Do Apsies emit pheromones that anger NTs?

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nick007
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22 Feb 2011, 2:42 pm

NTs get very upset with me when I do or say things offline or on sites other than WP but when a typical NT does the same exact thing; people like em. I don't understand why I'm automatically judged & hated even when I act like a typical NT


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22 Feb 2011, 3:29 pm

I've often wondered something similar--if I don't exude something that tends to freak people out and make them avoid me, even if I think I'm acting "normal." Granted, this usually happens IRL with me.


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CranialRectosis
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22 Feb 2011, 3:55 pm

NTs can't read your mind. It puts them off. When an NT reaches out to other NT's they get intuitive responses that let them know that they are communicating. We don't respond. From us they get a big blank.

NTs are taught that sociopaths and psychotics respond the way we do. It makes them afraid.

I find that it is worse in groups. NTs participate in 'group think'. It allows them to justify atrocity among other foolish actions. Groups of NTs have ALWAYS responded to me with violent opposition. Single NTs are more likely to be reasonable as they are able to think for themselves.



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22 Feb 2011, 3:59 pm

Some people can be annoyed by me, but I like to think it is my strange behaviour at times... the pheromones would be a bigger problem, behaviour is something I can mimic to a certain extent, pheromones not.

I also know some people that tried NLP on me and it was not working, that could infuriate them a bit, but it was also fun (for me). (okay, I do think NLP is crap)



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22 Feb 2011, 5:52 pm

Quite possibly, especially if you're a nervous type. Animals smell fear and respond agressively.


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pennypincher
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22 Feb 2011, 7:10 pm

nick007 wrote:
NTs get very upset with me when I do or say things offline or on sites other than WP but when a typical NT does the same exact thing; people like em. I don't understand why I'm automatically judged & hated even when I act like a typical NT

I know exactly what you mean. You do the same thing someone else did and they were accepted when they did it, but if you do it, it is weird.



sandrana
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22 Feb 2011, 8:37 pm

I've wondered this myself; I've been hassled by coworkers and strangers alike, for no apparent (to me) reason. After doing some reading about Aspergers, I think I've discovered some of the wrong signals that I sometimes give off.

For example, I tend to wave my hands around when I talk...the gestures don't necessarily have anything to do with what I'm talking about, they're more for me, to help my poor overloaded brain chug out the words that I need to express myself. I often find that my audience gets distracted by this, so I tend to clench my fists or cross my arms over my chest to keep from fidgeting and flapping. This stops the hand-waving, but both the clenched fists and crossed arms can be perceived as aggressive body language, something I'd never thought of (I speak so softly and kindly, why would anyone think I'm being agressive, no matter what my hands are doing?)

Another thing I've noticed is that I don't modulate my voice the same way as NT's when speaking. If someone says "I hate this drizzly weather" and I respond "I love the rain!" the extra and unintentional emphasis on certain words sounds to NT's like I'm disagreeing with them, or disputing the validity of their statement or something.

After being diagnosed one of the most important things I think I've learned is that my own perception of the world that we live in is slightly skewed, and as a result my expression of myself probably is as well. It's a challenge to see where my miscommunications with the world at large are occurring, but it's been fairly gratifying as well.



soggy60
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23 Feb 2011, 8:31 am

Sandrana expressed it so well .it is 'how' you say what you say . . and somethime it's what you say to express yoru opinon/preference,etc.

I'll give two examples . . .deals with me (NT), girlfriend's 24 yr old son (AS)

1st time I meet him was a one minute introduction; I had to leave soon: I said "good bye", he didn't acknowlege my words...he was busy greetihg Mom ( no problem)

Example 1 :
He 'hangs out' in a park & plays computer games (no problem to me )
On way home from work,, I'm heading in general direction of 'his' park.
I call him and ask OK if i vist
He says OK
I say I'll be there in ten minutes
I get there and say " Hi There ...(name)..."
His first words "You picked a wrong time to visit"
. . my thought was...ok fine,bye
I asked why wrong time
. . .I just started a game

OK, thinks I, "we" agree in 1m min, and now "I" picked wrong time ?
.. .and he proceeds to ingore me in favor of his game
. .. well boy & girls, that make me feel like my visit was appreciated ! ( yes, scarcasim)

Example 2

He's at my house , ,lI grill dinner ( I'm a rather good cook)
he tells me "you don't know how to cook, the food is bad"
I kept my cool, .
. .further gentle questioning I leanred the food is not seasoned to his taste
. . I have no problem with 'not seasoned' ,I put many seasoning bottles
. . .on the table so everyone can have it their way
I did 'inform' him that not everyone likes melted ice cream on hamburgers . .
"Oh, I never thought of that" was his repsonse.

