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If a women chooses to abort a developing life form tested with autism?
It Makes Her Bad. 37%  37%  [ 14 ]
That is her private choice. 63%  63%  [ 24 ]
Total votes : 38

Verdandi
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03 Jan 2011, 7:35 pm

As far as I know, ASAN doesn't attack women for choosing to have abortions. This issue isn't about controlling whether women can have abortions. It's about cultural expectations that the only lives worth living are those lived by people who don't have disabilities.

This is why ASAN is against earlier and earlier identification as opposed to funding more services and support for families with autistic children.

Constantly making it about women's right to an abortion is a sidetrack.

I am a woman and absolutely pro-choice. I do not find any conflict between this and the above. I am not a member of ASAN, either.

Also, while trying to paint ASAN as anti-woman, I think it's fair to point out that something like half the ASAN chapters are run by women.



ci
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03 Jan 2011, 7:41 pm

This issue is not solely about ASAN but ASAN has made clear opposition to selective abortion so said as eugenics. This topic however is centered around the perceptions about abortion. The issue of early detection is a quality of life issue and when ASAN dislikes it then it has to do with abortion in context which it opposes and is a bias to human rights. Any attempt to prevent early detection is a potential violation of human rights for an individual with autisms rights to treatment and quality of life.

ASAN would fair off better by allowing open and public debate by means of it's platform.



Malisha
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03 Jan 2011, 8:25 pm

On this issue, i think I will refer to/paraphrase something that Temple Grandin has had a lot to say about.
It takes all kinds of minds to be successful as the human race. stamping out neurodiversity can only have calamitous effects. Autism genetics can cause a lot of problems, but they also are responsible for some of the greatest human advancements. So many geniuses, inventors, physicists, etc., have had or have been suspected to have been autistic to some degree! The extreme and obsessive focus, the ability to pay attention to minute details and recognize patterns that the "neurotypical" mind cannot is one of the biggest assets that autistic people have to offer. Our strengths lie in our differences.
The myriad factors that go into a person's development cannot be ignored. I think that autism isn't only genetic, but combined with other factors such as environmental triggers as well as things like intelligence and personality. Autism is a spectrum.
I thin that without neurodiversity, the human race would be looking at a bleak future.

That being said, a woman's right to choose to me is sacrosanct. " I don't like what you do, but I will defend to the death your right to do it." Just because you wanted one kind of child and got another is no reason to send it back. Americans especially need to be happier with what they have instead of all the crap they feel they are entitled to. People with Autism, Down's Syndrome, and a lot of other congenital stuff can live perfectly happy and productive lives. It seems sometimes like the more we "progress", the less room there is for diversity. Ugh.

Anyhow. Yes, a woman has the right to choose to abort any pregnancy. No, I don't think it's a good thing to abort a genetically diverse fetus.



ci
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03 Jan 2011, 8:41 pm

The defect in perception reducing included diversity is derived of instinct and is not entitled exclusively to Americans but is much obliged to that of the imperfect human condition as a whole.



Arminius
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03 Jan 2011, 8:50 pm

ci wrote:
The defect in perception reducing included diversity is derived of instinct and is not entitled exclusively to Americans but is much obliged to that of the imperfect human condition as a whole.


True, but, as an American, I agree that a lot of us have an overblown sense of entitlement. We demand that life meets our expectations, which probably does influence some such decisions. I think abortion to get rid of a fetus that might be neurologically different or disabled is immoral under most circumstances. It seems like an unfair reason for a potential person to be denied a chance at life and a horrible statement and harsh judgement on what kind of life society deems worth having. Still, women should have the right to control their own bodies. While such abortions should not be outlawed, society should take a hard look at its values. We should try to make it less culturally acceptable while preserving a woman's right to choose.



ci
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03 Jan 2011, 8:53 pm

This compromise in perception is the most neutral and probable of successful outcome.



