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Steampunk
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10 Jan 2011, 1:21 am

Can you give us a tl;dl version?



PanoramaIsland
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10 Jan 2011, 2:22 am

Steampunk wrote:
Can you give us a tl;dl version?

It's pretty short to begin with.
He discusses measuring the ethics of our behavior towards other beings on the basis of their ability to suffer, argues against seeing the needs of non-human beings as unimportant simply because they're not human, and argues against factory farming and most animal testing, while making room for some animal testing being theoretically ethical.


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Bethie
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10 Jan 2011, 7:17 am

Steampunk wrote:
If animals kill other animals for food, is that evil? Assuming morality is predefined, how would something natural be immoral? Whether we like it or not, animals are a renewable resource.

Of course, hunting for the sake of sport is completely different. I see how people feel this should be out-lawed, and by all means hope they continue to think this way simply to preserve free speech.


Appealing to the ethics of creatures who HAVE NO ETHICS is quite silly.
Animals also rape and cannibalize one another-are these likewise de facto moral by virtue of being natural?

How on earth is morality pre-defined?
Were that the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion int he first place.

Killing animals is not necessary.
Therefore it is ALL "for sport".


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10 Jan 2011, 12:11 pm

Steampunk wrote:
If animals kill other animals for food, is that evil? Assuming morality is predefined, how would something natural be immoral? Whether we like it or not, animals are a renewable resource.

Of course, hunting for the sake of sport is completely different. I see how people feel this should be out-lawed, and by all means hope they continue to think this way simply to preserve free speech.


I define "evil" as inflicting something you wouldn't want done to yourself.
I believe the universe is ultimately neutral.
History proves that the human animal is capable of committing some hardcore atrocities en masse.



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10 Jan 2011, 7:12 pm

I would have thought that there would be more aspies interested in the fair treatment of animals, considering that we know what it is like to be victimised, bullied, physically harmed, lorded over by people who consider themselves superior to us, considered less than human, shut out of society for not displaying the traits that get you into the "normal zone".

Well some beings on this earth are not merely just born disabled humans, but they are not even born human and do not get to enjoy any of the rights that humans have. They also have noone standingup for them when they are harmed. In fact there are laws sanctioning the harm of them.

I guess that it is an issue that people have not thought enough about. I know I hadnt thought enough about it, until it was brought to my attention in a way that I could no longer ignore.


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PanoramaIsland
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10 Jan 2011, 11:14 pm

zen_mistress wrote:
I would have thought that there would be more aspies interested in the fair treatment of animals, considering that we know what it is like to be victimised, bullied, physically harmed, lorded over by people who consider themselves superior to us, considered less than human, shut out of society for not displaying the traits that get you into the "normal zone".

Well some beings on this earth are not merely just born disabled humans, but they are not even born human and do not get to enjoy any of the rights that humans have. They also have noone standingup for them when they are harmed. In fact there are laws sanctioning the harm of them.

I guess that it is an issue that people have not thought enough about. I know I hadnt thought enough about it, until it was brought to my attention in a way that I could no longer ignore.


Quoted for truth.


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zen_mistress
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11 Jan 2011, 1:10 am

^ Thanks :) .


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11 Jan 2011, 2:59 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals

peta
people who eat and torture animals



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11 Jan 2011, 3:45 pm

Its inhumane how humans treat other species on Earth regardless of anything. We're all Earthlings. I like PETA because they're the only vocal supporters of animal rights that's universally known. I've seen videos of the practices large corporations like KFC impliments, the animals are abused and put into small coops. It's a genocide just for our eating habits. I never wore and probably never will wear clothing made of "animals".



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12 Jan 2011, 11:02 am

PETA goes over board when it comes to animals. I still remember when Steve Irwin died, and PETA bashed him. I don't know how they can compare him to a person who abuses animals. The man lost his life and left behind two young children. I think it was the way Steve handled crocs. But to me he didn't abuse the crocs. Sure he was crazy and holding poisonous snakes isn't such a good thing. He was a brave man though. When I heard he died, I was very sad.


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12 Jan 2011, 12:31 pm

I'm a hypocrit when it comes to the topic of eating animals, to be honest. I dislike the mistreatment of animals, I get stirred up when someone holds a dog the wrong way, but I can eat a steak with a smile on my face. I suppose it's because meat is faceless, it can't look you in the eyes or reciprocate in any way and that can make it easier to, perhaps on a subconscious level, separate the animal from the meat infront of you.

