I need advice - could be in huge trouble (long read)

Page 3 of 4 [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

CosmicRuss
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2010
Age: 153
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,103
Location: Location:Location

07 Feb 2011, 11:11 am

Speak to lawyer.
Give lawyer your GP name and address and give your permission for contact and personal information to be exchanged.
Speak to GP via an appointment at home if you don't want to leave the house.
Speak to a social worker from your local council who specialises in court work.

As said by other posters don't post any information on a public forum.


_________________
"Been there, done that, got the t-shirt"
- CosmicRuss


StuartN
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,570

08 Feb 2011, 4:29 am

vermontsavant wrote:
#1 get a good lawyer,the best you can afford.next-get the best psychologist you can afford so the lawyer knows as much as possible about aspergers syndrome.then you need to try for leanient plea bargain bu agreeing to testafy against your co defendent.if this is your first ofense and you cooperate you should avoid jail and a felony record


This is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with the Western criminal justice system.

I would prefer that the system, including the suspects, was directed at establishing the truth and applying appropriate sanctions, not hiding the truth, shifting the blame and further brutalizing the victims. Always tell the truth with pride, whatever else you are ashamed of.



Millstone
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 109

08 Feb 2011, 4:32 am

Since it hasn't been posted yet on this page, don't talk to the police



StuartN
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,570

08 Feb 2011, 10:46 am

Millstone wrote:
Since it hasn't been posted yet on this page, don't talk to the police


I wish somebody would do a good scientific study on this kind of advice - does it actually benefit the suspect (or anyone else) not to tell the truth? Does it ever do anything except pay lawyers' fees, increase taxes, promote dishonesty and make for a more hostile and adversarial process? Is there any benefit of any kind to the community? Not to mention the lack of compassion for the victims of crime.

The legal representatives that I know advise their clients to tell the truth, once appropriate safeguards are in place to protect against vulnerability and coercion. Where I live, I am reasonably certain that people without private legal representation who take the advice to keep silent spend longer on remand and get rougher treatment in court. "Early and full disclosure" is often cited in sentencing reports, as often as "remorse".



2ukenkerl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,934

08 Feb 2011, 8:05 pm

Sorry C90R! Under logic, and US law, which IS mostly based on UK law, you ****ARE**** guilty! YOU are what is known as an ACCOMPLICE! The more trouble you had in getting there, the less chance that you believed it was harmless, and the less you were threatened BEFORE the fact, the harder the courts are likely to treat you!

BTW if you tell them you have agoraphobia, you are effectively telling them you had a LOT of trouble doing this! If you tell them you have AS, and fear social situations, you are effectively telling them you had a LOT of trouble doing this! That means you could be THROWN IN JAIL!

What you should do is:

1. Get a lawyer.
2. Tell the police enough to brand you as a harmless/helpfull accomplice, and send the other guy up the river.

If you are LUCKY, you may get NO jail time, and he may get decades.

People like you have caused me a LOT of grief! Frankly, I agree with StuartN.

ALSO, you do NOT sound like you have AS **OR** agoraphobia, and sound like you fit the profile for someone that is more than an accomplice. If you are telling the truth here, try to talk to some ex felons, or something about getting acclimated to a new life.



Cornflake
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,969
Location: Over there

08 Feb 2011, 9:37 pm

StuartN wrote:
I wish somebody would do a good scientific study on this kind of advice - does it actually benefit the suspect (or anyone else) not to tell the truth?
It's not really about telling lies, more about not saying things which could incriminate yourself.
You don't have to say anything to the Police but they're trained to gather evidence - the 'good cop, bad cop' is a typical ploy, or the 'friendly cop' suggesting that this whole thing could be quickly cleared up and you'll be on your way if only you'd talk - and too many people do talk, landing themselves in an even bigger mess.
It's the prosecutor's job to convince a jury that someone is guilty, and what gets said during Police interviews will be used - even if it was blurted out in fear, confusion or uncertainty.

Quote:
"Early and full disclosure" is often cited in sentencing reports, as often as "remorse".
Once the case is tried and guilt is established, yes - but saying too much and incriminating yourself beforehand can and does result in innocent people - especially those with behavioural difficulties - being punished.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


Cornflake
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,969
Location: Over there

08 Feb 2011, 9:43 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
Sorry C90R! Under logic, and US law, which IS mostly based on UK law, you ****ARE**** guilty! YOU are what is known as an ACCOMPLICE!
With mitigating circumstances, and it would be the job of the defence to use these to convince a jury that the criminal intention wasn't present.

