Asperger's, Anxiety Disorder, and ADHD

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Remind him that everyone has to learn one step at a time. Just because these first steps are taking him a while does not mean it will always be the case. At his age there are still developmental phases involved which pace out differently for each child. The brilliant reader, picking up chapter books before K, may just be another good reader by 5th grade. And the kid who didn't read until 3rd grade may actually be fully caught up, reading the same books at the same pace as the kid who started before K. We see it all the time. Different pacing at this age is not an indication of full ability, and he needs to understand that. Plus, the emphasis of the grading rubric will change: now that my son can use spell check and is graded on the content of his essays instead of having to take spelling test after spelling test, his Language Arts grades are soaring. So, tell your son that if he keeps doing his best he may someday see a payoff in the form of grades that make him happy. You can't guarantee that, of course, but as long as he keeps doing his best he's certainly got a better shot at it than if he doesn't.

If I can just second what Caitlin said, I had some problems with math. The simple stuff I got very early on, fast enough that it was noticed, then as they tried to gradually move the skill up I just got frustrated. All of a sudden nothing made sense. I remember yelling at my poor parents once that this was stupid and didn't make any sense. They tried to help me, and even though my father was one of the best people at math I know even he had to agree how they were teaching kids my age math was in fact pretty hard to follow. The strange thing is, it was just that transitional stage I had problems with, moment they got to more advanced stuff I was again doing just fine and getting bored because everyone else kept taking forever.

I get the complex stuff very easily. It's the simple stuff that's the problem. But an even bigger problem is that there's a general assumption that if you can't get the simple you have no capacity to understand the complex. And thus there is no reason to even try to teach the complex if you struggle with the simple. Yet it wasn't until after I'd learned all that complicated math that I could look back on the simple stuff I'd struggled with and go 'oh, that's how it worked?! Why didn't they just explain it that way? Math isn't stupid, math teachers are stupid!'. Oh and BTW on a related subject, never say that to a math teacher's face, telling them what they were trying to teach you was too simplistic for you to grasp doesn't go over well.

These days if I struggle with something I've learned to just let it go for now, skip ahead and see if what I'm reading further up the ladder makes any more sense. I've found a lot of the time that's what I need to do because the missing pieces of logic that explain the why and makes the system 'click' into place in my mind rather than just go "just do it because it says so" are up there. If I could just do things "because it says so" life would be very different, but until there's a reason to either use the skill for my own immediate benefit or a logical explanation for why it works that way nothing drops into focus enough that I can grasp the system. I should note that this doesn't just apply to math, I generally tend to have problems with intro or beginner anything to the point of being frustrated to tears.

Obviously I don't know your son (but it sounds like a lot of his teachers and psychologists don't either!), so I have no idea if he's anything like me in this regard. He may not be, he may be more like my second oldest sister who never quite got math. It hasn't hurt her though, she's got her own company and is doing pretty good in life even if she does use a calculator for doing simple addition. But y'know... I was the math genius in my class through high school and college... and today if I need to do simple addition, let alone anything more advanced, I too reach over and grab my trusty calculator. Schools tend to overemphasis doing things the manual way IMO considering their adult life day to day use. The truth is that we live in a technological society where we don't need to write everything by hand or do all our math on an abacus. If doing it manually causes such distress, why not use the tech? If we don't use it to ease our difficulties, what was the point of inventing it? It's not like at the end of your life a little man appears and gives you a gold star for playing your life on Math Hard Mode. At least I sincerely hope not, that would be disappointing.. and kind of creepy.

LOL! Thank you for the laugh KBerg! and it would be creepy.

I have way backed off on the rigorous practicing. I see now that it wasn't helping the situation at all. In my mind, I just thought practice would make it easier, I didn't understand that I was just increasing the stress around the issue.

He has come to see that practicing helps in spelling.. He's gone from failing every spelling test to not just passing, but has even gotten a few 100%s which makes HIM happy.

So, in a more mellow way, I'm addressing the math situation by simply having him relearn his "count-bys". He used to know these, and he doesn't feel like he's doing math, so he doesn't get stressed out. This, with the video game seems to be doing ok. Once he gets more comfortable with these, I'll start introducing some more games.