J0lt
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11 Jan 2011, 9:52 pm

A choice that one person has a right to make can be a horrible thing if many people make it. Look at the skewed male to female ratio in China and parts of India due to sex selective abortion. ASAN has never called for limiting any woman's right to choose (and if they had, I would not align myself with them, as I am a woman who does not want children and I would not want laws that would prevent me from remaining childfree), but they want to discourage societal attitudes that would lead to the widespread abortion of autists, and to encourage money to be spent on research and services that improve quality of life instead of research towards a prenatal test. Then again, why do I even bother to explain this to you again?



ci
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11 Jan 2011, 10:07 pm

J0lt wrote:
A choice that one person has a right to make can be a horrible thing if many people make it. Look at the skewed male to female ratio in China and parts of India due to sex selective abortion. ASAN has never called for limiting any woman's right to choose (and if they had, I would not align myself with them, as I am a woman who does not want children and I would not want laws that would prevent me from remaining childfree), but they want to discourage societal attitudes that would lead to the widespread abortion of autists, and to encourage money to be spent on research and services that improve quality of life instead of research towards a prenatal test. Then again, why do I even bother to explain this to you again?


The research that could result in a prenatal test is also perceived part of other non-relating issues. Also the KKK is not in charge of research. People are not bigoted for standing up for their children whom want research to help their children. There may be no way around the prenatal testing without direct confrontation on abortion issues. There is a bias on both ends of the autism political spectrum. Neuordiversity wants to paint a rosy picture and pro-research wants to paint a horrid picture. The truth is allot of people with autism need help and as the more able autism people speak about the glory of anti-cure and removing research that could help the more harm they are doing by seeing themselves as civil rights leaders in the right when they are not right all the time and protecting themselves with this for the most part persecutory non-sense.

So if the KKK is not in charge of research who is in charge? The bigots? How much more will Ari and others use the natural oppositional behavior of children and aging adult children toward adult parents to justify comparisons to bigotry and how pro-research parents are kind of like bigots. Both research and the political artists have allot of money gain from stretching peoples imagination. I think desperate parents are more easily understood to be helping their children by being emotional but should Ari try to attempt to make children victims of their parents with comparative rhetoric I really think in the longer-term and even moderate term will fail and will loose it's steam. Just a bit of warning as you can use other peoples anger at the world for only so long before they feel injustice in it.

Nathan Young



Tokiodarling21
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12 Jan 2011, 12:02 am

I'm pro life. sure I care about the mother, But think about it, if you take the life of one child, you're pretty much taking the lives of future generations. I looked at the Autism Genocide Clock online, this is what the cure-hungry crowd has been waiting for.
If this is true, Doctors will scare the mother with the early detection and that will convince her to have an abortion.
This leads me to believe that Genocide may be the only cure to rid the world of us forever. :cry:



ci
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12 Jan 2011, 12:08 am

Tokiodarling21 wrote:
I'm pro life. sure I care about the mother, But think about it, if you take the life of one child, you're pretty much taking the lives of future generations. I looked at the Autism Genocide Clock online, this is what the cure-hungry crowd has been waiting for.
If this is true, Doctors will scare the mother with the early detection and that will convince her to have an abortion.
This leads me to believe that Genocide may be the only cure to rid the world of us forever. :cry:


I am really sorry for your emotions about this issue. I think it's best to tell others how you feel in the most honest ways as possible. I am sure you do not yourself call people Nazi's or refer to them as the KKK. I think it would be wise to be mutually sensitive. This is the extent of what I can say with concern to this subject. It has been a fascinating issue I've followed for some eight years and I wish to tell others try and get along on other issues and the more hate name calling and so on the less successful you will be.

Nathan Young



nostromo
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12 Jan 2011, 3:04 am

Volodja wrote:
Women should be able to get abortions for whatver reason they want. No one else's business

Except the unborn person inside, probably its their business as well. Kinda hard to consult them on it though.