NT wives and AS Husbands

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I agree with you Lene. There does have to be some give and take by both parties in a relationship. I do think all of that should be hashed out, discussed, and talked abou before marriaget. This goes for NT-NT marriage. I think the AS person needs to be upfront and honest with the NT woman he will marry about his AS. I do tell my wife that I do love her all the time and I really do love her. I do go with her to social events. They do tax me though.

What I have been learning is I have to get it off of me. I have to get myself out of the way and make it about her. She is a wonderful woman and she makes the best macaroni and cheese ever. I believe I have been blessed and I believe I do believe I owe others because I have been blessed. Honestly, I believe there is a certain attitude aspies have which may be turning alot of people off. It is called the "what's in it for me" or sense of entitlement attitude. I believe we need to change it from a sense of entitlement to a sense of gratitude. The NT partners keep mentioning that on aspartners at delphi.com. I'm sorry but on this I'm afraid I will have to agree with them. Even kfisherx has mentioned the sense of entitlement.

I am very greatful to the NTs who do come here like azurecrayon, DW_A_MOM, Janissy, and others. They do have busy schedules and they do not have to come here and help us. They are not only getting help with their kids but are taking time to help us as well. We need to be thankful, greatful, and count our luck stars for that.

Frankly, probably fewer meltdowns and shutdowns and a better relationship in the long run, but not much else.

Which are these "Adult responsibilities". I don't see socializing as one, that is imposed. This is not like raising a child, it is recognizing ones respective disabilities and addressing them, that is part of an adult relationship when you are with somebody with disabilities, recognizing their limits.

Who is to say what is and is not an adult relationship, that is very judgmental determination to say that it is someone you have to raise as a child. Nothing I am putting forth is a parent-child relationship. Nothing is breaking a relationship of equals or saying you are to raise this person, on the contrary it is saying you need to be more respective of their limits as somebody with a disability.

In reality in most situations this is selective, and probably closer to what CranialRectosis is putting forth. Everybody has their limits. In many ways I think this is a good example of how a situation would work. His wife respects the time he needs alone to recover, but also when there may be communication issues. It was a really good example because it was reflective of the acceptance and adaptations that often need to be made.

One burden of the person on the spectrum is knowing when to communicate clearly when you are at a limit. I think explaining this through the spoon analogy can be very helpful for NTs as well. It is an analogy used often in the disability community for a reason. It is simple and easy to understand.

But I agree with you, the mistake with many of these women is going into the relationships in the first place thinking things will change over time. In fact that is what makes them a little bit crazy on some level.

With respect to what Boo said, some women are less accepting and accommodating but there are reasons for that, selectiveness is important for a number of reasons. Women have a right to be selective about their partners, but I think the problem is there those select few who are less selective than they should be and think they can change someone. They get into problems. I am not one of them, if I love a guy its because I accept him and I am compatible with him, but then again I am far more selective about who I date and get in a relationship with, which is not unusual these days. The change the man bit is fading, which is all for the better. I think many women are keeping more of an eye out for compatibility rather than rushing into marriage or a long term relationship thinking they can change the guy they are with. So I am not faulting the run a mile comment. I am not saying all of this list applies to everybody.

If you are on the spectrum there better be clear lines of communication with your partner (male or female), and that burden is on the person who is on the spectrum to communicate and discuss the limitations one has. If you cannot properly communicate their issues that is a problem, because NTs are not mind readers and have a very hard time grasping the perspective of somebody on the spectrum. So hiding you are on the spectrum and the issues you have is just plain dishonest.

I also not saying there should be a sense of entitlement. Nobody is entitled to a relationship. But placing unreasonable expectations on somebody with a disability that can be very limiting is also problematic, and you cannot blame the person for those disabilities when the limitations have not ever been fully discussed.

I am not saying I use tons of time alone, or veto every social event that my boyfriend suggests, honestly most of them I go too, but I need an out to express when there is a problem and need to opt out. It is about setting up good lines of communication and a basis for understanding. Understanding that being on the spectrum does mean there is some very real limitations that are there, in the reality this can be a very difficult disability at times (and a downright unpredictable one). But there are really good NT partners (both men and women) out there, who respect there are limitations and can manage what adaptations may need to be in place.

Though I agree with Boo, the NT who may be coming here to complain may be using AS as a scapegoat, when their partner may not be on the spectrum at all. In reality many of their relationships are close to an end point and there are serious communications breakdowns that make re-establishment unlikely.

I just don't like the focus on compromise. In reality it is good communication that is key to a relationship.

hm, no thanks then. That doesn't seem like much of a pay off. I could easily avoid that if I chose not to date someone on the spectrum in the first place.

Surely it's only fair that if one partner makes so many concessions for the sake of the other, they should be allowed ask a few of their own too?