I'm learning to relax.

Thank you for the kind words, and yeah, I think teaching math through a game he enjoy is pretty great! I won't guarantee anything, but y'know, I think there's more chances than not that you'll see some improvement after a while with that approach. Very few people are at their best when on top of doing something they find hard when they're getting stressed because of that pressure to be good at it.

I've kind of been there on that count (though mostly in other fields), and I ended up dreading those classes so much. I'd get really wound up because I wanted so much to do well and no matter how hard I'd try there would always be that look, or the comments like "You just need to try harder at this". It's so crushing when you give it your absolute best and that best gets dismissed as if you not even trying. If people react that way long enough eventually you stop trying, because you get the same response "you're not trying hard enough" no matter what. In the end it got so bad it felt like the teacher was bullying me, she would make me stay longer even though she had no legal right to do that and she just got angry and mean. Insisting I could do this if I'd just stop being difficult. My parents ended up pulling me out of her class and threatened to take it all the way to the minister of Education and the press if the teacher or school tried to stop them.

I did learn what she was supposed to have taught me, but from a tutor who mostly taught adults who'd lost the skill after a stroke or other accident. That man was a godsend because once he was told what had been tried and not worked he took another approach and was genuinely patient because he was used to very small improvements. He was really relaxed and positive, even if things were going awful that day as far as I could see - and that helped a lot since his reaction wasn't escalate the stress I was feeling but even reducing it a bit. He actually showed me what I was supposed to do, like physically what movements I needed to do rather than her approach of just telling me what I should do and saying "just do what everyone else is doing, they know how to". So I think your son may very well have every capability to learn math, but in the right environment at his own pace.

I should have posted that RightStart has a math game package that is useful to supplement any math program. It covers hundreds of games on all levels. It's great because some of the games are very fun to play socially. My FIL is an engineer and had little patients for young children's games. There are games they games they learn in first grade (like Corners) that are interesting enough for adults. My FIL had a great time with the games.

I just want to share... today has been a GREAT day!! !!

I had ordered some coloring books from Amazon, as coloring seems to work well for him as a destressor. I found some that touch his special interests, like Knights and Armor, and George Washington, and even a Vincent Van Gogh! He was really excited for them to come and we tracked them all the way across the country. From NV to CA to KY, and finally back to Oregon.... I think the UPS guy felt better than Santa with how excited my guy was! He was especially excited that I had secretly ordered a book on knights for him.

THEN..... In case you don't know, it's March 22.. RELEASE DAY for Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars. He dug $50 out of his Christmas/Birthday stash and dressed up in his Darth costume and was like "Okay mom! Ready? LET'S GO!! !!" And yes, in full Darth get-up, he marched his happy-ass into Walmart to make his purchase... LOL

He practically floated back to the car.

Hi I am new to Wrong Planet and my 9 yr old son (soon to be 10) is diagnosed with the same as your son, Aspergers, ADHD and Anxiety D/O. My husband and I are at our wits end. We have tried to give him the best opportunities. He is currently in ESE part of the day, he has an IEP due to his ASD dx., he receives language therapy at school and in the community as well as OT in both. He is currently in the 3rd grade. This week the psychiatrist suggested adding yet another medication to help with his anger/aggression. I really think this is too much. My husband and I are interested if anyone knows the best city to live in for ASD services in the US. We are retired military and would move anywhere to get more help for our son. We feel like the next step will be residential care if we cannot get more help for him at home.

I'm sorry, I can't answer your question about where to find the best services... There are a few others that I hope will see that question and might have an answer for you.

I totally understand your frustrations. My son goes from seeming completely normal, to freaking out- screaming and yelling and in your face, in nothing flat. I am lucky that he does not tend to get physically aggressive, but he seems to see no difference between adults and children when he's melting down and will tell either off accordingly. His psychiatrist was like, "Oh, I can give him another med to deal just with the meltdowns, no problem." But I too was leery of adding yet another med. I have been working really really diligently to try to be tuned into when Ben is getting anxious, asking him if he's feeling frustrated, and getting him to identify what is bothering him. From there, we work out the best way to deal with it. I don't catch it every time, but I'm getting better. AND..... sit down for this... HE'S getting better at recognizing it on his own. Not every time... but he used to never feel it coming... so any time he can say, "Mom... That just frustrates me!" is an improvement.

