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Come June 10, would you vote for a leftwing secularist above a radical right-libertarian to be WP's Most Strident Atheist given that radical right-libertarian policies lead to low levels of atheism?
I would vote for the leftwing secularist! 55%  55%  [ 18 ]
No, I would vote for the religion helping, self-hating atheist right-libertarian. 15%  15%  [ 5 ]
None of the above 30%  30%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 33

Master_Pedant
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23 Mar 2011, 6:22 pm

Come June 10, would you vote for a leftwing secularist above a radical right-libertarian to be WP's Most Strident Atheist given that radical right-libertarian policies lead to low levels of atheism?





This poll is part of the Master_Pedant for Strident Atheist exploratory committee inital drafting session.


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Vexcalibur
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23 Mar 2011, 6:39 pm

I would what?


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marshall
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23 Mar 2011, 6:47 pm

:lol:

Loaded polling FTW. However, to produce the maximum bias you shouldn't have included a "none of the above" option. Make everyone choose. Or is that against the campaign rules?



Wedge
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23 Mar 2011, 7:21 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
given that radical right-libertarian policies lead to low levels of atheism?


I also reached that conclusion. ( http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html ). Sweden that is a country with leftwing economic policies is the country with highest percentage of atheistm. US that has more libertarian policies is down on the list. Also socialist and former socialist countries have a high percentage of atheists.

There is another list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Mar 2011, 7:25 pm

Wedge wrote:
Also socialist and former socialist countries have a high percentage of atheists.

The issue I see with this bit of data is that socialist nations have tended to brainwash against religion.

In any case, I think it is also found that state religion tends to cause higher levels of atheism as well, with the perceived explanation being the reduction in market-driven religion. However, I don't think a strident atheist would be reasonable to support that idea.



Wedge
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23 Mar 2011, 7:43 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Wedge wrote:
Also socialist and former socialist countries have a high percentage of atheists.

The issue I see with this bit of data is that socialist nations have tended to brainwash against religion.


It was part of their fight. In Russia the clergy and the nobility controled huge shares of land while the peasantry died of hunger without any land to grow crops. It was rational that after the revolution that the nobility and clergy were removed of its rights. That is why there is an anti-religious sentiment. The same happened in France.

But in US most right wing policians explore religious sentiments in their campaigns.



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Mar 2011, 7:49 pm

Wedge wrote:
It was part of their fight. In Russia the clergy and the nobility controled huge shares of land while the peasantry died of hunger without any land to grow crops. It was rational that after the revolution that the nobility and clergy were removed of its rights. That is why there is an anti-religious sentiment. The same happened in France.

But in US most right wing policians explore religious sentiments in their campaigns.

Ok, but if we're going back that far, then you are kind of claiming that INEQUALITY led to opposition to religious beliefs, which stands against Master_Pedant's direction. Now, if we look at it again, we probably have to say that religion is at least in part, a complex phenomenon.



PM
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24 Mar 2011, 9:38 pm

OK Master_Pendant, I can not stand by any further without asking for evidence of your accusations against Awesomelyglorious.

What evidence is there of him being a Right-Libertarian? I know he is a Libertarian, but as for a Right-Libertarian, no evidence.

How does he back religion?

How is he self-hating?

Furthermore, are you trying to turn the Strident Atheists into an organization of leftists? Atheism knows no side of the political spectrum. Every atheist is a secularist, but as for strictly left, right, center, or libertarian, no. I voted none of the above because I do not agree with your sentiments on AG. I want answers.


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Awesomelyglorious
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25 Mar 2011, 12:42 am

Umm.... I'll answer for M_P, and say that there is evidence that I believe in a relatively market-oriented framework to run society, even that I have gone to extremes in this belief in the past. This is all that M_P will mean by "right-libertarian". Basically, "right-libertarian" in M_P's framework is anybody who, in the US, would simply be called a libertarian. (I think you are in the US, so you'd just call me a libertarian)

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Furthermore, are you trying to turn the Strident Atheists into an organization of leftists?

Yes, he obviously is. And his rationale is very simple. As a papal agent, he is trying to suppress free thought, herd his enemies into one basic stand, and to reorganize atheism into something more like Catholicism is today so that way atheists will convert to the religion, seeing it as similar to what they already believe.