I referred to an adult-child relationship because, in my opinion, that's what a relationship is when only one person is doing all the work to avoid a 'meltdown' from the other. You say you don't believe a relationship should have compromises, yet your above list would appear to consist of nothing but. Just not for the person with aspergers.

I agree that communication is vital; that's why I disagree with your list. That list as you present it isn't an opportunity for communication; it's a set of rules dictated by one partner in a relationship without any input from the other.

Starrygrrl, You're being as intolerable as some of the NTs out there who demand we fully adjust to them without NTs making any concessions whatsoever. You are doing the exact same thing. Lene is correct on this. A relationship is a two street. What some of the AS husbands are inadvertently doing is attempting to make a metaphorical statue of themselves. Some NT wives are attempting to do the same thing with their AS husbands. Some people are trying to do a pygmalion on each other if you understand the symbolism to this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_(mythology)

By the way, you're trying to present your opinions as facts. They are not facts. They are your opinions from your perceptions and point of view.

I do agree that good communication is a key to a good relationship. I actually agree with some of your opinions but like Lene said there has to be something we give back to our NT partners. In some cases we may have to just grin and bare our sensory and social difficulties to go to certain events like a funeral. I would go to a funeral to comfort my wife if one of her loved ones died on her side. If we can't truly make any concessions whatsoever then we probably should not date or be with them.

I honestly find it hard to believe how someone can be unable to pick up after themselves. I don't see how someone is unable to take their dirty clothes out of the bathroom when they are done with it and put it in their bedroom. I do not see how someone cannot bring a dirty cup to the kitchen to the sink. If they forget, remind them. If they are caring people, they will do it when you tell them too so they won't forget again. After all there is a thread here in the adult section asking if you need to be nagged to do stuff and I am one of them. My dad is one of them too because he has ADHD so he forgets so you have to nag him. I just ask him if he did X and then I call him again later and ask if he did it yet. He does good doing it NOW so he won't forget. It's annoying but hey, that's why I need to remind him or to make sure he did it.

My office clerk at my old job hated having to remind me, even when I wrote it down, I still forgot because it wouldn't register in my brain to look at my note pad to remind myself. I needed reminders from him and I would do it NOW so I wouldn't forget again. I guess it was uncommon to forget because he couldn't understand I need reminders and I forget to look at my notepad, I am very prone to that. It was like talking to a brick wall when I would explain myself because he kept getting mad at me for forgetting.

And Cube is correct on sensory issues because I cannot stand hairy skin rubbing against my bare legs. I cannot stand the feeling of sticky skin, even it's torture to feel it on my son when he sweats so I use a prefold to put it between his head and my arm so I can't feel his sweaty head. So if my husband wants to make love, he doesn't mind wear a shirt and having pants between our legs so I won't feel his skin. But my first ex expected me to get used to it and back then, I never thought of this stuff. I never thought of getting huge fans and having them blow on us so I wouldn't feel hot and we wouldn't sweat because it get over 90 degrees out outside and my house get hot. My husband thought of the fan idea and he would have them blow on us during it. But hey even with fans, they blow hot hair when it's way too hot so maybe they wouldn't have worked in Montana. It gets so hot there like California does. Plus my home had poor insulation because it was a 1910 house and the windows were old, original. Plus it was humid out. If someone has to wear ear plugs in public, so be it. I think the partner should allow it even if he or she thinks it looks silly. But better than a meltdown and at least he is with her and the woman is getting what she wants, him going out with her where there be people and too much noise her partner can't handle. But I would say they wouldn't have to go to all places with their partner like to dance clubs or to concerts or sport games because the noise and people is too much. Funerals aren't loud. There are people yes but it's not noisy because everyone is quiet and it's not a place to be all happy and excited. Everyone is there to mourn and cry and talk about their best memories about the person and the times when he or she was alive. There is a crowd yes but you can stand away from everyone or have them stand away from you. And not everyone has funerals anyway when they die.

My husband hates crowds and social gatherings so I don't make him go. But sometimes he will go for me. He will attends my AS potlucks but last time he didn't because we had a baby and I think he used our son as an excuse so he wouldn't go and he said he would prefer to watch him than having one of my relatives use up their time to watch him. Roger Meyers thought it was best I didn't bring him because of sensory issues some people on the spectrum have so he was probably concerned what if he started crying. It might upset some people there. I would have taken him downstairs or away from everyone if it bothered anyone. I didn't even think of telling him I would just take him out of the area. But I didn't bring him so husband decided he would just stay home and watch him. I didn't care and I went by myself. Maybe I can bring him for the August potluck. I don't like social gatherings either but I go for him like to a birthday party or to his family's when he wants to visit and that way they can see their new family member (our son). I just bring what I like to keep me company.

