British mothers thrown out of nursery for being.. British :/

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Clearly your grasp of literature is as solid as your grasp of the benefits system. Macbeth? The King..in the very male sense of the word.

You going to pick and choose what counts as a "Child Benefit" bonus, money anyone can claim, and mix and match depending on how the mood takes you? I'll say again.. CHILD BENEFIT DOES NOT HAVE "BONUSES". It triggers a potential eligibility for child tax credit (a wildly variable amount which many working people can also claim. Child trust fund is fifty pounds, which the PARENT cannot access. They can't buy fags with it, trade it, flog it on the market..cannot touch it. Only the CHILD can claim that money when they hit 18, assuming that they haven't been removed by that point completely, and assuming that the investment has actually prospered, which it may well not have done. So they could end up with nothing.

Still demonstrating a marked lack of understanding of the system, and also a massive overestimation of how much these various things amount to, or even which ones have been ended completely or downgraded. No doubt you're going to cling to the belief that benefits let you live like a king. You just don't know what you are talking about.

"All that info" about child allowance was so you could see how what the Mail claims someone can get, and what they can actually get are two very different things. They are not entitled to Guardian Allowance, they cannot get Guardian Allowance, they probably don't even know such a thing exists, and I saw NO suggestion on their part that they ever intended to claim that allowance. But the Fail seems to think that it should mention things they cannot have, in order to make them sound even worse. No doubt they can also NOT claim widows pension or a war pension, and several other benefits. Surely all of these should have been mentioned as well, just so cretins can assume even more incorrect rubbish?

And as for that bit of "reporting" that hit the nationals today: Those figures are incorrect. They are a fiction crafted by ATOS and the DWP.

This is not guesswork on my part, or an assumption. Go and google it for a while and you will plainly see exactly what is occurring there. The articles have been copied almost verbatim from other national papers with NO independent research by any of the papers who have used those figures. The article is defamatory, libellous and as accurate as the ADMITTED government lies about the 5bn benefit "fraud" cost, which is actually only 1bn for fraud, and 4bn for clerical errors (including DWP error). NONE of those articles mention the VAST number of appeals that have already overturned ATOS decisions, nor the equally vast number of appeals on-going.

So do try not to believe all that s**t, because anybody who can read further than what the Express tells them knows that their "facts" are nothing of the sort. Do some proper research. Look up what Lord Freud said in his independent assessment about the Work Capability Test and the fact it is unfit for purpose. Then look at the fact that the government have decided that whilst they are taking on board those comments, they are just going to go ahead and use the tests anyway.

Compare and contrast the attitude of the Express and Mail in their many articles about "disabled war heroes" being refused their rightful support by the SAME body who have determined that the rest of the disabled are fraudsters. Then think about how, if the blind copper that Moaty shot in the face was assessed by ATOS and awarded LESS benefit than he thinks he should get, why is his demand for a reassessment more valid than anyone elses? If ATOS are so infallible that they get it right on so many people being skivers, why is it that men damaged by IEDs are NOT defrauding the state when they get turned down for motability. They should get proper benefits.. they fought for this country, should they not? BUT ATOS SAID THEY SHOULDN'T. Just like they said it about all the others. The mail et al are creating a double standard..or the FACT is that ATOS are defrauding the disabled, just like their original parent company Unum Provident did in America.

After you've done that, go and have a look in those nationals and find me the articles about the nationwide protests that took place at the various branches of ATOS Origin country-wide and explain to me why you haven't FOUND A MENTION?

By all means then delve further into why "being able to pick up a pen once" translates into "can find work without support" for a man with Parkinsons. Then you could explain why employers are going to be willing to hire thousands of disabled people, many without usable job-skills or with comprehensive special needs, into jobs that they don't actually have, when the market is FLOODED with comprehensively skilled, fully able and experienced workers in all fields cut loose from local authorities. After that maybe you could look up how Legal Aid is to be dropped for benefits appeals, meaning that all of those people who successfully appeal against INCORRECT DWP decisions will no longer be able to fight those decisions. Perhaps, if you're feeling particularly inquisitive you could even consider where the apology might be (or the compensation) for all of these people that apparently quite wrongly have been placed on the wrong benefit? Could you even go so far as to explain why the government feels it can trust GPs to determine how to spend multi-billion pound funding in the NHS in areas they have NO EXPERIENCE WITH because they are only GPs, but refuses to trust them to issue an accurate sicknote for patients they often spend YEARS becoming familiar with? Or you could look up the clause that allows a MIDWIFE paid by ATOS to over-rule the medical opinion of ANY OTHER MEDICAL SPECIALIST?

