Which have it harder? Male Aspies or female Aspies?

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Which do you think has it harder? Male Aspies or female Aspies?
Males 25%  25%  [ 65 ]
Females 25%  25%  [ 64 ]
Both 32%  32%  [ 83 ]
I don't know 17%  17%  [ 44 ]
Total votes : 256

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02 Mar 2012, 6:01 am

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02 Mar 2012, 6:39 am

MrXxx wrote:
Pointless question IMHO. No man will ever know what it's like to be a woman and vice versa. Even with the advent of sex changes, transexuals will never know what it's like to grow up as whichever sex they end up choosing. That said, it is impossible for anyone to have a truly objective opinion about this.

Again, for the Nth time (I guess it's never enough), I strongly agree on this.



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02 Mar 2012, 6:58 am

mothers are expected to give a hundred and some percent of themselves, while fathers are allowed to be somehow part time parents. as a woman, if i had a baby, i'd be expected to make him/her the center of my universe.
girls are supposed to be more talktive, friendly, and sensitive to others moods and feelings. when a guy isnt all those things, it is accepted more easily than a girl who cant read people.
when a guy lives alone that's fine, but a woman living alone, without wanting children or a husband? people pity me, they want to pair me with someone, they dont take no for an answer, they nag, my parents used to say i'm ruining my life, but now they've given up, thank god.



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02 Mar 2012, 8:47 am

OJani wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
Pointless question IMHO. No man will ever know what it's like to be a woman and vice versa. Even with the advent of sex changes, transexuals will never know what it's like to grow up as whichever sex they end up choosing. That said, it is impossible for anyone to have a truly objective opinion about this.

Again, for the Nth time (I guess it's never enough), I strongly agree on this.


Well, one would have to define 'harder' with a series of quantifiable characteristics common and uncommon to both genders with Aspergers syndrome. There is no doubt that people would disagree upon the definition of 'harder', assigned variables, and final results. What comes into question IS, can anyone know how hard an individuals life IS, without having walked in their shoes ?

No. YET, our local, state, and federal government does IT everyday using a set of quantifiable standards in-order to set economic and social policies.

I think it can be done BUT obviously NOT to the satisfaction of ALL, maybe even most individuals.

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02 Mar 2012, 8:59 am

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
OJani wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
Pointless question IMHO. No man will ever know what it's like to be a woman and vice versa. Even with the advent of sex changes, transexuals will never know what it's like to grow up as whichever sex they end up choosing. That said, it is impossible for anyone to have a truly objective opinion about this.

Again, for the Nth time (I guess it's never enough), I strongly agree on this.


Well, one would have to define 'harder' with a series of quantifiable characteristics common and uncommon to both genders with Aspergers syndrome. There is no doubt that people would disagree upon the definition of 'harder', assigned variables, and final results. What comes into question IS, can anyone know how hard an individuals life IS, without having walked in their shoes ?

No. YET, our local, state, and federal government does IT everyday using a set of quantifiable standards in-order to set economic and social policies.

I think it can be done BUT obviously NOT to the satisfaction of ALL, maybe even most individuals.

TheSunAlsoRises

Unless you can look in the mind and see what exactly happens in there you haven't got a chance to tell objectively. Still have to wait a couple of hundred years.



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02 Mar 2012, 9:02 am

It depends. With boys symptoms usually are more serious, while female aspies are less noticeable. But for me, the fact that I don't know who I am, or that I get confused with my real self or my masked self is the hardes. After the diagnosis it really got easier.


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02 Mar 2012, 9:08 am

Unless you can look in the mind and see what exactly happens in there you haven't got a chance to tell objectively. Still have to wait a couple of hundred years.


Nope. Just because you do NOT agree with my criteria does NOT make them unobjective.

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02 Mar 2012, 9:25 am

OJani wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
Pointless question IMHO. No man will ever know what it's like to be a woman and vice versa. Even with the advent of sex changes, transexuals will never know what it's like to grow up as whichever sex they end up choosing. That said, it is impossible for anyone to have a truly objective opinion about this.

