now i know why men dont care

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Chronos
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14 Jan 2011, 4:26 am

Nambo wrote:
The only thing I find "inferior" about Women, is thier tendancy to find attractive the sort of men that treat them inferior, just look at the number of threads about women not liking nice guys, my own mother dropped a very nice and succesfull, (and very famous) man, because he was "too nice" and ended up marrying an eveil sadistic child abusing arsehole.

Myself, Ive been out with girls that I have finished with for the opposite reasons you state, I want somebody thats an interlectual equal, if I wanted somebody mentally inferior for company, Id get a dog.


I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term "nice guy". With respect to the conversations on this forum, as used by women, a "nice guy" is not a guy who is nice.

A "nice guy" is usually a passive aggressive man who thinks if he does what he considers to be "nice" things for a woman, then she is obligated to date him. These men will go beyond acts of chivalry in what they do for a woman. They will refuse to define boundaries and will frequently insist on going what is actually out of their way for women, frequently when it's unsolicited. They consider men who do define boundaries and who don't go out of there way to such an extent, to treat women poorly, however, at the same time, they think of these acts of kindness as a type of currency. They feel that they can buy a woman's affection by doing these things. They have a sense of entitlement. When this does not materialize, they become bitter and resentful. They do not really understand how attraction works or what relationships are about. They think things like "I open the door for her, I helped her move, I've never ever made a move on her, I buy her gifts, and a mow her lawn even though she didn't ask me to. She should be dating ME! (because I do all of these things for her)" They aren't really much different from the kid in school who thinks people will be his friend because he's nice to them and buys them things.

A "nice guy"is not the same as a guy who is nice. But many men feel threatened when the subject comes up because of ambiguity in the term. They are nice guys, who actually aren't "nice guys". They are guys who are nice, and they are nice in reasonable ways and don't meet the profile above.



Chronos
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14 Jan 2011, 4:31 am

Kilroy wrote:
most here have no clue how relationships are supposed to work and want someone because they feel they deserve them, doing nothing to get anyone, but whining here
they don't understand how the world functions and obsess over this over and over


That's quite true.



Aimless
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14 Jan 2011, 5:31 am

When I say "nice guy" I mean nice guy. There's no subtext either way.

Unless "nice guy" is said with a sarcastic tone of voice or "nice guy, but..."

I am female and I have never been aware of other females using the term to mean quite the opposite.
I guess I didn't get the memo. :roll:

I think the assumption that "nice guy" = creep is very damaging.



emlion
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14 Jan 2011, 5:36 am

Aimless wrote:
When I say "nice guy" I mean nice guy. There's no subtext either way.

Unless "nice guy" is said with a sarcastic tone of voice or "nice guy, but..."

I am female and I have never been aware of other females using the term to mean quite the opposite.
I guess I didn't get the memo. :roll:

I think the assumption that "nice guy" = creep is very damaging.


I think self proclaimed 'nice guy' means 'boo hoo women don't want me, must be because i'm not an as*hole.' :roll:
although, i have no idea it's been used in this thread, only read the last post.



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14 Jan 2011, 5:57 am

emlion wrote:
Aimless wrote:
When I say "nice guy" I mean nice guy. There's no subtext either way.

Unless "nice guy" is said with a sarcastic tone of voice or "nice guy, but..."

I am female and I have never been aware of other females using the term to mean quite the opposite.
I guess I didn't get the memo. :roll:

I think the assumption that "nice guy" = creep is very damaging.


I think self proclaimed 'nice guy' means 'boo hoo women don't want me, must be because i'm not an as*hole.' :roll:
although, i have no idea it's been used in this thread, only read the last post.


I hate to think I've been insulting people when all I meant was "friendly".



emlion
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14 Jan 2011, 6:02 am

Aimless wrote:
emlion wrote:
Aimless wrote:
When I say "nice guy" I mean nice guy. There's no subtext either way.

Unless "nice guy" is said with a sarcastic tone of voice or "nice guy, but..."

I am female and I have never been aware of other females using the term to mean quite the opposite.
I guess I didn't get the memo. :roll:

I think the assumption that "nice guy" = creep is very damaging.


I think self proclaimed 'nice guy' means 'boo hoo women don't want me, must be because i'm not an as*hole.' :roll:
although, i have no idea it's been used in this thread, only read the last post.


I hate to think I've been insulting people when all I meant was "friendly".


I dunno. When a woman says it about a man I never see it in the same way as when a man says it about himself.
I prefer to say 'good guy' over 'nice guy'.



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14 Jan 2011, 6:12 am

Chronos said this, which is what I commented on:

Quote:
I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term "nice guy". With respect to the conversations on this forum, as used by women, a "nice guy" is not a guy who is nice.