As I said, I totally understand your frustrations, but when I read that you were considering residential care as your next step, I cringed. I would give in and try the new meds before I considered that route. You can always quit giving a pill if it doesn't work out, but can you take back the experience of being put in residential care? Of course, you have to do what is best for your family... but I know my son would be devastated. I'm not trying to judge, but you have to consider what that would do to his anxiety, his feeling of security, his need for predictability. Perhaps in the long run, the structure of residential care might be a good thing for him, but deep in my soul..... I just don't think that would be a good thing, again.. at least not for my son.

I recognized a long time ago (before I knew what ASD was, before he was diagnosed with ADHD) that my son needed help with transitions, warnings that deviations to the normal routine would be taking place. My son checks the calender every morning when he wakes up. (This is something that he just started doing on his own, but now I make sure I put EVERYTHING on the calender.
I've found that lists work great for him, not only does it give him a visual reference for expectations and objectives, but a sense of accomplishment when the list is completed.
I encourage his destressor activities. Coloring, drawing, video games, tv, or a run around the house.
What I have learned most since coming here, is to not try to change WHO he is. Yes, give him tools to better deal with certain things, but realize he is who he is. I cannot in anyway change the fact that anxiety causes him to react or act out in certain scenarios. I cannot force him to be the "bigger man" in conflict. Having those expectations that he can at this age is unrealistic on my part. So I try to give him tools to deal better, and if it doesn't work, "Oh well, we'll try again next time." It is amazing the stress that it takes off you as a parent, and how much less I hear, "I'm sorry mom, I'm just stupid."

Another thing... Does your son have a good counselor? Let me tell you, it makes all the difference in the world. Psychiatrists seem to be good for nothing more than handing out meds. A good counselor will not only help your son, but help you understand what's going on with him and how best to help him.
ALSO.... in our area we have a non-profit organization Direction Service. If you qualify, which just means that your child has a diagnosed special needs issue, they assign you an advocate. They will help you find doctors, help get insurance, help with EIP meetings.... basically make sure that you have access to everything that's out there for you. And, they're only involved as much as you want them to be. In the beginning, ours was involved tons... but now.. to be honest.. I haven't talked to her since August!
I would find out if there is a service like this in your area. I can't even tell you how great it feels to have them and a good counselor behind you. I went from stumbling blindly for 3 years to suddenly feeling like I had some control in my life.

I don't know what you've gone through up to this point, or what all your son's issues are, or what you've tried and dismissed, but I encourage you to find more support... Finding the best counselor for your son is, in my opinion, the most important place to start. I would have never known about Direction Service or how to get an IEP without him.

Also, hanging out here really reminds you that you're not the only parent out there going through this, helps you look at things through a different perspective, and gives you new ideas of how to deal with things. I feel like I'm maybe to new to have the right to welcome you, but OMG.... you're in the right place!

There is a reason for his anger/aggression....you just need to figure out what is going on. What kind of support does he have to help him work through his anxiety and/or other behavioral issues? Medicating for anger/aggression doesn't help him learn how to cope with what is going on with him. He doesn't want to be unhappy and you don't want him to be either.

Wisconsin is one of the top rated states for autism therapy. I'm in California and there are tons of companies out here.

Hi. I'm just back at WP from a long hiatus after my first go didn't work out as well as I'd have hoped.

Learning Disabilities. Many parents don't recognise that quite a few ASD folks have dyslexia and/or dyscalculia. My son has the former and I have the latter. These issues can cause HUGE anxieties when it comes to academics and having to perform in school. Nothing sets off a meltdown more than feeling like you're an idiot because you can't do what everyone else is capable of doing. Meltdowns have a cycle. They usually start with anxiety. Having someone 'safe' that we can really talk to about what we're anxious about helps. Being forced into working our brains in a way they won't work only makes it worse. These two things may be worth looking into when it comes to our children and school.