I do not knowif the above two NT examples/viewpoints can help, but
it may providesome insight as to why NT folks may respond to an AS they way it may happen...



jackbus01
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23 Feb 2011, 10:13 am

okay so what exactly are you saying to cause this problem? That is a very important piece of information you left out. It really is hard to know what is going on without some specifics.



jackbus01
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23 Feb 2011, 10:29 am

soggy60 wrote:
Sandrana expressed it so well .it is 'how' you say what you say . . and somethime it's what you say to express yoru opinon/preference,etc.

I'll give two examples . . .deals with me (NT), girlfriend's 24 yr old son (AS)

1st time I meet him was a one minute introduction; I had to leave soon: I said "good bye", he didn't acknowlege my words...he was busy greetihg Mom ( no problem)

Example 1 :
He 'hangs out' in a park & plays computer games (no problem to me )
On way home from work,, I'm heading in general direction of 'his' park.
I call him and ask OK if i vist
He says OK
I say I'll be there in ten minutes
I get there and say " Hi There ...(name)..."
His first words "You picked a wrong time to visit"
. . my thought was...ok fine,bye
I asked why wrong time
. . .I just started a game

OK, thinks I, "we" agree in 1m min, and now "I" picked wrong time ?
.. .and he proceeds to ingore me in favor of his game
. .. well boy & girls, that make me feel like my visit was appreciated ! ( yes, scarcasim)

Example 2

He's at my house , ,lI grill dinner ( I'm a rather good cook)
he tells me "you don't know how to cook, the food is bad"
I kept my cool, .
. .further gentle questioning I leanred the food is not seasoned to his taste
. . I have no problem with 'not seasoned' ,I put many seasoning bottles
. . .on the table so everyone can have it their way
I did 'inform' him that not everyone likes melted ice cream on hamburgers . .
"Oh, I never thought of that" was his repsonse.

I do not knowif the above two NT examples/viewpoints can help, but
it may providesome insight as to why NT folks may respond to an AS they way it may happen...


In example 1, it was simply an oversight, Sure come over but wait until the game is over (maybe 10 min). I would have asked him if he wanted me there at all. I understand the frustration though.
In example 2, you need to tell him that criticizing your food, in your house is rude and if he doesn't like it than don't eat it.

I agree the AS person was rude in both cases, but more importantly did you let him know he was being rude and why.

melted ice cream on hamburgers--hmm, that's different!



nick007
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23 Feb 2011, 9:29 pm

jackbus01 wrote:
okay so what exactly are you saying to cause this problem? That is a very important piece of information you left out. It really is hard to know what is going on without some specifics.

I'm not sure if your referring to me but I don't have a clue what I'm doing wrong. People complain that I don't talk much but when I try to engage in conversation people get upset. When I ask a question to try & understand something they think I'm pretending to be stupid, that I am stupid or that I'm being a smart-a$$. When I make a comment to someone to try & offer a friendly suggestion people assume that I'm stupid & don't know what I'm talking about or they think I'm being rude or critical when I'm not. Instead of telling me what I'm doing wrong; NTs accuse me of being rude, offensive, insensitive, stupid, retorted ect ect. I think I probably am retorted because I honestly do not know what I'm doing wrong sometimes that is so plainly obvious to everyone else.
The ironic thing is that when I was tested for Aspergers; AS was ruled out because the psychs thought I communicated to well verbally to have anything on the autism spectrum & that I was too smart to be autistic or anything because I had a high-school diploma yet most people tend to think I'm mentally retorted or some kinda trouble maker till they know me. I give off a really wrong vibe


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jackbus01
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24 Feb 2011, 4:40 am

nick007 wrote:
jackbus01 wrote:
okay so what exactly are you saying to cause this problem? That is a very important piece of information you left out. It really is hard to know what is going on without some specifics.

I'm not sure if your referring to me but I don't have a clue what I'm doing wrong. People complain that I don't talk much but when I try to engage in conversation people get upset. When I ask a question to try & understand something they think I'm pretending to be stupid, that I am stupid or that I'm being a smart-a$$. When I make a comment to someone to try & offer a friendly suggestion people assume that I'm stupid & don't know what I'm talking about or they think I'm being rude or critical when I'm not. Instead of telling me what I'm doing wrong; NTs accuse me of being rude, offensive, insensitive, stupid, retorted ect ect. I think I probably am retorted because I honestly do not know what I'm doing wrong sometimes that is so plainly obvious to everyone else.


Yes, I was referring to you. You probably should hang around some different people. The "I don't know what I'm doing wrong" complaint is common for people with AS. I wish I could be more helpful, sorry.

nick007 wrote:
The ironic thing is that when I was tested for Aspergers; AS was ruled out because the psychs thought I communicated to well verbally to have anything on the autism spectrum & that I was too smart to be autistic or anything because I had a high-school diploma yet most people tend to think I'm mentally retorted or some kinda trouble maker till they know me. I give off a really wrong vibe


Intelligence and verbal communication are not disqualifiers for AS.



sandrana
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24 Feb 2011, 8:45 pm

I can identify with Nick007 re: the strong vibes. I've gone through phases in my life where I haven't had anyone who really gets me. I'm lucky now to have good relationships with some very kind and understanding people, but what you describe sounds like the kind of frustrated isolation that I've experienced in the past.