Again, for the Nth time (I guess it's never enough), I strongly agree on this.


Again, for the Nth time (I guess it's never enough), I strongly disagree on this.



OJani
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02 Mar 2012, 9:59 am

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Unless you can look in the mind and see what exactly happens in there you haven't got a chance to tell objectively. Still have to wait a couple of hundred years.


Nope. Just because you do NOT agree with my criteria does NOT make them unobjective.

TheSunAlsoRises

I thought I agree with you more than disagree.The problem with your criteria (and the main reason why can't there be a consensus on the definition) is that males and females perceive the world around them differently. Picture it as an optic, sunglasses, paradigm, whatever. In this respect it is not learned, it's innate, so cultural influences do not count. The refined definition then would be how all the measured variables effect the mind? Simply asking the individuals of the respective gender groups is pointless, communication is influenced by the very differences of perception (partly influenced by the learned culture). In the end you have to know what happens in the mind (what the individual with a particular mindset feels) to cover the additional variable of perception. This is a simplified model, in reality it would be much more complex, e.g. we'd have to do something with that cultural variable.



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02 Mar 2012, 12:12 pm

I voted "I don't know" I think that it's basically equally hard in different ways.

Or what about the people with AS who are not cis-gendered and straight?
What about the aspies who are intersex or transgender or androgynous?
What about the aspies who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual?

Life sucks when your different. It sucks even more when you are different in many ways.



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02 Mar 2012, 1:15 pm

OK it depends on where you live. Where I live, there are extra standards for women. If a man is doing anything unusual, like flapping or limping or talking slowly or looking retarded, they get away with it. People don't seem to stop and stare or shame them in any way. But if a woman does anything unusual, yes, they will get eaten up for dinner. I know this because I've seen it happen lots of times.

Also, in some of towns around the area where I am, women MUST wear make-up, have a presentable hairstyle, wear fashionable clothes, and love to go shopping for clothes. If you are a young female who doesn't wear any make-up, has a plain hairstyle, wears scruffy clothes, and looks bored and miserable in clothes shops, then you are totally f****d. You get looked upon by other women, and you do know it too. I can read body language of other people, so I know a funny look when I see one, and it happens to me a lot - right up until I got my hair styled and put on a bit of make-up and wore skinny jeans or leggins, and looked more enthusiastic in clothes shops. I don't get girls giggling at me any more, and I don't get weird looks any more.

It's OK for men - they don't have to put on make-up, and men's hairstyles are easier to maintain, and if they want long hair they don't even have to brush it if they don't want to, and they can just slip on a shirt and jeans, or a jumper or hoodie or whatever, don't have to worry about wearing a bra or not feeling obliged to have to wear these silky sexy knickers, and they can get away with looking bored in clothes shops. I've seen men following their wives around in clothes shops looking bored, and nobody seems to judge them against it. But the last time I was huffing and puffing in a clothes shop when I had to go in with my mum to choose a pair of shoes, two girls looked at me, then looked at eachother and smirked, then looked at me again, then walked away.

It's easy for females who don't care to be different, but it's harder for women who do care and have obligations to look presentable.


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Aaam
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02 Mar 2012, 1:55 pm

Joe90 wrote:
OK it depends on where you live. Where I live, there are extra standards for women. If a man is doing anything unusual, like flapping or limping or talking slowly or looking retarded, they get away with it. People don't seem to stop and stare or shame them in any way. But if a woman does anything unusual, yes, they will get eaten up for dinner. I know this because I've seen it happen lots of times.
All you're saying is that it's easier for someone that conform to what people expect? And what people expect are different based on o.a. sex, gender, etc.

How would people react to a thin tall man with a narrow chest, not much muscle, wide pelvis, blond hair, no facial hair, no body hair, soft skin, and small breasts? (note: all of this would be natural)



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02 Mar 2012, 2:08 pm

Aaam wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
OK it depends on where you live. Where I live, there are extra standards for women. If a man is doing anything unusual, like flapping or limping or talking slowly or looking retarded, they get away with it. People don't seem to stop and stare or shame them in any way. But if a woman does anything unusual, yes, they will get eaten up for dinner. I know this because I've seen it happen lots of times.
All you're saying is that it's easier for someone that conform to what people expect? And what people expect are different based on o.a. sex, gender, etc.