You might be right as to the term when used by men referring to themselves. I was just surprised that it meant anything other than just friendly to other women. It could be a trendy interpretation. I don't know, I don't keep up. :hmph: :)



emlion
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14 Jan 2011, 6:14 am

Aimless wrote:
Chronos said this, which is what I commented on:

Quote:
I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term "nice guy". With respect to the conversations on this forum, as used by women, a "nice guy" is not a guy who is nice.


You might be right as to the term when used by men referring to themselves. I was just surprised that it meant anything other than just friendly to other women. It could be a trendy interpretation. I don't know, I don't keep up. :hmph: :)


It's hard to judge over a forum I think. In real life you can get the intonation.
I just try not to use the word 'nice' when i actuall mean nice because it has other meanings (like that) and confuses me. >.<



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14 Jan 2011, 6:30 am

madbirdgirl wrote:
if i'm intelligent or funny or nice.
it's like watching an ass or a pair of tits dance around in a silly costume, singing songs and talking to themselves.
most men don't give a sh** about women, because they will always view them as inferior unless the woman is cognizant of this fact, and challenges the man.
too bad i can't do that, because i don't have a god damn clue when someone isn't being sincere or respectful unless they're blasting it in my face.


well you tar all men with the same brush because your mind is not refined enough to think in a more resolved way.
your brush is miles wide, but the mental brush that paints the best picture of reality is a very small brush that can etch the details of delicate circumstance.

you have swiped your flummoxed brush over my face with abandon and you are inaccurate in your depiction of the reality of people. i am not interested in "tits and ass", and whether you believe it is dependent on your level of jadedness.

you make claims as if you have sampled the whole universe of males and your conclusion is erroneous.

i love my girlfriend without any reference to her "ass or tits". they are not of interest to me.
the things that she thinks and the quaility of her world is real to me, and i could cuddle with her to eternity even if she was a blob of lard. i very much am warmed by the fact we have a similar way of seeing the world. i could not give a damn if she is sexually as pretty as younger women. i am not ruled by my dick, and i love her so very much that we will be together until we are old and feeble.

i like to go to sleep with someone who sees the world in a way i agree with, and i do not need titillation to be a part of it.

whatever. i do not know why i am responding to your silly post, but now i have written so much i will post my reply.



Jono
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14 Jan 2011, 12:37 pm

Chronos wrote:
Nambo wrote:
The only thing I find "inferior" about Women, is thier tendancy to find attractive the sort of men that treat them inferior, just look at the number of threads about women not liking nice guys, my own mother dropped a very nice and succesfull, (and very famous) man, because he was "too nice" and ended up marrying an eveil sadistic child abusing arsehole.

Myself, Ive been out with girls that I have finished with for the opposite reasons you state, I want somebody thats an interlectual equal, if I wanted somebody mentally inferior for company, Id get a dog.


I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term "nice guy". With respect to the conversations on this forum, as used by women, a "nice guy" is not a guy who is nice.

A "nice guy" is usually a passive aggressive man who thinks if he does what he considers to be "nice" things for a woman, then she is obligated to date him. These men will go beyond acts of chivalry in what they do for a woman. They will refuse to define boundaries and will frequently insist on going what is actually out of their way for women, frequently when it's unsolicited. They consider men who do define boundaries and who don't go out of there way to such an extent, to treat women poorly, however, at the same time, they think of these acts of kindness as a type of currency. They feel that they can buy a woman's affection by doing these things. They have a sense of entitlement. When this does not materialize, they become bitter and resentful. They do not really understand how attraction works or what relationships are about. They think things like "I open the door for her, I helped her move, I've never ever made a move on her, I buy her gifts, and a mow her lawn even though she didn't ask me to. She should be dating ME! (because I do all of these things for her)" They aren't really much different from the kid in school who thinks people will be his friend because he's nice to them and buys them things.

A "nice guy"is not the same as a guy who is nice. But many men feel threatened when the subject comes up because of ambiguity in the term. They are nice guys, who actually aren't "nice guys". They are guys who are nice, and they are nice in reasonable ways and don't meet the profile above.


Have you ever considered the possibility that such "nice guys" are just men who are shy or socially awkward around women? According to your description, the only real difference I can really see between "nice guys" and "guys who are nice" is that the so-called "nice guys" are maybe socially awkward, shy or get a little nervous women. Maybe that's why they are "nice" around women they would like to date, because they can't work up the courage to ask them out on a date, not because they're trying to be "sneaky" in being nice just so they can sleep with them. On the other hand, the "guys who are nice" are probably more confident.



Nambo
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14 Jan 2011, 1:37 pm

Jono wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Nambo wrote:
The only thing I find "inferior" about Women, is thier tendancy to find attractive the sort of men that treat them inferior, just look at the number of threads about women not liking nice guys, my own mother dropped a very nice and succesfull, (and very famous) man, because he was "too nice" and ended up marrying an eveil sadistic child abusing arsehole.

