Why do most NTs have little regard for professionals?

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wblastyn
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03 Jan 2011, 7:02 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

Video of my pastor teaching on evolution

Well that just sums up what I was saying - lay people talking about things they know nothing about.

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03 Jan 2011, 7:07 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

The person who invented carbon dating did not have conclusive evidence of how old the earth is, and since RCD does not work on "new" subjects, it becomes even harder to scale.

Oh, come on now. That's outrageously wrong on so many counts I don't know where to begin and if that's all you have then, well, it's pretty thin...
It wasn't "a person" who "invented" it. Actual age of the Earth WRT the operation of RCD is irrelevant. RCD doesn't work with "new" objects for obvious reasons. Ad nauseum.

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matter can neither be created or destroyed

Nor can it be returned without a receipt.

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pensieve
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03 Jan 2011, 7:47 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

Look at your computer for example: it may have been built in 2010, but everything that goes into it has been on this planet since day one.

So basically, 5 billion years ago?

I went to church for 11 years. I'm not going to watch a video by some quack with a guitar.

You can have your faith but respect others faith. You must get it through your head that not everybody wants to believe in the Bible.
That said I still believe in God but I bloody love science and being free to believe in aliens/parallel universes/ time travel. I'm not going to be restricted by the church anymore.

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DenvrDave
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03 Jan 2011, 9:58 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

Dont get me started on radio carbon dating, there is no way to make a scale for it. The person who invented carbon dating did not have conclusive evidence of how old the earth is, and since RCD does not work on "new" subjects, it becomes even harder to scale.

Actually, there is a very precise way to make a scale for radio carbon dating. It is a very accurate way for estimating the age of carbonaceous materials, especially materials that are more than 100 years old. Radio carbon dating was developed in 1949 and has survived 60 years of scientific scrutiny and skepticism from all angles, not just people with a religious agenda. Furthermore, the guy who invented it won a Nobel prize in chemistry after accurately estimating the age of a piece of wood for which the age was known from historical documents. The half-life of the carbon-14 atom is know to a very high level of accuracy, 5,730 years plus or minus 30. That's pretty darn accurate. Furthermore, there are many isotopes of many other elements that also have very precisely measured half-lives and allow estimates of the age of materials several millions and even billions of years old.

silver22
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03 Jan 2011, 11:48 pm

kfisherx wrote:

Yes, you have a LOT of education from the school BUT you have very little understanding of how that education is applied in the real-world. So if you came into my shop and acted as if you had nothing to learn, then you would be sent back to academia where people like you belong.

The BEST people (PhDs or not) are those who keep a watchful eye on the current science and apply an open mind to the fact that what we actually KNOW about science is insignificant to what we do not know. A PhD doesn't mean ANYTHING if you think you have nothing more to learn.

Spot on.

Having a degree can mean very little. Applying learnings to the real world is the key. Never assume someone knows more than you just because they have studied the subject. Not only are people sometimes biased, judgemental or misguided, but also consider other motives such as commercial interests.

From what I have seen, psychology is a poorly understood branch of science with many conditions that are not clearly defined. It must be very difficult for a therapist to understand how and why a person acts when they think so differently to them. It is certainly a profession based strongly on good observation skills and applied learning.

As far as the theological debate. I can fully understand the intense fear of 'nothingness' upon dying that drives believers to argue so vehemently. As seen here, there is often a tendency for one to delve into more and more incredulous arguments to make their point of proving the existence of god. For this reason I avoid such debate vehemently.

wavefreak58
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04 Jan 2011, 12:08 am

Cornflake wrote:

wavefreak58 wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

Janissy wrote:

reasonably close to finding "Adam" and "Eve", if you are willing to stretch the defintion a fair bit.

Yes. Quite a bit in fact, but 200,000 years would be too far a stretch for Creationists I suspect. Isn't the Earth only 5,000-odd years old?

Only to young earth creationists. Some creationists accept a much older earth.

Hmm. I've been told that the literal word of God as given in the Bible is infallible. Seems there's more than one word?

You don't believe everything you're told, do you?

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wavefreak58
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04 Jan 2011, 12:22 am

pensieve wrote:

The Hubble Ultra-Deep Field galaxy is 13 billion light years away. If the Bible were right then this wouldn't exist, yet we have photographic evidence of it. To take this photo normally would show a blank spot but by using image stacking that's over I think 15 days long we can see hundreds if not thousands of early galaxies.

I personally believe the universe is 13+ billion years old, but your logic is faulty and someone will call you on it at some point.

A deity that is capable of creating this universe in 7 days is also capable of creating every photon and sub-atomic particle and assigning to them whatever initial positions and trajectories within space time as such a deity might choose. Said deity could create a galaxy 13 billion light years away along with every photon between the Hubble telescope and that galaxy.

