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AceOfSpades
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16 Feb 2011, 3:16 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
There is multiple reasons why someone could go on a killing spree in a school.

1. Sociopath
2. Unable to distinguish reality from fantasy.
3. Brainwashing -- as in the case of many suicide bombers
4. Pushed way too far by bullies over the course of monthes even years -- more often these individuals commit suicide
5. Gang related


So again there are multiple possible reasons.


This is true, but again many of those can (and often do) fall under sociopathy.
What are you talking about? #2 is insanity, #3 can be insanity or a clusterf**k of cognitive distortions which verge on insanity, #4 is vengeance, and #5 is a way of life.

Do you know what sociopathy is or do you just think it's a vague term for anyone who is crazy or weird and has violent tendencies? Sociopathy is a clinically defined term.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Feb 2011, 3:22 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
What are you talking about? #2 is insanity, #3 can be insanity or a clusterf**k of cognitive distortions which verge on insanity, #4 is vengeance, and #5 is a way of life.

Do you know what sociopathy is or do you just think it's a vague term for anyone who is crazy or weird and has violent tendencies? Sociopathy is a clinically defined term.


I know all too well what a sociopath can be capable of.

2... Sociopaths can be insane, too.

3... As I have said earlier in this thread, sociopaths often prey on the weaker willed. This includes brainwashing someone.

4... What... so sociopaths can't feel a need for vengeance?

5... I never said they ALL fell under sociopathy.

Perhaps you should read the thread in it's entirety before jumping to the end and assuming I don't know what I'm talking about.


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AceOfSpades
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16 Feb 2011, 3:45 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
What are you talking about? #2 is insanity, #3 can be insanity or a clusterf**k of cognitive distortions which verge on insanity, #4 is vengeance, and #5 is a way of life.

Do you know what sociopathy is or do you just think it's a vague term for anyone who is crazy or weird and has violent tendencies? Sociopathy is a clinically defined term.


I know all too well what a sociopath can be capable of.

2... Sociopaths can be insane, too.

3... As I have said earlier in this thread, sociopaths often prey on the weaker willed. This includes brainwashing someone.

4... What... so sociopaths can't feel a need for vengeance?

5... I never said they ALL fell under sociopathy.

Perhaps you should read the thread in it's entirety before jumping to the end and assuming I don't know what I'm talking about.
They can be comorbid, but they don't necessarily fall under sociopathy. It's like saying depression falls under Asperger's. And Inuyasha is talking about them being brainwashed, not them brainwashing others.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Feb 2011, 3:52 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
They can be comorbid, but they don't necessarily fall under sociopathy. It's like saying depression falls under Asperger's. And Inuyasha is talking about them being brainwashed, not them brainwashing others.


Perhaps I chose my words poorly. I meant that sociopaths can fall under most of the things listed. At the very least, play a part in it... such as the suicide bomber that was brainwashed by a sociopath.

Completely separating them all into different categories and suggesting sociopaths can't overlap is just ignorance on the subject.


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AceOfSpades
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16 Feb 2011, 3:57 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
They can be comorbid, but they don't necessarily fall under sociopathy. It's like saying depression falls under Asperger's. And Inuyasha is talking about them being brainwashed, not them brainwashing others.


Perhaps I chose my words poorly. I meant that sociopaths can fall under most of the things listed. At the very least, play a part in it... such as the suicide bomber that was brainwashed by a sociopath.

Completely separating them all into different categories and suggesting sociopaths can't overlap is just ignorance on the subject.
Oh ok I got you now. He put em in different categories cuz they're different causes, not to imply that these different causes can't interact with each other.



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16 Feb 2011, 3:59 pm

Ah... okay. Then I don't disagree with his list. :-P


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16 Feb 2011, 5:03 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Yes, actually, it does.


No. Actually it doesnt.

A sociopath is someone who is adept at exploiting others for his own benifit and feels no remorse.

The ultimate sociopath would be Bernie Madoff.

Those words are from someone who cant win anyone over for friendship, nor to give him the time of day, nor for anything.