Quote:
2. Tell the police enough to brand you as a harmless/helpfull accomplice, and send the other guy up the river.
NO! That information will be used by the prosecution to build a case against you.
Say nothing and you give them no weapons.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


tksteph
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 74
Location: NC

08 Feb 2011, 9:49 pm

I'm with Cornflake. Don't talk to the police.

There's a really good video on youtube where a Law Professor gives a lecture on why not to, it's kinda long but very informative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik


_________________
Who are you... and how can I try? Here inside I'm like metal. Aren't you?


Chama
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 165

08 Feb 2011, 9:54 pm

I think the most important point in what happened is that she was told to knock on the door and DID NOT KNOW why. Yes, she was drunk, and that has to be considered. But, if I put myself into a situation where I was with someone and was NOT drunk and they told me to knock on a door, I have a hard time saying no to people when there seem to be no harm in the action. And for someone with AS who usually has trouble knowing another person's intentions or even considering them, it won't seem like a big deal to just knock on a door. And if it were me, I would maybe want to ask why, but not want to be difficult so I would just do it. There are many things I do without knowing why, when someone directs me to do it, if it seems like it does not matter why (Such as asking me to set an item somewhere strange where I feel that it does not belong, but I will do it anyway because I think that it doesn't matter, there is no harm in setting it here even though I find it strange.)
If AS is taken into account properly, then it could be shown that knocking on the door should not make her an accomplice because those with AS often do not know the intentions of others and just being asked to knock on a door seems completely harmless, anyway.

I don't understand legal technicalities, but I think representing the truth as it is is the best way to go, when one is allowed to explain the truth and the REASON BEHIND IT.

If you're having trouble communicating with your lawyer, you should write a letter! A LONG one! Explain to him that you are having trouble communicating verbally with him -- stress is probably making it worse for you, and making it harder to communicate in person because you have to respond more quickly.
When I have to go to the doctor, I am bad at telling a doctor what is wrong with me and what I need from them so I'm in the habit of printing out a letter and they read that instead. It's very helpful, so if you can make a letter, it would probably help you AND your lawyer out a lot.

You had no idea he was going to break in, you had no intention of breaking in, you did not help once it happened, and I'm sure you were scared. What a fast change of events.

Was a blood-alcohol level test done in a timely manner? That seems like it's really important information, because how much alcohol was in your system could directly relate to how you are judged, even considering AS.

How are you doing??



Cornflake
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,969
Location: Over there

08 Feb 2011, 10:03 pm

Chama wrote:
I don't understand legal technicalities, but I think representing the truth as it is is the best way to go, when one is allowed to explain the truth and the REASON BEHIND IT.
Yes. And this is where the defence lawyer steps in. They're trained to handle the legal complexities and should know what questions to ask a suspect and be able to present this information in a way which establishes innocence.

Quote:
If you're having trouble communicating with your lawyer, you should write a letter! A LONG one! Explain to him that you are having trouble communicating verbally with him -- stress is probably making it worse for you, and making it harder to communicate in person because you have to respond more quickly.
This is a good idea.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


Puppygnu
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jan 2011
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 137

08 Feb 2011, 11:17 pm

First, do not post anything else on the internet about this issue.
Second, hire a lawyer.

Here are three things to consider.
1. Did you cross the threshold of the home? If yes, then you were trespassing.
2. Did you make physical contact of any sort with the persons in the house? If yes, then this is assault.
3. Your story seems implausible to me. I can not imagine a person with agoraphobia and autism getting drunk and lying about being an insurance sales person. Why would he need you to pretend to be a sales person to pull off the crime? How could he trust you in the first place? I also wonder why you stayed for the robbery. I would have either run away or attempted to defend the people, and immediately called the police. I also fail to understand the victim's motive for not being 100% honest. If I was in their shoes, I would be absolutely honest to ensure a conviction of the guilty party.