I don't intend to change my diet but I will and do support organizations that try to prevent animal abuse. Not to have a convenient excuse to continue eating meat but simply because that's where I stand; I'm an animal-loving omnivore.



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12 Jan 2011, 3:18 pm

^^You have pretty much summed me up there.


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13 Jan 2011, 12:27 am

i think SQUARE PEG has exhibited the ignorance espoused by most humans writing here. peta kills animals just to do it. what drivel.

in the usa last year, roughly 5 million dogs and cats were killed simply because there weren't enough homes for them. if you think 'no-kill' shelters do not kill animals, you're wrong.

peta operates an open admission shelter. the animals they take in are usually the ones that no one wants and are
too hurt or sick to save. rather than let them die slowly and painfully, they put them down. it would be cruel not to do so. guess square peg thinks it's ok to let dogs and cats die slow and very painful deaths.

peta has one goal, to stop animal torture/abuse. i understand that most of you love your 'pets' . i understand that you don't care what happens to any other non-human animal. that sort of cruel indifference to the pain and suffering of feeling creatures just baffles me.

it's really disappointing to see luvsterriors has joined with the humans who think torturing 'some' animals is ok.
please, attack me. it would hurt me deeply to know that writers like monkey and tim-tex and kinkslover did not despise me. anyone who thinks 'some' animal torture is ok is certainly my enemy.

i support peta, in defense of animals, last chance for animals, farm sanctuary and others. i support local open and limited admission shelters. i participate in puppy mill busts, hoarder raids, and simple protests. i'm giving everything i own to animal related causes when i decide to die. because of my interactions with most humans and their cruelty towards other living creatures, i would destroy what i have before i would let humans have it.

who would've thunk there were so many michael vicks on wrong planet?



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13 Jan 2011, 12:27 am

Oh, this thread.



PanoramaIsland
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13 Jan 2011, 6:07 am

Lecks wrote:
I'm a hypocrit when it comes to the topic of eating animals, to be honest. I dislike the mistreatment of animals, I get stirred up when someone holds a dog the wrong way, but I can eat a steak with a smile on my face. I suppose it's because meat is faceless, it can't look you in the eyes or reciprocate in any way and that can make it easier to, perhaps on a subconscious level, separate the animal from the meat infront of you.

I don't intend to change my diet but I will and do support organizations that try to prevent animal abuse. Not to have a convenient excuse to continue eating meat but simply because that's where I stand; I'm an animal-loving omnivore.


If you feel that you can't give up meat, you can solve much of this dilemma by purchasing grass-fed, free-range, local, organic and humane meat. You'll be able to afford less meat - which is good anyway, since it's better for the environment - but the meat you do eat will be a real treat, will be of higher quality, and you can eat with a much cleaner conscience. This is what my brother and his fiance do in lieu of being vegetarian.


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13 Jan 2011, 8:10 am

danandlouie wrote:
i think SQUARE PEG has exhibited the ignorance espoused by most humans writing here. peta kills animals just to do it. what drivel.

in the usa last year, roughly 5 million dogs and cats were killed simply because there weren't enough homes for them. if you think 'no-kill' shelters do not kill animals, you're wrong.

peta operates an open admission shelter. the animals they take in are usually the ones that no one wants and are
too hurt or sick to save. rather than let them die slowly and painfully, they put them down. it would be cruel not to do so. guess square peg thinks it's ok to let dogs and cats die slow and very painful deaths.

peta has one goal, to stop animal torture/abuse. i understand that most of you love your 'pets' . i understand that you don't care what happens to any other non-human animal. that sort of cruel indifference to the pain and suffering of feeling creatures just baffles me.

it's really disappointing to see luvsterriors has joined with the humans who think torturing 'some' animals is ok.
please, attack me. it would hurt me deeply to know that writers like monkey and tim-tex and kinkslover did not despise me. anyone who thinks 'some' animal torture is ok is certainly my enemy.

i support peta, in defense of animals, last chance for animals, farm sanctuary and others. i support local open and limited admission shelters. i participate in puppy mill busts, hoarder raids, and simple protests. i'm giving everything i own to animal related causes when i decide to die. because of my interactions with most humans and their cruelty towards other living creatures, i would destroy what i have before i would let humans have it.

who would've thunk there were so many michael vicks on wrong planet?


Are you saying that I think some torture is OK? Well if that's the case then that's totally rubbish, I don't think any torture or abuse to animals is OK. I'm totally against animal cruelty and all for animal rights, but I just don't like PETA. Not liking PETA doesn't make me indifferent to animal welfare and the issues to do with it.


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