Standing Orders For The All Human Beings

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23 Feb 2011, 1:52 pm

1) Altruism should be the standing order for all human beings.

2) No human being/s should ever demand or impose altruism.

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Orwell
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23 Feb 2011, 2:18 pm

True "altruism," wherever it exists, is delusional and self-destructive.

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AceOfSpades
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23 Feb 2011, 2:25 pm

Altruism to a small extent is essential to co-existing with other people, but I don't believe it is down to the extent left wingers consider ideal. So I dunno whether to vote no or yes...

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23 Feb 2011, 2:37 pm

Sharing of resources and providing for peoples needs is necessary to one degree or another for any society. Otherwise there will be anarchy and violence. Groups generally figure it out when they're getting the short end of the stick and start making a fuss. What you call altruism is entirely a matter of semantics.

While the Utopian aims of Marxist Socialism have been a failure for the most part, at this point Randroid Social Darwinist Dystopias only exist in hell.

Last edited by marshall on 23 Feb 2011, 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 2:37 pm

Orwell wrote:

True "altruism," wherever it exists, is delusional and self-destructive.

So then, you would/might say there should only be one related "standing order" ...

2) No human being/s should ever demand or impose altruism.

We agree!

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Vigilans
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23 Feb 2011, 2:39 pm

I think the idea that altruism is somehow self-defeating is a reflection of the laziness of (the majority of) modern man in relation to his interest in helping others. Randroids are all just really, really lazy, not evil.

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 2:39 pm

Ah. I just now caught the conflict between this thread's title and its poll.

Oops.

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AceOfSpades
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23 Feb 2011, 2:42 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Yeah it's not necessarily self defeating if kept to a small scale, but make it too big and you have the weight of the world on your shoulders as well as a big portion of the fruits of your labour being handed out to people who should've worked for it. I'm for a safety net, but I'm not for a safety net being used as a hammock.

Orwell
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23 Feb 2011, 2:50 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Recognizing your own interest in helping others is not "altruism." It is sanity.

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Vigilans
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23 Feb 2011, 2:53 pm

Orwell wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Recognizing your own interest in helping others is not "altruism." It is sanity.

That's a good point. I often proscribe to the idea that 'to be totally selfless makes one worthless'. Which perhaps sounds a tad harsh, but self-interest is important. Prioritizing self-interest can often lead to better ways of helping others in the long term

leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 2:54 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

... the weight of the world on your shoulders as well as a big portion of the fruits of your labour being handed out to people who should've worked for it ...

Not if/when altruism is only practiced among or is restricted to those who practice altruism ...

... and that begs the question of the goodness or rightness of having it as the standing order for all human beings.

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Philologos
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23 Feb 2011, 3:22 pm

leejosepho wrote:

1) Altruism should be the standing order for all human beings.

2) No human being/s should ever demand or impose altruism.

I MUCH prefer the MYOB code:

1 You must not offend others

2 If you are the other, you must not be too easily offended,

Equally impractical, but you can see that for a different race it could conceivably work.

AceOfSpades
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23 Feb 2011, 3:22 pm

leejosepho wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

... the weight of the world on your shoulders as well as a big portion of the fruits of your labour being handed out to people who should've worked for it ...

That's the point hence the "I'm not for a safety net being used as a hammock".

Orwell wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Recognizing your own interest in helping others is not "altruism." It is sanity.

I believe altruism is intrinsically rewarding so it doesn't always have to involve your own interest. I think it comes down to appreciation rather than opportunism.

leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 3:26 pm

Philologos wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

1) Altruism should be the standing order for all human beings.

2) No human being/s should ever demand or impose altruism.

Great minds think alike, and that fits well with a present thought for a new thread ...

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Vigilans
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23 Feb 2011, 3:28 pm

Philologos wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

1) Altruism should be the standing order for all human beings.

2) No human being/s should ever demand or impose altruism.

Be conservative in what you do; be liberal in what you accept from others?

Philologos
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23 Feb 2011, 3:39 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Philologos wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

1) Altruism should be the standing order for all human beings.

2) No human being/s should ever demand or impose altruism.

Be conservative in what you do; be liberal in what you accept from others?

I could buy into that restatement and even hold back from lexical nitpicking for five minutes.

It is, franlly, how I TRY to live, though I am not THAT far from human.

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