God Concept

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I'm not necessarily saying it's entirely a bad thing...just more observing the rough mechanisms of the process for the general consensus.

There are a lot of bad things that can come from it, though. It's a pure no true scotsman. And that presents some serious problems.

I have tried it. Then as I got older, I got more curious about the world and less gullible about people and their motives and less scared to question rules and laws.

Whoa. I have not said that. I have only said I have personal experience with God's doing something about evil.


Surely.


... and then presumed to draw one or more conclusions for all of mankind ...

... but then I prefer to do my own thinking, thank you!


I no longer have to drink, and God made that possible.




Certainly not ... unless, of course, one or more people might yet at least be willing to hear some reports of personal experience.


Not at all. I simply try to sort fact from mere opinion or whatever and get down to core questions and answers.


Same here! I see the evil in/of this world, and I also know I no longer contribute to it as I once had ... and that God alone has made that possible.

Ahh, your way of thinking is made clearer now. Seems like you helped yourself get over some problems and used god as a motivator (note how I said you helped yourself get over them, as it was your own strength which did it).

I cannot comment further as I do not know your personal history, neither do I have a right to know.

If I am hearing you correctly ...

1. I admitted I could not drink safely, and that neither could I manage my own way into permanent abstinence.
2. I came to believe (after hearing) a Power greater than myself could restore me to sanity concerning "successful living".
3. I made a decision to turn my will (what I want) and my life (what happens to me next) over to Him.
4. I made a searching and fearless moral inventory of my own personal "stock in trade" to offer Him and others.
5. I admitted to myself, to God and to others the exact (inherent, underlying) nature of my past wrongs committed.
6. I became entirely ready to have God remove all those defects of character long blocking me from "success" in life.
7. I ... (ahem) ... "humbly" asked Him to remove my personal shortcomings by way of equipping me as needed.
8. I made a list of all persons I had harmed in the past, and I became willing to make amends to them all.
9. I made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. I yet continue to take "personal inventory" (Steps 4 thru 9), and I now try to promptly address any new wrongs (evil) committed by me.
11. I Sought through prayer and meditation to improve my conscious contact with God as even you might understand or misunderstand God, praying only for knowledge of His will for me (things to do) and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps -- never mind what you might have ever heard elsewhere -- I now try to carry this message of personal transformation and right fellowship with God and others to anyone else who might yet ever either need or want it ... and to practice these principles in all my affairs.

Those are the "mechanisms" familiar to me, and they are certainly always open for inspection and subject to review by any and/or all human beings.

**do not pass collection plate**

Last edited by leejosepho on 28 Feb 2011, 12:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Nope. I did have to participate, but that was all done for me.


Not in even the slightest way.


Noted, and yes, even many people wrongly believe that ...


Please see "Step 1" in my previous post.


I ultimately nearly drank myself to death, but I had been committing evil against other people even long before that.

I understand some people don't like the curtain pulled back and I don't really have any dog in this so I'll step back now.

I hope you did/do not think I am/was calling anyone out. Rather, I have already been behind the curtain and I know what I know about what is actually there!

Ditto. But the Last Battle Dwarves know it all.

Not to say you are wrong, but just to show how the original A.A. members used to explain things to the next dying alcoholic ...

"The prosaic steel girder is a mass of electrons whirling around each other at incredible speed. These tiny bodies are governed by precise laws, and these laws hold true throughout the material world. Science tells us so. We have no reason to doubt it. When, however, the perfectly logical assumption is suggested that underneath the material world and life as we see it, there is an All Powerful, Guiding, Creative Intelligence, right there our perverse streak comes to the surface and we laboriously set out to convince ourselves it isn't so. We read wordy books and indulge in windy arguments, thinking we believe this universe needs no God to explain it. Were our contentions true, it would follow that life originated out of nothing, means nothing, and proceeds nowhere.
"Instead of regarding ourselves as intelligent agents, spearheads of God's ever advancing Creation, we agnostics and atheists chose to believe that our human intelligence was the last word, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and end of all. Rather vain of us, wasn't it?
"We, who have traveled this dubious path, beg you [the next dying alcoholic] to lay aside prejudice, even against organized religion. We have learned that whatever the human frailties of various faiths may be, those faiths have given purpose and direction to millions. People of faith have a logical idea of what life is all about. Actually, we used to have no reasonable conception whatever. We used to amuse ourselves by cynically dissecting spiritual beliefs and practices when we might have observed that many spiritually-minded persons of all races, colors, and creeds were demonstrating a degree of stability, happiness and usefulness which we should have sought ourselves." ("A.A.", the book, page 49)

And then ...

"In our personal stories you will find a wide variation in the way each teller approaches and conceives of the Power which is greater than himself. Whether we agree with a particular approach or conception seems to make little difference. Experience has taught us that these are matters about which, for our purpose, we need not be worried. They are questions for each individual to settle for himself.
"On one proposition, however, these men and women are strikingly agreed. Every one of them has gained access to, and believes in, a Power greater than himself. This Power has in each case accomplished the miraculous, the humanly impossible. As a celebrated American statesman put it, 'Let's look at the record.'
"Here are thousands of men and women, worldly indeed. They flatly declare that since they have come to believe in a Power greater than themselves, to take a certain attitude toward that Power, and to do certain simple things, there has been a revolutionary change in their way of living and thinking. In the face of collapse and despair, in the face of the total failure of their human resources, they found that a new power, peace, happiness, and sense of direction flowed into them. This happened soon after they whole-heartedly met a few simple requirements. Once confused and baffled by the seeming futility of existence, they show the underlying reasons why they were making heavy going of life. Leaving aside the drink question, they tell why living was so unsatisfactory. They show how the change came over them. When many hundreds of people are able to say that the consciousness of the Presence of God is today the most important fact of their lives, they present a powerful reason why one should have faith." (pages 50-51)

And then for some perspective here ...

"If he [the dying alcoholic] is sincerely interested and wants to see you again, ask him to read this book in the interval. After doing that, he must decide for himself whether he wants to go on [with this spiritual solution]. He should not be pushed or prodded by you, his wife, or his friends. If he is to find God, the desire must come from within.
"If he thinks he can do the job in some other way, or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us. But point out that we alcoholics have much in common and that you would like, in any case, to be friendly. Let it go at that." (page 95)

**all stand for "The Serenity Prayer", please**