Spelling. Sequential Spelling is a brilliant program. My dyslexic ASD kid was correctly spelling words like "uninstalling" within three weeks of using this program, at age seven. It's an ebook, very affordable and nothing has built his confidence in reading and spelling like this has. It's put out by AVKO who specialise in dyslexia. http://www.avko.org/sequentialspelling.html I have friends with grade five kids who started on level one. We started on level one when my son was in grade two. If your son wants a magical way to be a better speller by just writing 25 words a day, I highly recommend it.

Please be careful with medications, folks. Psychiatrists want to fix us all. That is their job. Sometimes we don't need that kind of fixing. I am not against medications in extreme situations but my own very personal experiences with the above (and others) as an adult has left me quite reluctant. Combine this with the standard protocol requiring "normalisation" of our ASD "behaviors" to fit into the NT box and it's oftentimes upsetting. Sometimes we just need another way of doing things. My way of helping my son was to remove him from the school system because he doesn't need to be "normalised", he needs one on one assistance in order to develop his academic skills in a way that will enable him to have a choice to achieve in his life.

We have created new languages (sign language, braille) for folks who can't function in our hearing and seeing world. We build ramps for folks who cannot walk. We medicate, restrain and "normalise" ASD.

Remember meltdowns start somewhere, they don't come "out of nowhere", even if it looks that way to you from outside.

**edited because most already have the answers they want when they ask for advice**

Last edited by ominous on 26 Mar 2011, 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bullet point is good!

I have considered this and, for the most part, ruled it out. I have never noticed him "flipping" letters, or numbers. (even when he was first learning to write them, he didn't seem to have that issue.) He doesn't appear to copy them in the wrong order. I think his issues come more from 1) being overwhelmed with deciding which procedure to use and 2) difficulty with understanding using "groups" of numbers.. like in multiplication and division.
Perhaps there is more to dyslexia and dyscalcula than I am aware. I know that though I am a very avid and proficient reader, I do some weird things sometimes.. Mostly with signs or short phrases.. I don't initially read entire words in the correct order, but often read the last word or half of the phrase before the first. I don't know if that falls into some disorder anywhere... or is just something weird I do. But I catch that what I read makes no sense and read it again correctly. As Ben seems to still need to read out loud, I have not noticed him doing these things.

Ben is doing so much better with spelling with simply just a little more practice... His biggest issues now are things like "ie" or "ei"... and that seems normal to me as I do the same thing. (I am a horrible speller -despite the fact that I often read a novel a day-.. I was taught phonics, and still catch myself spelling "they" t-h-a-y... or "of" o-v.... Thank god for spell check.)

Concerta.... good god.. where to even start? My understanding, which could very well be COMPLETELY flawed, is that the reason my son requires such a high dose is because he metabolizes it so quickly. I have NEVER seen my son in a zombie-like state... He is on the go from the minute he wakes up until the moment he passes out into a complete coma at night. The Concerta enables him to focus on food long enough to finish a meal (AND OMG DOES THAT KID EAT!!) The Concerta allows him to sit for a half hour and play video games, do homework, watch tv, play a board game. Without the Concerta, he can not focus on anything. It would break my heart just trying to talk to him. He would hold his hands to block his peripheral vision and still not be able to focus on me. For years, before medication, the only time he could sit an enjoy a story was in the dark by flashlight, cutting out all other distractions. As much as I am afraid of these drugs, my son can't function without them... and he is miserable in that state.

Concerta doesn't help 100%, but I'm starting to discern which issues are ADHD and which are probably AS and anxiety. I can't wait until summer when we will try a non-stimulant medication for his ADHD. If it works, that will be a huge weight off my shoulders, but if it doesn't.... I will put him back on the stimulant... I see the difference not only in how he deals with everything around him, but how much less stress he has in dealing with every day activities.

I don't do it lightly, and I'm horribly conflicted when it comes to medications.... but I have to look to my child and see what works best for him.

I enjoyed reading this, thanks! Your son sounds like an awesome kid.

He is, thank you!!