Finally you could pray that you don't end up catching anything nasty, or being in a violent and unpleasant and crippling accident. Bow down before Jesus and Mohammed and all their little pixies and PRAY that you don't run into an angry man with a grudge one dark night somewhere, and wake up in hospital paraplegic. Hope to God that you don't get cancer, or Parkinsons, or lose any limbs, or (please christ) get a girl pregnant. And especially don't have a disabled kiddy. Because no matter how hard you worked, no matter how much you contributed to the system, you will get nothing back.

And if you can't be bothered to do any of that then you can just go bollocks because I weary of your incessant ill-informed prattle. Inform yourself or suffer the consequences.

ps: Young? Who the f**k are you calling young?

Here we go again topic

Such absurd reductionist arguments by many reactionary posters here makes one ashamed.

Humans are biased, but some deny their biases and reduce them to facts. This is what is happening in this thread.

If people choose to spend their government benefits foolishly, there will be repercussions. It may not happen as soon as many would want, but it will happen. It is up to concerned citizens to report dishonesty.

It is easy to misinterpret certain situations. I also used to wonder about people who abused the system, but eventually they do get caught: psychopathic financiers and business people, lottery fraudsters and welfare fraudsters who have full time jobs and who abuse the system, thereby hurting others and robbing people of necessary benefits, and making it tougher for those who need it. The few have spoiled it for the many. And these people are from every gender, race, ethnic group, religion, etc. There is mistrust of everyone now, not just the indigenous populations. And there is personal privacy so that we do not hear every detail until the court case is finished, leaving people to wildly speculate, often wrongly, that the person from a minority group will walk away and not pay a penalty. Justice is not so simple, and it may not satisfy all, but in a democracy, it does triumph.

Murphycop, if you have beefs about the system, then in a democracy you can address your concerns to those in authority, such as your MP, council members and the like. (This does not happen in many countries, prompting many to leave and live in democracies). You have the power of a vote. Instead of just ranting, do something constructive to improve your situation, unless of course this rant is just an end in itself, making excuses and crying into your beer, cigarette or can of pop.

Obviously you are bitter cause you didn't claim these bonuses for yourself. Is it too late? The Daily Mirror, a very left wing newspaper were crying, and calling George Osbourn the child cash snatcher. Cause the SureStart Maternity Grant, which is a one off payment of £500, to help families on low income. Its now being limited to the first child only. This is good, cause it stops people who aren't financially stable, from breeding more. The torries have also gotten rid of the £190 one off payment, a Health in pregnancy grant, which expectant mum's get to help them prepare for the extra costs of the new kid. The £545 that familes can get for kids, if their income was below £50,000, is being changed, so if their income passes £41,330, they will lose their £545 a year. Families lose an average of £436 a year on Child care allowance, if they're entitled to working tax credit. Torries have also scrapped payments of up to £30 week for Educational maintenance allowance.

Now i'm not sure about your maths skills, hopefully they are stronger than your eyesight. But playing your cards right, you could earn quite a bit of dough from having kids, if you play the system, like so many do.

You seem to be diverting off again, with all this stuff about the NHS, the joke system that Labour created. What has an angry man down an alley got to do with any of this either? Nothing. I did get attacked by a gang, I stuck up for myself and got in trouble, where as they got away with it. Due to the left wing sytsem, that protects the criminals. Again, you drone on with another essay of irrelevant bull, as you can't get to the point.

Where's my friend the Crack Fox?

You have a point Sartresue. But I do think the system should be changed, so its not so easy for a scumbag to abuse the system. I don't agree with you about justice though, especially not in this country, there's too much p**** footing around, no common sense is used at all. Just look at the inquiry into the Iraq war.

I do vote. Again, with the left wing society we live in, its hard to do something or say something, without being accused of being racist or facist. I don't drink or smoke anymore! Really there's nothing I can do about the destruction of this country, going to my local MP isn't gonna do much. Like you say, I can about what affects me though. I have a criminal record now, because our law basically says "if you're going to attack someone, make sure its in a group, then it can't really be proved that you did the attacking, even though everyone did get involved, and if that person died, you'd end up being charged with manslaughter or murder, so just make sure you do as much damage without killing them".

You haven't the first idea what I do, so it's rather presumptuous of you to suggest that



Unlike your brother, I have enough common sense not to make assumptions about the things I see around me, and to get the facts, before leaping to conclusions.

No, there is nothing wrong with Eastern Europeans flying to Ireland and taking money back home with them. There is nothing wrong with Britons flying to Ireland and taking money home with them, either. You live in an open labour market. You and I (I am a British citizen) have the privilege of going to any country in the EC and working, and you and I have the privilege of repatriating our earnings.

