Men's Discussion

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Why is it so hard to find a decent man on this website?

I'm one, by most accounts, but I don't want to be found by a woman who basically won't trust men ever again.

humans continue to disappoint other humans. news at 11.

I would like to have a PM discussion with somebody in this thread about some serious topics. It's really depressing and hurting me but I don't know who else really wants to listen and empathize.

You are welcome to PM me with your topic list, to see if they are in areas I feel competent about.

I can only answer that question on a superficial level, for there are some variables missing.

What is your definition of "decent men"? What are you expecting from them? Are your requirements for men maybe a little too high? You also should not judge the person behind the keyboard based on his/her writing style, since not everyone can express oneself well enough

Forgive me but I could not resist this.

Here's a direct link if the plugin isn't working. It's the song "Be A Man!" From Disney's Mulan.

I could be a decent man. But that is my opinion, and not necessarily the opinion of others!

I can also be PM'd, but I am in no way an authority on too much.

I've no earthly idea what you're talking about. I just try my best to be a good human being (with admittedly mixed results, but I am trying). I never give a moment's thought to being "manly" or handling my "masculinity", nor has it ever occurred to me that I needed to do so.
If someone thought me effeminate, so what? Is there something wrong with being female?
I'm also not threatened in the slightest by feminism (Which as Gloria Steinem observed is simply the revolutionary notion that women are actually people). I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that this is a brutal oppressive patriarchy where women earn 20% less for the same work, have a 1 in 4 chance of being assaulted and a 1 in 6 chance of being raped, and that this is inexcusable BS and a violation of both their rights to equal protection pursuant to the 14th Amendment and their human rights pursuant to the UN Charter (not to mention notions of basic fairness and common decency). Furthermore, I'm more than willing to stipulate that women should have complete and exclusive agency over their bodies free of the paternalism of either church or state.
How f*****g insecure does a guy have to be to feel threatened by equality?

And another thing; as a medic I've seen enough gunshot wounds to last several lifetimes. Guys who think that their "manliness" is in any way enhanced by prancing about brandishing a semiautomatic mass murder machine like some surrogate phallus truly disgust me.

Gloria's quote has been quite persuasive, but it is a red herring. Feminism has tried to re-define "people" along the way. I was raised to eschew any advantage of "patriarchy" yet I was treated as an equal by feminists. Instead, I was severely abused by my wife, and made a pariah because no man could avoid reminding her of her own abuser from time to time. Not long after I realized that even the term Feminist is sexist, I lost my whole community.
Yes, there is a pay gap, but there is also a value gap. A few years ago Newsweek ran a very well-controlled study showing that all else being equal, both men and women want 20% more pay to work for a female boss. As employees, they are naturally more distracted by pregnancy and motherhood, while fathers can be relocated and made to work harder, putting the company first and family second, as long as they are provided for.
We are constantly told that men are brutal patriarchs who oppressed all women until quite recently. There are quite a few leading feminists who are clearly planning a matriarchy as the proper response. However, the whole concept of patriarchy is a way to explain history in a way that splits the progressives, and lets the plutocrats who truly oppress us off scot free. Before the Industrial Revolution, a housewife was more important, because she was expected to produce both food and clothing from a kitchen garden plot, while homeschooling the children. Standard education, and moving to the cities, threw both men and women into new, dire straits. If men were really not used to considering the opinions of the women in their lives, it is very strange that they got the vote without using that other modern "great equalizer," the gun.
Gender issues can't be treated like racial issues. Adoption can change just about any "racial" characteristic except skin colour, but gender preference is not much affected by environment. We overlap considerably, but on average the genders each have different strengths, so we need to learn a new symbiosis, not a new way to be divided and conquered.

I like to think that even in the past there were decent men who didn't rape and beat their wives just because women were considered to be beneath men and they could get away with it. No matter how bad and unfair things tend to be in a society in any period of history I feel that you would always have some people who seemed like monsters (especially if they could get away with certain things they could never do now) but you also always had people who were nice and thoughtful of their fellow human beings. And like you said a wife and mother did have importance in the family because without her there was nobody around to cook the meals or make clothes or take care of everybody when they were sick. People hundreds of years ago didn't have the modern conveniences to take care of a home like we do today so it took a lot of hard work and everybody had to pull their weight to keep the family home alive including the husband, the wife, the children, and any other relatives who could lend a hand (unless you were rich and could afford servants of course).

In some cultures the woman ran everything in the home and people respected that and didn't try to mess with her.

^^ Aye, I'm quite sure that the majority of men have never been rapists. Unfortunately, the minority did reproduce, and seems to be defending its customs with laws against abortion, etc. For most men, the winning strategy to pass on their genes is the same as for women - nurture your children so they will succeed in life. However, as Jordan Peterson points out, you have twice as many female ancestors as males. Some men had far more children than any woman could, and many were cut out entirely. A man could never be sure if he was supporting his own children, and a solid 10% of the time, he wasn't. It paid to hedge his bets by sowing wild oats where possible, as it had proven nearly impossible to "protect his own field."
Harlequin Romances celebrate the success of various men who are good for their tribe, but not their children. Women find "bad boys" irresistible because their archetypes are the wandering traders and troubadours that gave us our advantage over the Neanderthals, and the young hotheads who would be first in defensive battles against man or beast.

Yeah I feel that this strong attraction to "Bad Boys" comes from the fact that they can be seen as "Alpha Males".

But when it comes down to it I don't think anybody wants to be in a relationship with an abuser no matter how attractive they seem to be.

^^ Exactly. Women want to have babies with heroes, but they want support for them too. Once we had blood typing, it became clear that in almost any culture, 10% of the men were being cuckolded. This is a constant source of drama, of course, and has probably driven the development of bigger brains. 10% is the "magic number" in between Bonobos and Chimps. It is low enough to keep fathers involved, but high enough to keep the gene pool from stagnating.
Now, Maury Povich has a TV show using genetic markers to back up proof of fatherhood, and women have such a sense of being entitled to designate a father that they will risk even that.