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Lace-Bane
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21 Jan 2011, 1:53 pm

Nereid wrote:
Smoking disgusts me and I cant understand knowing all the abominable side effects why so many people find it appealing.
I agree with this for the most part.

Even if smoking has some sort of feel good effect, I can't imagine smokers actually truly know what lung cancer is. My grandmother died of lung cancer. She was the kindest thing, but she died a horrible death because of lung cancer. She wasn't a smoker, but was a scientist and anatomy teacher who worked with formaldehyde all her life (Which causes cancer). Lung cancer is a slow process of your lungs getting snuffed out while you hack up blood and lung particles. It's truly probably one of the worse deaths imaginable. I really can't see someone saying "I'm okay with that" if they saw it first hand. A video of that would make a very good scare campaign to tell the truth.

Life is short, but there are much better less violent ways to die. I would say that I very much discourage it... However, I still believe it is up to the individual to decide. I just can't stand the thought of someone taking such a high risk to feel good... or whatever the feeling is :|.

I'll also note because of previous posts, that I don't find smoking to be morally incorrect. I don't treat smokers any less kind than I would non-smokers... as long as they are considerate enough to not make me inhale it second hand.


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happymusic
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21 Jan 2011, 5:57 pm

Kaybee wrote:

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You don't wanna encourage the people you care about not to die? This doesn't make any sense to me.


Everyone dies. It would pain me greatly for my loved ones to die. But I still respect that it is their right to decide what to do to their bodies. And if the things they do to their bodies hasten their deaths, but make their time on Earth more pleasant for them, I cannot begrudge them this. How selfish of me that would be.


Kaybee, you put my thoughts into words perfectly. Kiseki, I've also seen people in my family suffer cancer from the effects of smoking, but I'm uninterested in imposing my will on others, just like I don't want them telling me what to do. My dad was guilted by so many people about smoking and he reacted by just sneaking it. He has to come to the decision to quit, I can't make him get there. And in his case for example, I see him suffer so much - he has his whole life - and considering few people in his demographic make it over 62, if sitting in quiet and taking a drag on a cig makes him happy, then I say enjoy it, papa, I love you no matter what you do. And if it shortens his life, then, well, it was his decision and he was well informed. So be it. Everyone dies at some point.

My grandmother's had a cigarette in her mouth since the 1950s and has suffered no ill effects at all. She hasn't wrinkled, her voice is soft and sweet, she has no rattling cough, etc. It simply isn't a guaranteed express ticket to death, or even illness for that matter.

You made an assumption in your questions "...people you care about". I find this very curious and I have to turn it over in my mind. Honestly, I don't think I differentiate much between people who are close to me and people who aren't. They count the same. I don't want them to suffer, I want them to be happy, but this is an intellectual value I have, not an emotion. If they die they die. We all know it's coming. I don't get caught up in losing people, at least I haven't so far. I rarely ever miss them, and really, I don't know that I do - at least in the same way others do.

I hope this explains what I mean - I'm not a callous person, I'm just living my life and it often doesn't occur to me to be involved in the decisions of others.



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21 Jan 2011, 6:57 pm

Are cigars as unhealthy as cigarettes, or are they both equally unhealthy.


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21 Jan 2011, 6:58 pm

happymusic wrote:
Kaybee, you put my thoughts into words perfectly. Kiseki, I've also seen people in my family suffer cancer from the effects of smoking, but I'm uninterested in imposing my will on others, just like I don't want them telling me what to do. My dad was guilted by so many people about smoking and he reacted by just sneaking it. He has to come to the decision to quit, I can't make him get there. And in his case for example, I see him suffer so much - he has his whole life - and considering few people in his demographic make it over 62, if sitting in quiet and taking a drag on a cig makes him happy, then I say enjoy it, papa, I love you no matter what you do. And if it shortens his life, then, well, it was his decision and he was well informed. So be it. Everyone dies at some point.

My grandmother's had a cigarette in her mouth since the 1950s and has suffered no ill effects at all. She hasn't wrinkled, her voice is soft and sweet, she has no rattling cough, etc. It simply isn't a guaranteed express ticket to death, or even illness for that matter.

You made an assumption in your questions "...people you care about". I find this very curious and I have to turn it over in my mind. Honestly, I don't think I differentiate much between people who are close to me and people who aren't. They count the same. I don't want them to suffer, I want them to be happy, but this is an intellectual value I have, not an emotion. If they die they die. We all know it's coming. I don't get caught up in losing people, at least I haven't so far. I rarely ever miss them, and really, I don't know that I do - at least in the same way others do.

