What's exactly what Jesus saves us from?
31 Dec 2010, 10:14 pm
They speak that they were "saved for 19 years". What exactly were they saved from? contraception? life support?
The Bible says that every human being has sinned, which is a word not really in vogue these days, but it is nevertheless a word that means simply doing something that contradicts God's holy character.
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What about little babies who die young? Have they sinned? Are they damned?
ruveyn
Unfortunately death has no age requirement, but I think that even if God had said in one of His 613 commandments that no one would die under the age of 100, my atheist friends would still keep within their worldview the same mindset.
But death in itself is not the main obstacle when all things are considered; rather, it is the result of mankind's rebellion against the knowledge of God and eternity.
Our rebellion against God affects not only our souls but also our bodies; and no one is above being vulnerable to the side effects of sin, young or old.
For instance, in the sinful act of terrorism, a terrorist tosses a hand grenade into a crowd of people, a child may be injured in the grenade blast and an older person may not receive a scratch, or vice verse.
(God may allow evil to exist but that does not mean that God is the cause of evil, any more than for a police officer not to apprehend a bank robber means that the police officer is the cause of bank robbers.)
_________________
Stung by the splendor of a sudden thought. ~ Robert Browning
31 Dec 2010, 10:28 pm
Isaiah 45: 5-7, for consideration:
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
ruveyn, I have not checked the original text yet, just so you know.
31 Dec 2010, 10:47 pm
Jesus saves us from death, namely the death sentace that was passed on Adam before he even had any children, so we where all born with that sentece.
Just as death came through one man Adam, so life correspondingly comes through one Man, Jesus, its called the Ransom sacrifice.
Think about it that if you where on death row for your crimes, strapped into the electric chair and just before they pull the switch, some fella comes along and takes your place, dying so you can live.
Some of us appretiate such an act being done for us, I can understand people not beliveing that a man would do such a thing for another man, but to take the piss of such an action is not something I can comprehend.
31 Dec 2010, 11:02 pm
"Some of us appretiate such an act being done for us, I can understand people not beliveing that a man would do such a thing for another man, but to take the piss of such an action is not something I can comprehend."
Check out the relatively recently canonized - which I for one heartily endorse - Maximilian Kolbe, if anyone doubts.
01 Jan 2011, 8:02 am
But death in itself is not the main obstacle when all things are considered; rather, it is the result of mankind's rebellion against the knowledge of God and eternity.
Our rebellion against God affects not only our souls but also our bodies; and no one is above being vulnerable to the side effects of sin, young or old.
For instance, in the sinful act of terrorism, a terrorist tosses a hand grenade into a crowd of people, a child may be injured in the grenade blast and an older person may not receive a scratch, or vice verse.
(God may allow evil to exist but that does not mean that God is the cause of evil, any more than for a police officer not to apprehend a bank robber means that the police officer is the cause of bank robbers.)
First god tries to drown us, then he damns us. Nice guy that god. That show at Sodom and Gommorah was something.
ruveyn
01 Jan 2011, 8:08 am
Just as death came through one man Adam, so life correspondingly comes through one Man, Jesus, its called the Ransom sacrifice.
Think about it that if you where on death row for your crimes, strapped into the electric chair and just before they pull the switch, some fella comes along and takes your place, dying so you can live.
Some of us appretiate such an act being done for us, I can understand people not beliveing that a man would do such a thing for another man, but to take the piss of such an action is not something I can comprehend.
And think about a god who would require that a very good man should die before he changes his mind and forgives humanity. What possible moral standard does this god have?
01 Jan 2011, 9:53 pm
Just as death came through one man Adam, so life correspondingly comes through one Man, Jesus, its called the Ransom sacrifice.
Think about it that if you where on death row for your crimes, strapped into the electric chair and just before they pull the switch, some fella comes along and takes your place, dying so you can live.
Some of us appretiate such an act being done for us, I can understand people not beliveing that a man would do such a thing for another man, but to take the piss of such an action is not something I can comprehend.
And think about a god who would require that a very good man should die before he changes his mind and forgives humanity. What possible moral standard does this god have?
Maybe you can suggest a better way of doing it?
God gave the warning to Adam, that if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and bad, that he would inherit death.
Adam disobeyed God, what should God then do?, say he was only lying?, like a Father who tells his son if he doesnt behave himself he will get a smack, but doesnt carry out his warning?
And then leave man, now armed with the knowledge of evil to live eternally?, what do you think the world would be like if the likes of Hitler and Stalin never died, just got more powerfull and commiting eveil with no end.
