know is like an itch that can never be scratched.



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01 Jan 2011, 6:47 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i think that when you really love someone, you overlook a lot of things, but when you don't really love them, those things are not overlooked. so my husband (who i am in love with) could have a bad habit that i would not have tolerated in anybody else, and therefore it could not be considered a reasonable factor in a prior breakup. the small factors or irritants are not real reasons - the real reason was that i was not in love with those people anymore (if ever).


Spot on - I know for a fact that my husband has traits and habits I couldn't tolerate in anyone else before. :lol:

I wonder if anyone realises that some of those who didn't offer a fully comprehensive explanation might have been unable to do it, not just inconsiderate and selfish.

PS And no offence Kate, you seem to think I agree with your POV, while I'm not - I'm actually just trying to understand how people feel without taking sides.


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