Foreign workers are not the root of Ireland's current crisis--those roots lies embedded in Irish financial institutions, and in Irish real estate.



Of course I do. I am human. But I am also self-aware enough to challenge my preconceptions.

There is assuredly an argument to be made that overall migration numbers are too high. If the economic integration of migrants is being ret*d by limited job opportunities in the centres where migrants are choosing to live, then it is incumbent on government to examine its policy--but cutting numbers might not be the best answer.

After all, migration is the means by which most OECD countries are maintaining population growth. Without population growth, there is a diminishing base on which to maintain public programs, which will lead to significant spending pressures when the demographic bump moves out of the workforce.

So maybe the answer is to incentivize settlement in less populated centres. Maybe the answer is to incentivize job creation. Maybe the answer is to focus efforts on integrating the second generation. There are a lot of avenues of inquiry before we leap immediately to the conclusion that we should "turn off the taps."



First off, you will not see mostly foreign workers. 2006 ONS estimates demonstrate that 69.4% of the London population is white and 58% is white British. Given the overall statistics of unemployment rates, it is not unreasonable to project that better than 70% of people working in London are white, the vast majority of whom are white Britons.

Anecdotally you might well come across people who don't speak English. So far, all that proves that one time you came across someone who didn't speak English. Maybe the answer to that isn't to stop migration, but to ensure that new arrivals have access to English language classes.

Government is about making choices--but you can only make good choices when there are good options to choose from. These options should be focussed on the public policy objective to be achieved, and have an evidence based argument to demonstrate that linkage.

"Cut down the number of brown people in London," is not a sound public policy objective. "Make sure that new arrivals have the skills (including language skills) to find work," is a sound objective. Maybe if you get the goal right, then it will be a little easier to find the route to get there.

So now you're using vacations/holidays to compare with a foreign worker, working here and sending most of their money back home? Now I know you have no common sense.

You in the centre? The only thing worse than a radical left winger is one that doesn't even realise they are one.[/quote]

All about the assumptions, you are.

As I said, if you can't be bothered to actually do some research then bollocks to you.

[/quote]

Yes I do, you're some kind of doctor, I read it on the cannabis thread Suprisingly, I agree with you on what you said there.

Well my Brother has been working in London for over 30 years, he knows the city like the back of his hand. His personal experience in business and seeing with his eyes whats going on, is more credible that some stats that are tinkered with so they don't offend non white people.

So I could go to any country in the EU tommorrow, get a free house, car and a weekly payment? Wow, i'm game for that!

Again, those stats are probably manipulated to stop parties like the BNP having more fuel to their campaigns. And 2006? That was 5 years ago, with the hundreds of thousands of foreigners that have been let in, in the last 5 years, i'm sure those numbers have changed. I think you'll also find a lot of the unemployed people are likely to not be white. Hmm I don't know, maybe Enoch Powell was right, and saw the future.

Not all of us have so much time on our hands Macbeth.

Everyone on here who lives in the USA, just look at how the UK is with PC/"multiculturalism"/CCTV etc. Then keep in mind that we're only 10 years behind (if that)!

No. Some of us are busy working in the field of mental health with exactly the group of people that are going to get screwed, and will get to see first hand how destructive it will be, and how destructive it has already been. Hell, some of us do enough research to know how destructive it was last time it happened. Some of us..but clearly not you.

But what would I know? I'm a 32 year old male "young mother".

I could paste you link after link of information, direct you to reports, reviews, guidelines, insider memos, Christ knows what else, but you're obviously in the TL;DR group. If it isn't printed in BIG EASY TO READ LETTERS on the front of a tabloid you can't understand it. And if it IS PRINTED THERE LIKE THIS you believe every word of it.

People with real mental health problems, who can't work, they should not have to suffer. Again, this doesn't really have much to do with foreigners having more rights in our country, or welfare mothers playing the system. Too many people are "unable to work", cause they're too reliant on drugs and alcohol. I see first hand how the cuts affect the elderly, and already, before condems got in, just how badly the elderly are treated. They go into hospital with one thing, and die of another.

Not sure why I thought you was a girl.

Anyone could post links etc, to try and back up their argument, its a complete waste of time. And no, if i'm interested in the topic, i'll read all of it. I can see stuff with my own eyes, and speak to people who knew what it was like last time. But this time, our country really is finished.

A few years late but so what.
The two countries I have lived in - Australia and the Netherlands are also supporting foreniers more than their own people. In Australia Asians have benifits and in the Netherlands its people from Turkey, Morocco and nearby countries.
When I first came to the Netherlands I had to take free language lessons but they rejected me at first because I was too white!! ! weird