If anything hes the polar opposite of a sociopath.



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16 Feb 2011, 6:27 pm

MCalavera wrote:
ikorack wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Yes, actually, it does.


Because sociopaths are known for committing themselves to future generations of the weak?


No, but they are well known to lie for no good reason other than to cause anguish.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial ... sorder#DSM

mentions nothing of that, nor does the criticism section.


What part of

deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

did you not notice?


For personal profit or pleasure is not the same as for causing anguish.

EDIT: @Earl All but the first of his points have no inherent tie to sociopaths.



MCalavera
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16 Feb 2011, 6:35 pm

ikorack wrote:
For personal profit or pleasure is not the same as for causing anguish.


Causing anguish can be for one's own pleasure. You've never lived with a real narcissist, have you?



TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Feb 2011, 6:42 pm

Causing anguish can be for one's own pleasure.

My thoughts, exactly.


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16 Feb 2011, 7:31 pm

MCalavera wrote:
ikorack wrote:
For personal profit or pleasure is not the same as for causing anguish.


Causing anguish can be for one's own pleasure. You've never lived with a real narcissist, have you?


>.< now your just being difficult, can be is not always, which is what your response implied. No I have encountered them but I haven't been in a situation where tolerating their presence is necessary.



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16 Feb 2011, 7:32 pm

Try having a sociopath for a parent.


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16 Feb 2011, 7:32 pm

The word "sociopath" is being thrown around here. This is no longer a clinical label. It was reclassified as antisocial personality disorder. For sake of accuracy, if one is not yet 18 years old, they can't be diagnosed as a "sociopath", having antisocial personality disorder. Could they be a budding "sociopath"? Yes. Technically, it would be a conduct disorder for most of those shooters at schools.

Other personality disorders and psychiatric conditions can cause irrational (and dangerous) behavior. Episodes of constant bullying and a negative home environment can cause a first time episode of psychosis. Of course, it can be argued that a child with a history of bullying and a negative home environment are at risk for developing a personality disorder.

Whether they are born that way or not is one of the hottest controversies in psychiatry. For many personality disorders, environment or trauma has often been listed as their main cause or trigger. The past 5 years of research have resulted in some interesting revelations, such as biology playing a much larger role than we once thought. The amount depends on which PD we are talking about. I specifically interned within the speciality of Borderline Personality Disorder (though quite a few with BPD have a comorbidity of other PDs) in order for future certification in Dialectical Behavior Therapy. Once thought to be untreatable, there is treatment & brain abnormalities have been found. The new research being done on personality disorders is very interesting & exciting.

Unfortunately, APD is probably still the least treatable of PDs because they generally lack insight. Therapy can give them the tools to better manipulate or lie to people. CBT may be beneficial.

Feeling the need to emphasize this after saying all that, personality disorder does not always equal dangerous. I worked with quite a few who wouldn't hurt anyone.



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16 Feb 2011, 7:35 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Try having a sociopath for a parent.


Is this directed at me? Because I don't think that statement has any relevancy.



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16 Feb 2011, 7:42 pm

ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Try having a sociopath for a parent.


Is this directed at me? Because I don't think that statement has any relevancy.


You're right, it doesn't. Yes, it was directed towards your assertion that you've never had to deal with a sociopath.

It's hard.

abaisse, I didn't get into all of that because I prefer to keep my answers direct to the point. Yes, I know it's been re-classified. Most people just recognize 'sociopath' far easier than antisocial personality disorder.

I prefer for people to understand me, so I choose my language based on the people that I'm talking to.


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16 Feb 2011, 7:54 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Try having a sociopath for a parent.


Is this directed at me? Because I don't think that statement has any relevancy.


You're right, it doesn't. Yes, it was directed towards your assertion that you've never had to deal with a sociopath.
Quote:

Well it was narcissist not sociopath but I suppose I haven't had to deal with a sociopath either.

Quote:
It's hard.


I assumed it was, but its still irrelevant.