Why do most NTs have little regard for professionals?

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thechadmaster
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04 Jan 2011, 12:26 pm

Cornflake wrote:
QED


what does QED mean?


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Cornflake
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04 Jan 2011, 12:33 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
QED


what does QED mean?
Quod Erat Demonstrandum or, loosely: "it has been proved".


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ADHDorASDorBoth
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04 Jan 2011, 5:19 pm

My idea is not to believe in any crappy human created religion, end of.

Universe is big, complex, humans are complicated. MUch is possible.

Who am I too deny or agree lol.

If and when God/Gods' exist/arrive, I hope thy wipe out all of the corruption of the major religious organisations.

Still, we are a tiny bit of dust are we not? Maybe they'll be chaotic gods' wooooooooo!

Populous has never been so much fun.



wavefreak58
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04 Jan 2011, 5:27 pm

ADHDorASDorBoth wrote:
If and when God/Gods' exist/arrive, I hope thy wipe out all of the corruption of the major religious organisations.


Then how would we recognize evil?


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ADHDorASDorBoth
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04 Jan 2011, 5:31 pm

They might be evil/chaotic or anything that takes their whim.



Cornflake
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04 Jan 2011, 5:56 pm

I like this, from Epicurus:

Quote:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

(awaits counter-argument, with some trepidation :wink: )


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ADHDorASDorBoth
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04 Jan 2011, 6:09 pm

Pffffftttt.

My IQ is too low to unravel that one.........



wavefreak58
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04 Jan 2011, 10:36 pm

Cornflake wrote:
I like this, from Epicurus:
Quote:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

(awaits counter-argument, with some trepidation :wink: )


The counter argument is quite simple. Absolutes are intrinsically paradoxical., Applying them to anything leads to logical grid lock. The fault is not the in nature of God, but the in nature of our language and reasoning. It is the hubris of humanity that we presume our language and reason are sufficient to describe the totality of existence.


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Cornflake
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05 Jan 2011, 9:21 am

wavefreak58 wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
I like this, from Epicurus:
Quote:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

(awaits counter-argument, with some trepidation :wink: )


The counter argument is quite simple. Absolutes are intrinsically paradoxical., Applying them to anything leads to logical grid lock. The fault is not the in nature of God, but the in nature of our language and reasoning. It is the hubris of humanity that we presume our language and reason are sufficient to describe the totality of existence.

Wow. I'd thought that if anyone here would counter it with lucid reasoning, then it would likely be you. I was right. :lol:
Thanks. Really; thanks. It's very nice to be able to have your thoughts on these things because they help mine.


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wavefreak58
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05 Jan 2011, 10:23 am

Cornflake wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
I like this, from Epicurus:
Quote:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

(awaits counter-argument, with some trepidation :wink: )


The counter argument is quite simple. Absolutes are intrinsically paradoxical., Applying them to anything leads to logical grid lock. The fault is not the in nature of God, but the in nature of our language and reasoning. It is the hubris of humanity that we presume our language and reason are sufficient to describe the totality of existence.

Wow. I'd thought that if anyone here would counter it with lucid reasoning, then it would likely be you. I was right. :lol:
Thanks. Really; thanks. It's very nice to be able to have your thoughts on these things because they help mine.


Uh. Thanks.

I hope you don't take this wrong, but I know I rattle on too much and I can get quite irritating. So it means a lot to me when someone actually gets something from what I write. So, really, thanks!


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Cornflake
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05 Jan 2011, 11:01 am

wavefreak58 wrote:
I know I rattle on too much and I can get quite irritating. So it means a lot to me when someone actually gets something from what I write. So, really, thanks!

Not to me you don't, and I don't find you irritating at all.
This has all made me feel very good today so it looks like we've both won! :lol:


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Lene
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06 Jan 2011, 7:45 pm

People have respect for people. Not for their qualifications.

I work amongst professionals all with the same degree and the difference of respect that both I and the customers hold for them is entirely dependent on how they interact with others, not what letters they have after their name or even how much knowledge they have.

An arrogant as*hole may be the top of his field, say in medicine, and may even be respected amongst others with the same degree, but if he is dismissive of the patient, or scoffs at their beliefs (say in reflexology or whatever), then they are far more likely to think him an idiot and seek a second opinion/sue if something goes wrong.

The way I see it is, if you are an expert in something, then you are an ambassador for that subject. You should act delighted that others show an interest in it too, whatever their level, and patiently let them expouse their own knowledge. Disagree politely where necessary, and if they become obnoxious, change topic. If you're intelligent enough to get a phD, this shouldn't be too difficult.



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06 Jan 2011, 8:10 pm

Your chosen field is more heavily reliant on subjective opinions than most.

Historical knowledge is never first-hand information, most records are written with some degree of bias, there are numerous versions of events which people can't agree on, and when you go far enough back in time you get to the point where historians are just making things up and using their credibility as "professionals" to pass off their entirely speculative theories as being factual information about a period of time from which no factual information can ever exist.

That's not verifiable "knowledge", certainly not in the same manner as a surgeon's knowledge of how to safely remove a tumour.

I actually find the opposite of your viewpoint to be true. Most NTs put unquestioning faith in so-called professionals, without even giving a second thought to the verifiability of that professional's opinion or the objective accuracy of the materials which influenced him to hold that opinion. Wikipedia may be largely comprised of hearsay, opinions, and third-hand knowledge, but so are the schools of thought which spawn the authors of supposedly credible resources of information.

You can't seperate subjectivity from human knowledge, there will always be room to debate almost anything, and a person's perceived credibility has no bearing on whether or not their claims are accurate. Whether Schrodinger's cat is dead or alive inside his box, cannot be factually determined by asking a nearby scientist his opinion on the matter, it can only be determined by looking in the box.



Marcia
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06 Jan 2011, 8:57 pm

Lene wrote:
People have respect for people. Not for their qualifications.

I work amongst professionals all with the same degree and the difference of respect that both I and the customers hold for them is entirely dependent on how they interact with others, not what letters they have after their name or even how much knowledge they have.

An arrogant as*hole may be the top of his field, say in medicine, and may even be respected amongst others with the same degree, but if he is dismissive of the patient, or scoffs at their beliefs (say in reflexology or whatever), then they are far more likely to think him an idiot and seek a second opinion/sue if something goes wrong.

The way I see it is, if you are an expert in something, then you are an ambassador for that subject. You should act delighted that others show an interest in it too, whatever their level, and patiently let them expouse their own knowledge. Disagree politely where necessary, and if they become obnoxious, change topic. If you're intelligent enough to get a phD, this shouldn't be too difficult.


Thank you for expressing so eloquently what I have been thinking since I first read this thread. I have emboldened the last paragraph as I believe the OP should read it carefully and think deeply about the message conveyed.



tall-p
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06 Jan 2011, 10:35 pm

Lene wrote:
The way I see it is, if you are an expert in something, then you are an ambassador for that subject. You should act delighted that others show an interest in it too, whatever their level, and patiently let them expouse their own knowledge. Disagree politely where necessary, and if they become obnoxious, change topic.

Well said... and pretty much my philosophy on parenting.


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persian85033
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07 Jan 2011, 12:49 am

I would say it is jealousy and laziness. People envy them. I for one admire professionals a lot.


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