This is the difficulty in discussing such an immensely powerful entity, Such an entity is not bound by rules, logic or the laws of physics as we understand them. All the science and all the data we can uncover can be simply brushed away by a single thought from such a being. This is the realm of true believers and nothing can undermine it.

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CockneyRebel
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04 Jan 2011, 12:23 am

Because a lot of them don't think. Many of them like to goof around, instead.

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Sallamandrina
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04 Jan 2011, 12:42 am

Alla wrote:

azurecrayon wrote:

i dont find someone having a phd to be demanding of respect. i give respect to people as a whole, but not simply because they had the time and money to pursue an advanced degree.

That's because you don't have a PhD and have the mistaken notion that you need time and money to pursue one. If you had a PhD, you would know that most PhD programs take in a few students with full funding.

I haven't paid a penny for mine, but we're both in Europe while she's in the States where some people seem to identify education with privilege (probably because it can get so expensive).

I kind of see both POVs here - I tend to appreciate and value other people's achievements and always admire someone who masters something - anything. But a lot of people seem to think that years of study and hard work mean nothing but a meagre piece of paper that can be obtained with money and no real effort. In such cases I agree with Ana's post about trying to dismiss/minimise something you don't have and know you can't achieve.

On the other hand, I also know what kfisherx means - I've met a large number of highly educated people who get very smug and patronising and decide that once they've got their diploma they have nothing to learn any more and everybody less educated is a stupid ape. Not to mention some of them are completely incompetent themselves.

Both are very unfortunate and ignorant positions.

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Last edited by Sallamandrina on 04 Jan 2011, 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

missykrissy
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04 Jan 2011, 12:46 am

why do you think it's only nt's that do this? so you are saying no AS person has ever second guessed a doctor, or a therapist? or any other professional? seems weird to me to group people in such a way

Sallamandrina
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04 Jan 2011, 12:54 am

missykrissy wrote:

Absolutely correct as browsing this forum would unfortunately prove.

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ruveyn
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04 Jan 2011, 5:37 am

Alla wrote:

Why is it that most people in society think they know everything and have little regard for professionals? I am not bitter, but I am about to get a PhD in ancient history and I'm sorry but I just happen to know more about ancient history than most people, who get the majority of their information from Wikipedia or other sites on the Net. Some people have the nerve to talk to me about my specific area of research and attempt to "teach" me things which are inherently wrong.

?

Have you done a statistically well structured poll to establish your conclusion? If so when, how and what methodology?

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astaut
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04 Jan 2011, 5:52 am

Most of my NT friends have too much regard for professionals. I think I have close to the right amount. I trust what some (most) of them say, but if I disagree I will seek another opinion. But what I'm talking about is more in the realm of doctors and lawyers. Something like ancient history...I can admit I don't know the first thing about it :lol:

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Alla
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04 Jan 2011, 7:03 am

Quote:

I haven't paid a penny for mine, but we're both in Europe while she's in the States where some people seem to identify education with privilege (probably because it can get so expensive).

See, it is peopl who have not gone to PhD programs who make assumptions like these. I did my undergrad and Masters in the US and I did not pay for that either. Both European and US universities usually fund the few PhD students they accept. The ones who don't get funded and really want to go anyway can apply for scholarships or loans or work part time. It is unfair to claim that people who get PhDs are there because they have money and time. The vast majority of my peers in my program come from poor or middle class families and we study in a very famous university.

Quote:

I kind of see both POVs here - I tend to appreciate and value other people's achievements and always admire someone who masters something - anything. But a lot of people seem to think that years of study and hard work mean nothing but a meagre piece of paper that can be obtained with money and no real effort. In such cases I agree with Ana's post about trying to dismiss/minimise something you don't have and know you can't achieve.

Look, earning a PhD does not mean that one knows everything. Life is an ongoing work in progress. However, I do know much more about my field than a layperson or someone who does not have the sort of degree I have. I do not rub my PhD on people's faces. I also realise that someone without a PhD might know more about a specific subfield than me, but I want to see concrete arguments about their stance on things, not arguments based on stuff they have picked up from the internet or from one or two magazine articles.

Cornflake
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04 Jan 2011, 7:16 am

wavefreak58 wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

wavefreak58 wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

Janissy wrote:

reasonably close to finding "Adam" and "Eve", if you are willing to stretch the defintion a fair bit.

Yes. Quite a bit in fact, but 200,000 years would be too far a stretch for Creationists I suspect. Isn't the Earth only 5,000-odd years old?

Only to young earth creationists. Some creationists accept a much older earth.

Hmm. I've been told that the literal word of God as given in the Bible is infallible. Seems there's more than one word?

You don't believe everything you're told, do you?

Abosolutely not. You mean there's some other way?

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Ariela
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04 Jan 2011, 8:40 am

Neurotypes don't have one collective opinion and don't think uniformly.

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