Myself, Ive been out with girls that I have finished with for the opposite reasons you state, I want somebody thats an interlectual equal, if I wanted somebody mentally inferior for company, Id get a dog.


I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term "nice guy". With respect to the conversations on this forum, as used by women, a "nice guy" is not a guy who is nice.

A "nice guy" is usually a passive aggressive man who thinks if he does what he considers to be "nice" things for a woman, then she is obligated to date him. These men will go beyond acts of chivalry in what they do for a woman. They will refuse to define boundaries and will frequently insist on going what is actually out of their way for women, frequently when it's unsolicited. They consider men who do define boundaries and who don't go out of there way to such an extent, to treat women poorly, however, at the same time, they think of these acts of kindness as a type of currency. They feel that they can buy a woman's affection by doing these things. They have a sense of entitlement. When this does not materialize, they become bitter and resentful. They do not really understand how attraction works or what relationships are about. They think things like "I open the door for her, I helped her move, I've never ever made a move on her, I buy her gifts, and a mow her lawn even though she didn't ask me to. She should be dating ME! (because I do all of these things for her)" They aren't really much different from the kid in school who thinks people will be his friend because he's nice to them and buys them things.

A "nice guy"is not the same as a guy who is nice. But many men feel threatened when the subject comes up because of ambiguity in the term. They are nice guys, who actually aren't "nice guys". They are guys who are nice, and they are nice in reasonable ways and don't meet the profile above.


Have you ever considered the possibility that such "nice guys" are just men who are shy or socially awkward around women? According to your description, the only real difference I can really see between "nice guys" and "guys who are nice" is that the so-called "nice guys" are maybe socially awkward, shy or get a little nervous women. Maybe that's why they are "nice" around women they would like to date, because they can't work up the courage to ask them out on a date, not because they're trying to be "sneaky" in being nice just so they can sleep with them. On the other hand, the "guys who are nice" are probably more confident.


Whilst true in some instances, this wasnt what I was refering to. Ive met such women, they admit themselves what they mean by " nice guys", and that they prefer men who actually treat them the way the original poster was complaining about, some even to the extent of being sexually arroused at the prospect of violence at the hands of thier man.
You can see this for instance in the "Gangsta" culture where even the women themselves refer to themselves as "b*****s".



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14 Jan 2011, 4:00 pm

Jono wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Nambo wrote:
The only thing I find "inferior" about Women, is thier tendancy to find attractive the sort of men that treat them inferior, just look at the number of threads about women not liking nice guys, my own mother dropped a very nice and succesfull, (and very famous) man, because he was "too nice" and ended up marrying an eveil sadistic child abusing arsehole.

Myself, Ive been out with girls that I have finished with for the opposite reasons you state, I want somebody thats an interlectual equal, if I wanted somebody mentally inferior for company, Id get a dog.


I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term "nice guy". With respect to the conversations on this forum, as used by women, a "nice guy" is not a guy who is nice.

A "nice guy" is usually a passive aggressive man who thinks if he does what he considers to be "nice" things for a woman, then she is obligated to date him. These men will go beyond acts of chivalry in what they do for a woman. They will refuse to define boundaries and will frequently insist on going what is actually out of their way for women, frequently when it's unsolicited. They consider men who do define boundaries and who don't go out of there way to such an extent, to treat women poorly, however, at the same time, they think of these acts of kindness as a type of currency. They feel that they can buy a woman's affection by doing these things. They have a sense of entitlement. When this does not materialize, they become bitter and resentful. They do not really understand how attraction works or what relationships are about. They think things like "I open the door for her, I helped her move, I've never ever made a move on her, I buy her gifts, and a mow her lawn even though she didn't ask me to. She should be dating ME! (because I do all of these things for her)" They aren't really much different from the kid in school who thinks people will be his friend because he's nice to them and buys them things.

A "nice guy"is not the same as a guy who is nice. But many men feel threatened when the subject comes up because of ambiguity in the term. They are nice guys, who actually aren't "nice guys". They are guys who are nice, and they are nice in reasonable ways and don't meet the profile above.


Have you ever considered the possibility that such "nice guys" are just men who are shy or socially awkward around women? According to your description, the only real difference I can really see between "nice guys" and "guys who are nice" is that the so-called "nice guys" are maybe socially awkward, shy or get a little nervous women. Maybe that's why they are "nice" around women they would like to date, because they can't work up the courage to ask them out on a date, not because they're trying to be "sneaky" in being nice just so they can sleep with them. On the other hand, the "guys who are nice" are probably more confident.