I hope this explains what I mean - I'm not a callous person, I'm just living my life and it often doesn't occur to me to be involved in the decisions of others.


I certainly see what you are saying. I wouldn't nag someone over their smoking habit, just let them know it might be better for them (and others around them) if they tried to quit. Chances are they want to. I know smokers say they enjoy smoking, but I think most of them would rather quit if possible.

And yeah, everyone dies. But I personally would rather die from something I didn't contribute to myself. Sure, there are some people around who don't show any ill effects from smoking. But I think that's rare.

Why I said "people you care about" is because I'm no guiding force in the lives of folks I don't know. I don't have any effect on their lives. Those I know and love, or even just like, I do. Why shouldn't they know how I feel? Like I said before, it's not like I would nag them over it. I generally don't miss people either, but if either of my brothers got some sort of cancer from smoking and died, I think that would be terrible. Because it could have been prevented.



happymusic
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21 Jan 2011, 7:41 pm

Kiseki wrote:
I certainly see what you are saying. I wouldn't nag someone over their smoking habit, just let them know it might be better for them (and others around them) if they tried to quit. Chances are they want to. I know smokers say they enjoy smoking, but I think most of them would rather quit if possible.


Good point.

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But I personally would rather die from something I didn't contribute to myself.

Me, too, but I don't know that everyone feels that way. Some people would rather live a shorter life having the things they want rather than denying themselves. Personally I prefer the healthy route for myself but have some relatives who have the former philosophy.
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Why I said "people you care about" is because I'm no guiding force in the lives of folks I don't know. I don't have any effect on their lives. Those I know and love, or even just like, I do. Why shouldn't they know how I feel? Like I said before, it's not like I would nag them over it. I generally don't miss people either, but if either of my brothers got some sort of cancer from smoking and died, I think that would be terrible. Because it could have been prevented.


Hmmm... this makes me think even more. You know, it might sound harsh and I'm sure someone will think less of me, but I don't care that much about others in this regard. I am caring but there's only so far I can go with it. If it's self induced and the person is aware of the risks, then they've chosen their path. They know what they're doing and I suppose I just consider my input being one of example.



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21 Jan 2011, 7:56 pm

happymusic wrote:
Kiseki wrote:
I certainly see what you are saying. I wouldn't nag someone over their smoking habit, just let them know it might be better for them (and others around them) if they tried to quit. Chances are they want to. I know smokers say they enjoy smoking, but I think most of them would rather quit if possible.


Good point.


Funny, I thought it was the opposite. Many smokers actually do enjoy smoking and do not want to quit. Many do want to, but many do not.

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But I personally would rather die from something I didn't contribute to myself.


Perhaps so, but it is a personal opinion/preference. I'm sure there are people who are neutral to whether or not they contribute and those who actively want to contribute to it.

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Hmmm... this makes me think even more. You know, it might sound harsh and I'm sure someone will think less of me, but I don't care that much about others in this regard. I am caring but there's only so far I can go with it. If it's self induced and the person is aware of the risks, then they've chosen their path. They know what they're doing and I suppose I just consider my input being one of example.


I don't think it makes you sound harsh. I agree and well put: "If it's self induced and the person is aware of the risks, then they've chosen their path." Except that I think the same even if they have chosen a healthy path--it is theirs to choose. I would like everyone to choose health and happiness, but that is not mine to decide for them.


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happymusic
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21 Jan 2011, 10:42 pm

Kaybee wrote:
happymusic wrote:
Kiseki wrote:
I certainly see what you are saying. I wouldn't nag someone over their smoking habit, just let them know it might be better for them (and others around them) if they tried to quit. Chances are they want to. I know smokers say they enjoy smoking, but I think most of them would rather quit if possible.


Good point.


Funny, I thought it was the opposite. Many smokers actually do enjoy smoking and do not want to quit. Many do want to, but many do not.


Yeah, I can see your point, too. I know both kinds.



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22 Jan 2011, 7:10 am

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic! :)



leejosepho
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22 Jan 2011, 7:39 am

Helixstein wrote:
Are cigars as unhealthy as cigarettes, or are they both equally unhealthy.

I would say both are unhealthy, but not necessarily in all the same ways since cigar smoke is not always inhaled.