Cornflake
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,969
Location: Over there

09 Feb 2011, 10:25 am

Puppygnu wrote:
1. Did you cross the threshold of the home? If yes, then you were trespassing.
2. Did you make physical contact of any sort with the persons in the house? If yes, then this is assault.
While these may be technically correct, let's not shoot down any remaining defence, shall we? :wink:
The defence lawyer should know how to present information showing that the intent wasn't present which would, I hope, sway any verdict to innocent.
The best course is not 'fess up - unless the OP really is looking forward to a spell in pokey.

Quote:
3. Your story seems implausible to me. I can not imagine a person with agoraphobia and autism getting drunk and lying about being an insurance sales person.
I'm not so sure. I've done some pretty stupid and inexplicable things (one of which actually involved arrest) and with hindsight, the situations at the time were probably screaming "inappropriate" or "dangerous" at me - yet I did them anyway, and I would think that the particular "situation assessing" difficulties inherent to AS would be more likely to exacerbate the chance of something very silly happening. This is what the defence should use as mitigation - and quite justifiably, IMHO.

Quote:
Why would he need you to pretend to be a sales person to pull off the crime?
This was a ploy suggested by the "friend", so that the door would be more likely to remain open so the "friend" could barge in. Since he was known to the residents, if he'd knocked on the door it would have probably been slammed shut immediately.

Quote:
If I was in their shoes, I would be absolutely honest to ensure a conviction of the guilty party.
Unfortunately that's not how it works.
The Police would work to convict both parties, but the defence should ensure that the real offender is convicted - the only one clearly demonstrating criminal intent: he was carrying a knife; that's unlikely to be accidental and anyway, in the UK this act alone is a criminal offence.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


oddone
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Sep 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 352

09 Feb 2011, 10:48 am

tksteph wrote:
I'm with Cornflake. Don't talk to the police.

There's a really good video on youtube where a Law Professor gives a lecture on why not to, it's kinda long but very informative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Very clever, very funny and appropriate in the United States.

But this offence was in the UK. The right to silence works slightly differently. There are different safeguards in interviews. Some of the tricks used by the police to deceive the suspect would be illegal in the UK. And interviews are video recorded. Better advice would be do not talk to the police without the advice and presence of a solicitor, and in this case probably an Appropriate Adult.

Lots of well meaning folks in the US are assuming that everything is the same in the UK as it is in their state, and it isn't.



Cornflake
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,969
Location: Over there

09 Feb 2011, 11:29 am

oddone wrote:
Very clever, very funny and appropriate in the United States.
He's pretty sharp! 8O
The basic points about remaining silent (around 8:20) are very relevant.

Quote:
Lots of well meaning folks in the US are assuming that everything is the same in the UK as it is in their state, and it isn't
Yep. We're not the 51st state. :lol: Well, not yet anyways...
Information on the UK arrest caution (especially the last paragraph) and the UK right to silence.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


Todesking
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,088
Location: Depew NY

09 Feb 2011, 12:03 pm

When I was a teenager a good number of my friends were breaking into houses they constantly wanted me to do it with them because of how big I was so if the home owner came home I could either scare the s**t out of them or I could simply beat the crap out of them. Lucky for me I made the descion to stop hanging out with them. Three of them are in jail for burglary or drug charges, one is now a cop, and the other is a prison guard. I knew what they were doing was wrong so I took no part in what they were doing.

When you go to jail make sure you let them know you are autistic. While being processed into the prison they will evaluate you act more autistic then you normally do maybe you will get lucky and get put into protective custody or with the mentally ill inmates. While going through you court procedures use this time to find a psychologist that you can lie to to make your symptoms worse looking so he can write you something that will let the courts and prison know you are very close to low function autistic. Odds are you are going to get railroaded by the court system so screw them you might as well make yourself look more pitifull then what you are they might go easier on you in the sentancing and placement.

When you get to prison sign up for any prison penpal programs you can find. A lot lonely women write to inmates. Write to as many as you can make yourself as pitfull as possible so they will feel sorry for you putting money on your books. All the guys I know who went to prison did this it provided them with extra food, hygine products, and tvs. It sh!tty thing to do but why suffer when you in the can. You will give some lonely people a little attention making them feel better about them selves so I guess it is not that bad. :wink:

If you do go to prison see if you can find someone who can post your prison address on WrongPlanet. Writing people will give you something to do that might make your day go by quicker once you get there. :wink:


_________________
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die -Hunter S. Thompson


Last edited by Todesking on 09 Feb 2011, 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.