There are plenty of socially awkward, shy guys who do not hold the misconceptions of the "nice guy" in the description above, as they do not have a distorted definition of "nice", define boundaries and do not have a sense of self entitlement due to their acts of goodwill. That being said, there are also "nice guys" who are not shy or socially awkward. Some of these men are outgoing and quite social, but they become resentful and bitter when being "nice" doesn't get them the girl.

It's no different than a woman who thinks sleeping with a man, cooking for him, and doing his laundry whether he asked her to or not is going to make him fall madly in love with her, and then slanders his name when this doesn't happen.



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14 Jan 2011, 10:46 pm

Chronos has the right idea!



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14 Jan 2011, 10:55 pm

I'm going to echo what Chronos is saying as well.

To me a "nice guy" is someone that is so passive, agreeable, and accommodating that they get taken advantage of all the time, hence the saying "nice guys finish last" (also a very good Green Day song). They don't set boundaries. They don't stand up for themselves. They have no idea how to say no when someone asks them to do something. Often they have decent jobs because there's nothing corporate America loves more than employees that don't quit or strike or complain regardless of how much is demanded of them. They think that because they put up with a lot of crap and then say "please sir may I have another", it makes them more deserving than others. I should know, my father is one of these. I can't fathom why people live this way. Is it a misguided sense of duty or self righteousness? Is it a way to compensate for inferiority complexes? I don't know.

I'm not very nice in that when I feel I'm being treated badly, I tend not to allow the situation to continue. If a girl suddenly stopped talking to me after a couple dates, I'd conclude she was an a** and be thrilled she didn't hang around any longer. If they want to be "just friends" and I don't feel that's what I want, then I can just break contact and she can deal with that. I won't be losing any sleep over any of these things, so I guess I'm not a very nice guy.



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15 Jan 2011, 1:51 pm

Chronos wrote:
Jono wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Nambo wrote:
The only thing I find "inferior" about Women, is thier tendancy to find attractive the sort of men that treat them inferior, just look at the number of threads about women not liking nice guys, my own mother dropped a very nice and succesfull, (and very famous) man, because he was "too nice" and ended up marrying an eveil sadistic child abusing arsehole.

Myself, Ive been out with girls that I have finished with for the opposite reasons you state, I want somebody thats an interlectual equal, if I wanted somebody mentally inferior for company, Id get a dog.


I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term "nice guy". With respect to the conversations on this forum, as used by women, a "nice guy" is not a guy who is nice.

A "nice guy" is usually a passive aggressive man who thinks if he does what he considers to be "nice" things for a woman, then she is obligated to date him. These men will go beyond acts of chivalry in what they do for a woman. They will refuse to define boundaries and will frequently insist on going what is actually out of their way for women, frequently when it's unsolicited. They consider men who do define boundaries and who don't go out of there way to such an extent, to treat women poorly, however, at the same time, they think of these acts of kindness as a type of currency. They feel that they can buy a woman's affection by doing these things. They have a sense of entitlement. When this does not materialize, they become bitter and resentful. They do not really understand how attraction works or what relationships are about. They think things like "I open the door for her, I helped her move, I've never ever made a move on her, I buy her gifts, and a mow her lawn even though she didn't ask me to. She should be dating ME! (because I do all of these things for her)" They aren't really much different from the kid in school who thinks people will be his friend because he's nice to them and buys them things.

A "nice guy"is not the same as a guy who is nice. But many men feel threatened when the subject comes up because of ambiguity in the term. They are nice guys, who actually aren't "nice guys". They are guys who are nice, and they are nice in reasonable ways and don't meet the profile above.


Have you ever considered the possibility that such "nice guys" are just men who are shy or socially awkward around women? According to your description, the only real difference I can really see between "nice guys" and "guys who are nice" is that the so-called "nice guys" are maybe socially awkward, shy or get a little nervous women. Maybe that's why they are "nice" around women they would like to date, because they can't work up the courage to ask them out on a date, not because they're trying to be "sneaky" in being nice just so they can sleep with them. On the other hand, the "guys who are nice" are probably more confident.


There are plenty of socially awkward, shy guys who do not hold the misconceptions of the "nice guy" in the description above, as they do not have a distorted definition of "nice", define boundaries and do not have a sense of self entitlement due to their acts of goodwill. That being said, there are also "nice guys" who are not shy or socially awkward. Some of these men are outgoing and quite social, but they become resentful and bitter when being "nice" doesn't get them the girl.

It's no different than a woman who thinks sleeping with a man, cooking for him, and doing his laundry whether he asked her to or not is going to make him fall madly in love with her, and then slanders his name when this doesn't happen.


Ok, but the socially awkward type usually don't get dates either. Them saying they don't get dates is not due to a sense of entitlement. While, I see guys on this this forum who think they have some sort of entitlement, I can name a few that ate of the other type.