So God carried out his promise, but in his Love and wisdom, he straight away left a promise that he would pay the price of the punishment, thereby enabling the punishment to be carried out, but for it all to be undone so that all those innocents who ever suffered, get a resurrection back to life, leaving the lesson of such disobedience to be learnt, and man experiencing the Love and returning it, of a father that pays the price of our own disobedience.
01 Jan 2011, 10:19 pm
Just as death came through one man Adam, so life correspondingly comes through one Man, Jesus, its called the Ransom sacrifice.
Think about it that if you where on death row for your crimes, strapped into the electric chair and just before they pull the switch, some fella comes along and takes your place, dying so you can live.
Some of us appretiate such an act being done for us, I can understand people not beliveing that a man would do such a thing for another man, but to take the piss of such an action is not something I can comprehend.
And think about a god who would require that a very good man should die before he changes his mind and forgives humanity. What possible moral standard does this god have?
Maybe you can suggest a better way of doing it?
Sure. Let Christ live. Only an old vicious primitive god would demand human sacrifice to get a favor. Of course, if Christ never dies, there's no Christianity. And without Christianity there's no Jewish persecution and Hitler never would have risen t power.
God gave the warning to Adam, that if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and bad, that he would inherit death.
Adam disobeyed God, what should God then do?, say he was only lying?, like a Father who tells his son if he doesnt behave himself he will get a smack, but doesnt carry out his warning?
And then leave man, now armed with the knowledge of evil to live eternally?, what do you think the world would be like if the likes of Hitler and Stalin never died, just got more powerfull and commiting eveil with no end.
So God carried out his promise, but in his Love and wisdom, he straight away left a promise that he would pay the price of the punishment, thereby enabling the punishment to be carried out, but for it all to be undone so that all those innocents who ever suffered, get a resurrection back to life, leaving the lesson of such disobedience to be learnt, and man experiencing the Love and returning it, of a father that pays the price of our own disobedience.
02 Jan 2011, 6:43 am
But death in itself is not the main obstacle when all things are considered; rather, it is the result of mankind's rebellion against the knowledge of God and eternity.
Our rebellion against God affects not only our souls but also our bodies; and no one is above being vulnerable to the side effects of sin, young or old.
For instance, in the sinful act of terrorism, a terrorist tosses a hand grenade into a crowd of people, a child may be injured in the grenade blast and an older person may not receive a scratch, or vice verse.
(God may allow evil to exist but that does not mean that God is the cause of evil, any more than for a police officer not to apprehend a bank robber means that the police officer is the cause of bank robbers.)
First god tries to drown us, then he damns us. Nice guy that god. That show at Sodom and Gommorah was something.
ruveyn
Such a god was understandably tolerated back in those days, but today any person who worships such a being is either a heartless person himself who gets off of terrorizing people and trying to manipulate them with scare tactics and such or simply a sincere person who just happens to be an enabler of God's narcissism, refusing to see the abuse caused by God in the Bible (but otherwise a good person who just needs a wake up slap). Most, if not all, Christian members here are of the second category (the enablers).
02 Jan 2011, 8:37 am
The man who has never travelled thinks his mother is a good cook - proverb
The man who has never learned a foreign language thinks it is like Pig Latin, you just plug in the word for "dog" every place English says "dog" - observation from years of language teaching.
Monkey has NO idea how big the Buddha is. - relevant reference kep somewhat obscuree because I want to be polite.
YOUR god is too small, mon ami.
02 Jan 2011, 11:54 am
Probably the best analogy could be found by watching the movie Toy Story.
As Woody says: "We are all Andy's toys. Our role is to be to be there for him whenever he needs us."
Similarly, we are all God's toys. He can bring us out to the trash, or donate us to another God, whenever he gets tired of playing with us. We are called upon to be useful and amusing to God, or it is, quite simply, off to the trash with us.
The flood occurred while God was still young--very much a child. The Universe itself was, what, a couple of hundred years old at the time? Certainly not more than 1,000. Andy might have ruined a few of his toys, too, when he was too young to know any better.
Eventually, God reached puberty, and, well, impregnated one of his toys--which was his right. Out popped Jesus, whom He loved more than all of His other toys--so much so that He let His other toys crucify him.
Now God has matured a bit. Anyone who really loves Jesus (well, maybe not anyone; you do have to be special) will get to spend eternity in a display case in a museum, where God can admire you, and you can be there for God. If you remain forever pleasing to Him, then you'll never have to be discarded. Ever.