We are the way we are; worrying about my weirdness or being embarrassed about it or feeling inferior because of it would be a waste of my energy. What's important now is that I'm learning how to manage in the world (these forums are a great resource).

I try to remind myself that the problems I have aren't necessarily due to having Asperger's--other people have problems too. There's a famous quote: "Be kind. Everyone you meet is carrying a heavy burden." If I want people to accept me in spite of my flaws, I have to be willing to accept flaws in others, even if the flaws are things like being a really mean jerk or being manipulative. I don't have to like these people or confide in them, but they're allowed to be messed up and irrational too.

If you can detach yourself from your interactions a bit, try to figure out what's going wrong (you don't necessarily have to ask). If you're like me, you probably won't make a great impression anyway, so why not try to make it at least an educational experience for yourself? I try to make myself remain calm and patient, even when people are being horrible. I've learned that getting emotional doesn't really help difficult communications.

Dealing with people is a challenge for everybody to some degree, but I'm pretty sure that with enough practice it can become less dreadful. :) good luck!



nick007
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24 Feb 2011, 9:14 pm

jackbus01 wrote:
nick007 wrote:
The ironic thing is that when I was tested for Aspergers; AS was ruled out because the psychs thought I communicated to well verbally to have anything on the autism spectrum & that I was too smart to be autistic or anything because I had a high-school diploma yet most people tend to think I'm mentally retorted or some kinda trouble maker till they know me. I give off a really wrong vibe


Intelligence and verbal communication are not disqualifiers for AS.

I thought so myself but the experts I saw believe different. As for as medical/psych professionals are concerned I do not have anything on the autism spectrum. When it comes to social services or accommodations or anything that might would help me deal or better cope with AS; I do not have AS so others think I'm making up an excuse.

sandrana wrote:
IIf you can detach yourself from your interactions a bit, try to figure out what's going wrong (you don't necessarily have to ask). If you're like me, you probably won't make a great impression anyway, so why not try to make it at least an educational experience for yourself? I try to make myself remain calm and patient, even when people are being horrible. I've learned that getting emotional doesn't really help difficult communications.

I think that's one of my biggest problems. I'm good at analyzing & giving advice to others on how to deal with a situation but when I'm in a situation I completely lose that ability. It''s like that part of my brain switches off


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sandrana
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28 Feb 2011, 3:59 pm

sandrana wrote:
IIf you can detach yourself from your interactions a bit, try to figure out what's going wrong (you don't necessarily have to ask). If you're like me, you probably won't make a great impression anyway, so why not try to make it at least an educational experience for yourself? I try to make myself remain calm and patient, even when people are being horrible. I've learned that getting emotional doesn't really help difficult communications.

I think that's one of my biggest problems. I'm good at analyzing & giving advice to others on how to deal with a situation but when I'm in a situation I completely lose that ability. It''s like that part of my brain switches off[/quote]

To be honest, this is still a challenge for me too :) I'm almost always aware that I should stay calm, but it doesn't always work out that way. I try not to beat myself up if I'm unsuccessful, congratulate myself when I am, and remind myself that it usually takes me many tries to master something new. I find that this cycle of positive reinforcement is slowly working...my emotional outbursts and tendencies to be uncooperative are much much fewer and far between.



soggy60
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10 Mar 2011, 8:46 am

> If you can detach yourself from your interactions a bit, try to figure out what's going wrong

Please do not think of it as 'wrong' . . . it is not "wrong' . ..as the NT in the above 'examples' AND with out knowing he is 'different'
the issues became one of 'interpretation'.

We agree on meeting in 10 minutes . .
. . I get there, say "Hi"
. . . I'm blown off- "bad time, I started a game"
. . . . . that's all he said, while facing the computer

Interpretations abound:
(remember,this is our first encounter & I know nothing of him)
- rude bastid !
Not a "Hi" or "Hello" , just a brush off
You're supposed to 'look' at the person you're talking to
( yes,exeptions...like if you're driving a car....)
- frikken game more important then 'our visit' that we agreed upon

Second encounter (cooking...)
by now I had learned of his differeces, found WP net ,and read ,read read.
That's why I had the patience to inqiure what he was trying to say with the "rude bastid" Bad Cook ,Bad Food comment . . .
I really think iof the cook thiing was the first enounter AND I didn't know of his differences,
he probably would have left the pinic at my house with a bloodly nose or a spatula stuck up his arse....

MAYBE : when a person speaks to you or asks a question

Look at the person, request "kildly wait a moment" . . .then"think hard of > how you will say < what you're about to say : does it present your point of view WITHOUT telling OR implying the other person point of view is not important / the person is wrong (expecetion : dealing with 'facts' based on science / math)
Opinions , taste (food , art) ARE NOT facts and should never be presented in a " I'm right, you're wrong " sentence stuructre . . .verbal or written