I take a much more open view on the matter, as instead, I believe that the best way to operate is to have a big enough tent to keep genuine free-thinkers, rather than to oppress them with dogmas like M_P undoubtedly cherishes. M_P, I have two things to tell you: Mary ain't no virgin, and your methods to destroy truth will not work as Catholicism has never been able to suppress the truth.



marshall
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25 Mar 2011, 11:19 am

I think everyone should look into Awesomelyglorious's questionable past here on WP. He dabbled in deism around 2007 when I first joined WP. He even went so far as to defend the "prime mover" argument for the existence of God if memory serves me correct. As of today I haven't seen AG thoroughly distance himself from his past associations with theism. I have not seen him show any remorse or apologize to his fellow strident atheists for his past support of theism. I think all strident anti-theist members of WP need to ask themselves "who is this Awesomelyglorius?". Is he really one of us? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Awesomelyglorious is necessarily insincere in his beliefs, at least not that we know for sure. He may be a fine atheist citizen of WP. I'm just saying there are some questions that need to be asked regarding his anti-theism.



Awesomelyglorious
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25 Mar 2011, 11:33 am

marshall wrote:
I think everyone should look into Awesomelyglorious's questionable past here on WP. He dabbled in deism around 2007 when I first joined WP. He even went so far as to defend the "prime mover" argument for the existence of God if memory serves me correct. As of today I haven't seen AG thoroughly distance himself from his past associations with theism. I have not seen him show any remorse or apologize to his fellow strident atheists for his past support of theism. I think all strident anti-theist members of WP need to ask themselves "who is this Awesomelyglorius?". Is he really one of us? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Awesomelyglorious is necessarily insincere in his beliefs, at least not that we know for sure. He may be a fine atheist citizen of WP. I'm just saying there are some questions that need to be asked regarding his anti-theism.

I think that winning the last contest on strident atheism counts as "thoroughly distancing myself" from theism. I even think that my far-superior in both quantity and quality of anti-theistic writings on WP is also sufficient.

Even further, in what world would exploration of ideas and through examination be to one's disfavor? After all, if M_P is telling the truth on his atheism, then he is young, he is easily impressionable, he has never had to deal with religion on the level that I have. I know the ideas we oppose thoroughly. I know why we oppose them. I know their problems even on a personal level. Can we really trade my depth of knowledge and experience for such naive attitudes? And of course, we have to remember that we CANNOT take M_P at his word as he is clearly a papist and secretly the poster 91.



marshall
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25 Mar 2011, 11:51 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
marshall wrote:
I think everyone should look into Awesomelyglorious's questionable past here on WP. He dabbled in deism around 2007 when I first joined WP. He even went so far as to defend the "prime mover" argument for the existence of God if memory serves me correct. As of today I haven't seen AG thoroughly distance himself from his past associations with theism. I have not seen him show any remorse or apologize to his fellow strident atheists for his past support of theism. I think all strident anti-theist members of WP need to ask themselves "who is this Awesomelyglorius?". Is he really one of us? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Awesomelyglorious is necessarily insincere in his beliefs, at least not that we know for sure. He may be a fine atheist citizen of WP. I'm just saying there are some questions that need to be asked regarding his anti-theism.

I think that winning the last contest on strident atheism counts as "thoroughly distancing myself" from theism. I even think that my far-superior in both quantity and quality of anti-theistic writings on WP is also sufficient.

Even further, in what world would exploration of ideas and through examination be to one's disfavor? After all, if M_P is telling the truth on his atheism, then he is young, he is easily impressionable, he has never had to deal with religion on the level that I have. I know the ideas we oppose thoroughly. I know why we oppose them. I know their problems even on a personal level. Can we really trade my depth of knowledge and experience for such naive attitudes? And of course, we have to remember that we CANNOT take M_P at his word as he is clearly a papist and secretly the poster 91.

Nah. I'm not gonna defend MP either. It is pretty clear to me that both you and MP are phony anti-theists. Powerful theistic interests have been secretly funding both of your campaigns in order to divide the anti-theist movement along partisan economic policy lines. Just admit it. :P



Last edited by marshall on 25 Mar 2011, 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

ikorack
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25 Mar 2011, 11:51 am

Can't a left-wing secularist be theistic? Shouldn't you add atheistic left-wing secularist as an adjective?


EDIT: Not very strident I would say.

Brought to you by the theistic committee for strident atheism criticism.



Last edited by ikorack on 25 Mar 2011, 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

skafather84
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25 Mar 2011, 11:54 am

I'm voting for Inuyasha or Tensu but I'm not sure who yet.


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jmnixon95
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25 Mar 2011, 12:09 pm

I am an atheist, yet not a frequent poster in this subforum; therefore, I am not completely certain what "Strident Atheists" are. Although I can guess by the name, I would rather have someone explain it to me; does anyone mind? I'm thinking about posting in this subforum more often.

Sorry for my stupidity on the subjects of Strident Atheists.