Are Christians responsible for the hatred of Jews today?

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TheKing
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26 Jan 2011, 1:07 pm

i hate Islamophobia it is very irrational and missplaced, Islam is one of the largest religions in the world(i believe either 2nd or 3rd largest but dont quote me on that one) if they all believed that Holy War is correct then they would have already taken over the world

http://www.islamophobia.org/news.php


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ruveyn
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26 Jan 2011, 3:47 pm

TheKing wrote:
i hate Islamophobia it is very irrational and missplaced, Islam is one of the largest religions in the world(i believe either 2nd or 3rd largest but dont quote me on that one) if they all believed that Holy War is correct then they would have already taken over the world

http://www.islamophobia.org/news.php


And every day they proclaim "God is Great!" You can tell from the explosions of the suicide martyrdom bombs.

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TheKing
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26 Jan 2011, 4:11 pm

From Greek philosopher Epicurius, courtesy of Jonathan Miller's "A History of Disbelief" on PBS:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

can God create a rock he cannot lift?
If he can he cant lift it which means he isn't omnipotent, if he can't then he still isn't omnipotent because he can't create a rock he can't lift.


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Omerik
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26 Jan 2011, 7:16 pm

I didn't read the whole 11 pages - but it is likely that the NT blamed the Jews because Christianity spread during Roman rule and the Roman rule was responsible for Jesus' death. So they rewrote it as if someone else is responsible, and the only other possibility was blaming the Jews. Also it's a traditional description of the Messiah, being rejected by the people. But the people probably DID accept Jesus...

It's ridiculous to think that it was anybody other than Pontius Pilate and his rule that killed Jesus... The whole description of Jews demanding the crucifixion of another Jew ("the Jewish king") and the Romans GIVING INTO IT is just ludacris. If anything, the Romans asked their puppet-Sanhedrin to condemn Jesus so they would have an excuse. But there's no doubt - the Roman rule killed Jesus, and the bible blamed the Jews so that the Romans wouldn't persecute the christians for believing in him.

If the Jews killed Jesus, he would have been stoned to death, according to Jewish law. Crucifixion was an execution method reserved for traitors and enemys of the empire. Why would the Jews (probably the only nation that fought for independece against the Romans) ask the Romans to kill an enemy of the Romans? And why would the Romans do what the Jews tell them to? It makes no sense at all.



TheKing
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26 Jan 2011, 7:54 pm

well i was just trying to prove a point that ALL religions have more blood, death and destruction then any dictatorships and christianity is the worlds largest religion so its the most familiar example


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Kraichgauer
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26 Jan 2011, 8:58 pm

Omerik wrote:
I didn't read the whole 11 pages - but it is likely that the NT blamed the Jews because Christianity spread during Roman rule and the Roman rule was responsible for Jesus' death. So they rewrote it as if someone else is responsible, and the only other possibility was blaming the Jews. Also it's a traditional description of the Messiah, being rejected by the people. But the people probably DID accept Jesus...

It's ridiculous to think that it was anybody other than Pontius Pilate and his rule that killed Jesus... The whole description of Jews demanding the crucifixion of another Jew ("the Jewish king") and the Romans GIVING INTO IT is just ludacris. If anything, the Romans asked their puppet-Sanhedrin to condemn Jesus so they would have an excuse. But there's no doubt - the Roman rule killed Jesus, and the bible blamed the Jews so that the Romans wouldn't persecute the christians for believing in him.

If the Jews killed Jesus, he would have been stoned to death, according to Jewish law. Crucifixion was an execution method reserved for traitors and enemys of the empire. Why would the Jews (probably the only nation that fought for independece against the Romans) ask the Romans to kill an enemy of the Romans? And why would the Romans do what the Jews tell them to? It makes no sense at all.


Not a theological, point, or even keeping with the subject. But you had mentioned that the Jews were probably the only people to fight the Romans for independence. In fact, plenty of tribes and nations who the Romans had invaded fought gallantly to regain their liberty in popular uprisings. In fact, it was the tribes of ancient Germania (Germany) who in fact successfully ousted the Romans in the battle of the Teutoberg forest, which left three Roman legions utterly annihilated in 9 AD - the first time in fact that a native population pushed back the Roman border.
As a side note - the Roman governor of Germania, Publius Quintilius Varus, whose bigotry and overbearing brutality had induced the Germans to revolt, had not many years before been governor of Syria, during which time he had very bloodily put down a Jewish uprising.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



91
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26 Jan 2011, 10:54 pm

@theking

Why are you bringing Epicurus and the logical problem of evil up during a discussion on Anti-Semitism? Do you really want to get into a debate over body count?