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happymusic
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22 Jan 2011, 8:21 am

leejosepho wrote:
Helixstein wrote:
Are cigars as unhealthy as cigarettes, or are they both equally unhealthy.

I would say both are unhealthy, but not necessarily in all the same ways since cigar smoke is not always inhaled.


Yeah, both are unhealthy but cigars are linked more to cancer of the mouth rather than the lungs. Even dip, in which there is no smoke at all is connected to mouth cancer. Ew.



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23 Jan 2011, 2:33 pm

I puff like a magic dragon. I am not averse to dying or to being the cause of my own death. I enjoy smoking and am glad to have a small stress reliever. I enjoy the smell of tobacco smoke, though I have been told I do not 'smell like a smoker' from people who have just learned that I smoke.

I have quit smoking several times. The physical symptoms of withdrawal are annoying for a few days (okay, nearly unbearably annoying) but the mental craving lasts longer than nicotine withdrawal. I always come back after a few months, with no regret.

Oh, and the greatest joy of smoking comes from creating my own little packet of hand-rolled, organic, additive-free indulgence! When I can make the trip downtown to the tobacconist, it's rollies all the way for me. Sometimes, after a long day, I'll roll in a little greenery too. Light it up! :bom:



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23 Jan 2011, 2:44 pm

I have tried a cigarette, a cigar, a joint, some weird Iranian tobacco from a pipe (all whilst very drunk), just once, and they were all awful :lol:. I have no reason to try these again.



happymusic
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23 Jan 2011, 4:16 pm

eudaimonia wrote:

Oh, and the greatest joy of smoking comes from creating my own little packet of hand-rolled, organic, additive-free indulgence! When I can make the trip downtown to the tobacconist, it's rollies all the way for me. Sometimes, after a long day, I'll roll in a little greenery too. Light it up! :bom:


Oh yeah, when people roll their own with good tobacco it doesn't bother me in the least. Cool! :)



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23 Jan 2011, 7:04 pm

I used to be a smoker - for about 10 years, and smoked 20 per day.

I've been smoke-free for 6 months - no cravings, no willpower required, and no way I'm ever smoking again :D

If any of you smokers want to quit I highly recommend Easyway.
The books are as little as 1p from Amazon, although I some aspies/autistic folk may find it works better in one of their clinics which cost a bit but it's cheaper than smoking and there's a money back guarantee (I got the method, but it didn't kick-in for me until I attended one of their clinics). No willpower, no nicotine replacement, and it's around 90% effective - after trying EVERYTHING to quit this worked straight away, total freaking miracle! I bought a few of the books for friends and they're now smoke-free too. And no, I don't work for them :P

I'm still a supporter of smokers rights - I'm anti-smoking but pro-smokers.
People forget smokers are victims of an addiction (not a habit), one that you have to work so hard in maintaining while it takes so much from you, not just your health and money - I personally also think it's worse for ASD people as it can increase anxiety to boot. It was once socially acceptable, it's largely government supported given money made in taxes and how little is done to help smoker quit v's what is done to encourage smokers to continue smoking, and no one ever chose to become a nicotine addict...that first smoke is so disgusting you think you will never become addicted so it's safe to try another, before you know what's happening you're hooked.

Do you know what day smokers will smoke most on?
National no-smoking day.

Seriously, the idea of giving up an addiction makes you panic, makes you anxious and stressed, and what does a nicotine addict do when they are panicked, anxious and stressed? Reach for a pack of cigarettes of course - so nagging doesn't work.

No smoker enjoys smoking - what the hell is there to enjoy?
Non-smokers have to try to explain why smokers smoke, it's hard for them to understand why smokers continue to smoke when they know it's bad for them, and smokers have to justify it to themselves to remain smokers, it's part of the trap of nicotine addiction. Smokers know it's bad for them, they're not idiots and don't need non-smokers pointing it out to them as if they are idiots - nothing worse than lighting up to someone saying "That's bad for you ya know" - "Nooooo, REALLY??! Hell all this time I thought it was GOOD for me! How stupid am I?! Thank you for teaching me the error of my ways oh wise one...can you also clarify something to me oh sage; laying down in front of a bus, bad idea right?" :roll:

*steps off soap box*



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23 Jan 2011, 7:13 pm

Bloodheart wrote:
If any of you smokers want to quit I highly recommend Easyway.


I usually recommend those books, worked for me. Best 6 quid I ever spent.


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