How would people react to a thin tall man with a narrow chest, not much muscle, wide pelvis, blond hair, no facial hair, no body hair, soft skin, and small breasts? (note: all of this would be natural)


Nothing - men are ''allowed'' to be a little unusual. They might just get fancied by less women (hair colour doesn't count), but I'm not talking about relationships or love here. I'm just generalizing here. Men can get away with looking fat, but fat women tend to get judged. That is why anorexia is more common in women, and also anxiety is more common in women. This is because there are more expectations for women, and Aspie women like me can't always handle it.


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02 Mar 2012, 3:41 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Nothing - men are ''allowed'' to be a little unusual.
From my experience I would say that the limits to what people "allow" is very narrow and strict? Only some kinds of being "a little unusual" is allowed, going beyond that line and things tend to become difficult very fast and often violently so.

Joe90 wrote:
They might just get fancied by less women (hair colour doesn't count), but I'm not talking about relationships or love here. I'm just generalizing here. Men can get away with looking fat, but fat women tend to get judged. That is why anorexia is more common in women, and also anxiety is more common in women. This is because there are more expectations for women, and Aspie women like me can't always handle it.
Men are indeed allowed to be fat, obese even, without much pressure to do something about it.

All men are however expected to become alpha males, those who don't are tolerated as best but never really respected. And life is generally much better for the alpha males then for anyone lower down and boys with AS tend to end up all the way down at the bottom?

The expectations for women tend to be more gentle and less violent, and in general this still holds: "Girls can wear jeans and cut their hair short, wear shirts and boots, because it's OK to be a boy, but for a boy to look like a girl is degrading, because you think that being a girl is degrading." (from "The Cement Garden") Which is bad for both girls and boys.

If the argument is "non-conforming girls have it worse then slightly unusual, but mostly conforming, boys" then I agree; However, if the argument is "non-conforming girls have it worse then non-conforming boys" then I do not agree. In general "hard" girls have it much better then "soft" boys.

btw. boys get anorexia too.



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02 Mar 2012, 3:59 pm

Aaam wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Nothing - men are ''allowed'' to be a little unusual.
From my experience I would say that the limits to what people "allow" is very narrow and strict? Only some kinds of being "a little unusual" is allowed, going beyond that line and things tend to become difficult very fast and often violently so.

Joe90 wrote:
They might just get fancied by less women (hair colour doesn't count), but I'm not talking about relationships or love here. I'm just generalizing here. Men can get away with looking fat, but fat women tend to get judged. That is why anorexia is more common in women, and also anxiety is more common in women. This is because there are more expectations for women, and Aspie women like me can't always handle it.
Men are indeed allowed to be fat, obese even, without much pressure to do something about it.

All men are however expected to become alpha males, those who don't are tolerated as best but never really respected. And life is generally much better for the alpha males then for anyone lower down and boys with AS tend to end up all the way down at the bottom?

The expectations for women tend to be more gentle and less violent, and in general this still holds: "Girls can wear jeans and cut their hair short, wear shirts and boots, because it's OK to be a boy, but for a boy to look like a girl is degrading, because you think that being a girl is degrading." (from "The Cement Garden") Which is bad for both girls and boys.

If the argument is "non-conforming girls have it worse then slightly unusual, but mostly conforming, boys" then I agree; However, if the argument is "non-conforming girls have it worse then non-conforming boys" then I do not agree. In general "hard" girls have it much better then "soft" boys.

btw. boys get anorexia too.


define 'hard' girls, I've dressed more like a male than a female for quite some time yet I would not describe myself as hard, or having it easier then your typical non conformist male outcast at school. It depends entirely on the specific situation and individual. Oh and yes I got made fun of for not dressing like a girl or having my hair in some girlish fashion so it is not necessarily true that everyone is ok with it when female dresses more like a guy.


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