On the matter of your comments relating to the Pope. He was conscripted into the Hitler Youth then into the anti-aircraft corps, he then deserted. His cousin will killed by eugenics program.

In General

Just about everyone took on the Romans before and after conquest. Compared to the efforts made in Northern Spain, Gaul and Germany the Jews (while brave), were not nearly as determined.


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TheKing
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27 Jan 2011, 12:01 am

well there was a comment about how muslims are evil and he was christian so my point is just that he has no room to talk about whose religion is evil seein how his has caused more death and destruction than any religion and government combined


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91
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27 Jan 2011, 1:13 am

TheKing wrote:
well there was a comment about how muslims are evil and he was christian so my point is just that he has no room to talk about whose religion is evil seein how his has caused more death and destruction than any religion and government combined


That statistic is highly subjective and essentially impossible to calculate. It proves nothing.


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27 Jan 2011, 1:24 am

91 wrote:
TheKing wrote:
well there was a comment about how muslims are evil and he was christian so my point is just that he has no room to talk about whose religion is evil seein how his has caused more death and destruction than any religion and government combined


That statistic is highly subjective and essentially impossible to calculate. It proves nothing.
Yeah the religious are the majority, so of course they're more responsible for killings. Plus atheism isn't as institutionalized, so it would also be harder to organize such things. It's hard to say whether the religious system is more inherently prone to inciting violence than atheism.



JohnyJohn
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22 Jul 2011, 3:53 am

Catholics are heretics.Second just because someone is Jew that does mean mean that he can't be saved or be Baptized.Also let's take for example Sodom and Gomorrah(i think i did not mistake the cities)where God would not punish them if there were only 10 Just people.Also some things is not racism,like Pharisees.There were good Pharisees too.But the thing with Pharisees is that they were a close culture,that's why the majority were like that,because of being close and sharing opinions.Like when Turks are being considered barbaric.There are good too,even Saints,but because the majority is close and a culture are like that.



ruveyn
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22 Jul 2011, 8:44 am

ikorack wrote:
Since when is easter an opportunity to incite hate for Jewish people?


For nearly 2000 years. Next question?



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22 Jul 2011, 8:51 am

Salonfilosoof wrote:

I'm not antisemitic nor paranoid. I just criticise Jewish culture for the same reasons most people criticise the Nazis : a strong sense of hostility towards outsiders and a tendency to harm outsiders because of it. There's nothing antisemitic or paranoid about that. Jewish xenophobia towards gentiles is well-documented throughout history just like the gentile response of antisemitism.



When was the last time Jews had a pogrom against Christians?

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22 Jul 2011, 1:34 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Salonfilosoof wrote:

I'm not antisemitic nor paranoid. I just criticise Jewish culture for the same reasons most people criticise the Nazis : a strong sense of hostility towards outsiders and a tendency to harm outsiders because of it. There's nothing antisemitic or paranoid about that. Jewish xenophobia towards gentiles is well-documented throughout history just like the gentile response of antisemitism.



When was the last time Jews had a pogrom against Christians?

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Two thousand years ago, actually. Suetonius wrote of how the Jewish quarter in the city of Rome, the Jews there had discovered that worshipers of Chrestos were living among them, and so went batshit crazy trying to kill them. Claudius, who had just become emperor, evicted the whole lot of them - Jews and Christians - from the city.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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22 Jul 2011, 3:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Two thousand years ago, actually. Suetonius wrote of how the Jewish quarter in the city of Rome, the Jews there had discovered that worshipers of Chrestos were living among them, and so went batshit crazy trying to kill them. Claudius, who had just become emperor, evicted the whole lot of them - Jews and Christians - from the city.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


2000 years! Christian action against Jews is a lot more recent and a lot more frequent.

Jews have been victims of Christian bigotry and hatred for a long time. To this day the mythic Blood Libel is brought against Jews. This was invented by Christians.

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22 Jul 2011, 10:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Two thousand years ago, actually. Suetonius wrote of how the Jewish quarter in the city of Rome, the Jews there had discovered that worshipers of Chrestos were living among them, and so went batshit crazy trying to kill them. Claudius, who had just become emperor, evicted the whole lot of them - Jews and Christians - from the city.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


2000 years! Christian action against Jews is a lot more recent and a lot more frequent.

Jews have been victims of Christian bigotry and hatred for a long time. To this day the mythic Blood Libel is brought against Jews. This was invented by Christians.

ruveyn


Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that every Christian alive today is responsible, or even guilty, of such things.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer