Asperger's eliminated from the DSM V?

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vetwithAS
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17 Dec 2010, 1:03 am

pensieve wrote:
Who cares if AS is cool or not? Btw it's not cool, from the way I've seen NT's look at it.


That's because NTs don't understand it for the most part



bucephalus
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17 Dec 2010, 1:22 am

pensieve wrote:
Who cares if AS is cool or not? Btw it's not cool, from the way I've seen NT's look at it.


I think it is something that could become 'cool' in the future especially if people make references to Einstein etc. I'm not bothered tho as I'm certainly not of the 'us and them' militant aspie persuasion



theexternvoid
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17 Dec 2010, 10:56 am

I noticed that the DSM-V has a severity tab that has a note saying that will be figured out later. Perhaps they will make sub-categories there and name them. The name Asperger's might live on there. Anyone know when that's due to be completed?



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17 Dec 2010, 10:59 am

I think people are talking specifically about the name of the condition, not the criteria. Also if you met the old criteria then they still think of you as autistic from what I've been told.


DandelionFireworks wrote:
I am very, very Not Happy. I don't fit the new criteria. I will not be able to call myself autistic. I will not be able to call myself an Aspie. This is taking, among other things, my ability to say that I am a member of this group.

Anyone like me will not get a diagnosis. The new criteria suck. The old criteria also suck, but less.

I'm not sure it's a step in the wrong direction so much as it fails to do anything. Except I guess it is. It's a baby step in the wrong direction, when what's needed is for us to cover a million miles in the right one.

I suppose it doesn't matter. I'm a dandelion anyway, and whether they call me autistic, Asperger's, PDD-NOS or NT, that doesn't change.

If Einstein had a speech delay, that means he didn't have Asperger's. This is what annoys me about the spectrum-- regardless of whether or not you fit the criteria or how you think, people like to define AS as "really high-functioning and bluntly honest" and autism as "awful soulless shells" and then deny that someone who fits the diagnostic criteria is autistic (must be AS) because they're not a dead end or worthless.

Screw the criteria. I'm a dandelion, which I am now defining as a person who fits all or all but one of the following criteria:
1. At least half the time has one or two special interests, or historically has had them
2. Uses or interprets body language in one or more nonstandard ways
3. Has one or more of the following:
i. Unusual sensory perceptions (hypersensitive, hyposensitive, etc.)
ii. Difficulty recognizing faces (prosopagnosia)
iii. Perceives things as raw sensory data, rather than with meaning (e.g., "that is a rectangular patch of light comprised of many rectangular patches and some that look like rectangles with holes in them in which the other rectangles fit, as well as some blue and green marks toward the upper left, some gray marks toward the center but kind of toward the right, some light blue vertical bars..." as opposed to "oh, look, that's a computer screen on which someone's composing a message on WrongPlanet")
iv. Difficulty with or nonstandard use of language
4. One or more of the following:
i. Odd stuff like not letting the things on your plate touch, or always visiting a specific place at a specific time on a specific day of the week
ii. Sensitivity to fluorescent lights
iii. Lacks in-group/out-group dichotomy (favoritism)
iv. Less than normal need/desire for friends
v. IQ tests fail to predict performance in life, or fail to predict performance on other IQ tests
vi. NTs react as if this person has offended them, despite the dandelion being sure that the NT's offense is completely out of the blue, or believing it's deserved but not having any idea what they did to deserve it

In fact, I think I'll make a thread about this.


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17 Dec 2010, 12:44 pm

I say either define Asperger's as a different diagnosis with different symptoms (more so than the debatable differences as of today), or merge it into the Autism spectrum as suggested has been/is being done.

Charles



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17 Dec 2010, 1:29 pm

One of the main differences between AS and autism in the DSM-IV is the lack of a language delay in early childhood. Otherwise for all practical purposes, AS and high functioning autism look pretty much identical when diagnosed in adults.



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17 Dec 2010, 1:42 pm

I'm in agreement with Dandelion Fireworks. This proposed merger sucks ass.

The hidden agenda behind it is purely political - a cheap excuse for cost-cutting on the part of elitist, penny-pinching governments who intend to use the recession as a moral basis for cutting off financial and moral support for anyone who isn't obviously disabled enough to be confused with Stephen Hawking after a lobotomy.

Merging AS with high functioning autism will lead to fewer AS diagnoses, less practical support for AS diagnosees in the workplace, which in turn will lead to higher unemployment amongst the undiagnosed who still struggle with the same symptoms and - by extension - a higher rate of alcoholism, heart disease and suicide.


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17 Dec 2010, 2:20 pm

Locustman wrote:
I'm in agreement with Dandelion Fireworks. This proposed merger sucks ass.

The hidden agenda behind it is purely political - a cheap excuse for cost-cutting on the part of elitist, penny-pinching governments who intend to use the recession as a moral basis for cutting off financial and moral support for anyone who isn't obviously disabled enough to be confused with Stephen Hawking after a lobotomy.

Merging AS with high functioning autism will lead to fewer AS diagnoses, less practical support for AS diagnosees in the workplace, which in turn will lead to higher unemployment amongst the undiagnosed who still struggle with the same symptoms and - by extension - a higher rate of alcoholism, heart disease and suicide.


I don't know. DSM-V works a bit differently from previous versions of the DSM in the sense that they're going use a dimensional scale rating from severe to mild. They've also said that they want to design it in such a way that anyone who qualified and received support for an AS diagnosis before, should still fall on that scale now. So I wouldn't worry about losing support just yet. However, there are also some valid concerns about merging Asperger's with autism in one diagnosis - both Tony Attwood and prof Simon-Baron Cohen are not happy with it.



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17 Dec 2010, 3:06 pm

Aesthetically speaking, I like the sound of the word "autistic" over the word "Asperger." But I do realize also that autism has significantly negative connotations in the public consciousness. I see the point of the change, and if I get the diagnosis I expect, I will not mind being called autistic.



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17 Dec 2010, 3:47 pm

If it means that the word "Aspie" will finally die, then I'm all for it.


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17 Dec 2010, 5:30 pm

Maybe we should call someone as having an Aspie personality that makes it very hard to utilize your abilities/talents in social context because of the inherent nature of your personality-type (sensory, executive function, verbal memory and social anxiety issues). I really don't care about fullfilling DSM criteria. All I care about is understanding why it's so difficult for me to fit into society, especially in the workplace.



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17 Dec 2010, 5:58 pm

Regardless of it merging or not, everyone will wake up the same person tomorrow they are today.



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17 Dec 2010, 5:58 pm

Kon wrote:
Maybe we should call someone as having an Aspie personality that makes it very hard to utilize your abilities/talents in social context because of the inherent nature of your personality-type (sensory, executive function, verbal memory and social anxiety issues). I really don't care about fullfilling DSM criteria. All I care about is understanding why it's so difficult for me to fit into society, especially in the workplace.


You're now high-functioning autistic.


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17 Dec 2010, 6:30 pm

Jono wrote:
Locustman wrote:
I'm in agreement with Dandelion Fireworks. This proposed merger sucks ass.

The hidden agenda behind it is purely political - a cheap excuse for cost-cutting on the part of elitist, penny-pinching governments who intend to use the recession as a moral basis for cutting off financial and moral support for anyone who isn't obviously disabled enough to be confused with Stephen Hawking after a lobotomy.

Merging AS with high functioning autism will lead to fewer AS diagnoses, less practical support for AS diagnosees in the workplace, which in turn will lead to higher unemployment amongst the undiagnosed who still struggle with the same symptoms and - by extension - a higher rate of alcoholism, heart disease and suicide.


I don't know. DSM-V works a bit differently from previous versions of the DSM in the sense that they're going use a dimensional scale rating from severe to mild. They've also said that they want to design it in such a way that anyone who qualified and received support for an AS diagnosis before, should still fall on that scale now. So I wouldn't worry about losing support just yet. However, there are also some valid concerns about merging Asperger's with autism in one diagnosis - both Tony Attwood and prof Simon-Baron Cohen are not happy with it.


Their proposed way of looking at severe to mild is incredibly superficial and disturbing. It's like "how often does the person show repetitive behavior," "how unsocial is the person", and stuff like that. It doesn't show any of the more extreme problems that autistic people can have. Not that I believe in any scale from severe to mild, but this one is worse than most. And the fact that they're changing the diagnostic criteria to remove all communication-related criteria is also disturbing for the many autistic people where communication-related criteria figure heavily in them being diagnosed at all.

The thing is, though, this thread is about them being merged, not about the criteria they're using to merge them. The criteria suck, completely and totally, beyond all doubt. But the idea of Asperger's being eliminated is wonderful and long overdue according to most autism experts including the one who invented Asperger's. They're two separate issues, and I really don't like the fact that they're being conflated so that a person seemingly can't like one and hate the other.


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17 Dec 2010, 8:44 pm

anbuend wrote:
The thing is, though, this thread is about them being merged, not about the criteria they're using to merge them. The criteria suck, completely and totally, beyond all doubt. But the idea of Asperger's being eliminated is wonderful and long overdue according to most autism experts including the one who invented Asperger's. They're two separate issues, and I really don't like the fact that they're being conflated so that a person seemingly can't like one and hate the other.


Good point. If it were just a matter of giving us all the same name, that wouldn't be a problem. I also wouldn't mind if the spectrum were broken up in ways that fall along actual lines of division in mental processing. Ideally, they'd all be part of the common category of autism, which we could then talk about in general without being accused of not really being it. But just due to the fact that it's a stupid classification (and would be confusing and has gotten connotations that are best dropped), I don't think any of them ought to be Aspeger's.


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17 Dec 2010, 10:35 pm

I'm fine with the it. Hopefully it will make some people change their views on what they think autism is (the stereotypes some people have).


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