You're a goddess! Or a god-send (which ever you prefer). Make sure not to burn yourself out. xD

The list itself is not some hard rule. It is a list of questions to ask, not a list of hard rules. The reality is while for some like cubedemon that the normal functions of everyday life is something they can bare. But the reality is for many people on the spectrum there are certian elements which are positively disabling. This is male or female. I did not come up with this list overnight, it was a result of a 2 1/2 year relationship with my boyfriend and knowing myself better and us finding out what worked best for us, and what did not.

The truth is this may be why things work out for us women on the spectrum. Boo is somewhat correct in suggesting that guys tend to be more accomidating with regards to social matters and follow the lead of the woman. This is a gender construct, that benefits women on the spectrum, and I am no exception. These are not a hard and fast list of questions, for different people it will be different things. But the entire point in facing these questions is understanding the parts for a person which really are disabling and not especially open to compromise, and finding out the parts which are more of a prefrence. For some people the disability portion is more severe than others, and it is not readily apparent. Somebody with sensory issues for example. From what it sounds like neither Lene nor Cubedragon has to deal with these issues. But for me, Steps husband, and League Girl do. League girl it is primary the sense of touch, with me I have synthesia sound -> color and very sensative hearing and my brain processes sound differently as a result, I also have slow visual processing which makes reading body language very difficult, and certian scents such as perfumes trigger migranes. I have to make adaptations in my life that are not a matter of compromise just to manage the sensory issues.

That is what I am saying the NT expectations for things a person on the spectrum cannot change being a matter of compromise is often a false diachotomy to suggest that it can be, in fact that is ableist. The NTs are not the one with the disability which can at times be severely limiting for some people on the spectrum. Loving a disabled person requires adaptations, sometimes these are little changes, sometimes they are big ones.

I am may be speaking from the perspective of a woman on the spectrum though, and what I write is not meant to be absolute, so I am sorry they came off that way. I do have my perspective though. There are the things that have worked for me and my boyfriend, that have colored my opinion. They were adaptations that improved our relationship in time. It probably helped that my boyfriend previous ex had a disability, Cerebral palsy, so he may have been more aware of what it meant to be in a relationship with somebody with a disability.

There is elements to AS that are disabling to a person, meaning they cause great anguish or stress. These are going to be different for everybody though, some more severe than others, some less.

To me it seems Step has been in a relationship for many years with somebody who may very well have a more severe form of AS. That is not going to be the case with everybody, these situations are dynamic. But the key is to recognize what is a disability and adapting to it without expecting compromise. The truth is people on the spectrum can have very real limits that are disabling, and expecting them to compromise outside of those limits can potentially be problematic. This is not making an ultimatum necessarily.

So yes cubedragon while you can adapt and compromise on a pretty high level, not everybody can. Some on this board have more limitations and more factors, such as severe sensory issues, which can be disabling that they cannot compromise on certian levels. Things cannot always a two way street with a disability, for some people they can be but for others they are not. Cubedragon you are very lucky in some ways. Because in a relationship context, this is where being on the spectrum is a disability, because they are not working with the same ability as NT. Being with somebody with a disability is a different construct, I am saying this as both a girl who has been with disabled partners, but as somebody managing thier own issues.

Last edited by starygrrl on 25 Mar 2011, 2:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Not only the social matters, but the overall flaws and quirks too, let's tale the self-esteem for instance, guys are more tolerant toward the low esteem in their partners than girls do , same for other quirks and flaws like social awkwardness , laziness, dependency , unemployment ,not being able to drive , physical weakness , wrong habits...etc.

Weight is the only "flaw" I can think about that it's an exception to the rule.

I am very lucky my sensory issues are mild and not so severe. Some people are extreme it disables them while I don't get disabled by mine. My mother said they impaired me as a kid because it also effected how I processed things despite they were mild then too. But they got better she said I outgrew SPD. I used to jump when I get touched from behind but not anymore, it be rare now. But I am sure everyone jumps when they weren't expecting it while people on the spectrum do it often.

There is a word for extreme sensory issues but I forget what it's called. It's something to do with sight.

Starrygrrl, I know and understand what you are saying and I wish there was a solution to all of this. Starrygrrl, this is very personal to me and please understand why I'm on a rant about this. The thing is in my opinion I believe I destroyed my mother. Because of my problems as a child and the fact that she did not know how to deal with them she ended up in the hospital when I was at the age of 13. She almost had a heart attack. My mom used to be a lively and cheerful person until she had to deal with more and more of my problems. My mother truly thinks I hate her but I do not. I love my mom. I think I may be slowly destroying my wife as well.

The thing is my relationship with my mother has deeply affected me to my inner soul. I believe I have developed a messianic complex in the process. I must save humanity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_complex). If I can save humanity from its own destruction, predjudices and biases and have everyone person on the earth provided with what they need then I offer that as a gift to my mother and my wife as well.

While I agree that the argument goes both ways, it's usually not the husbands who are coming on here for help with their relationships. When they do, we...or I, usually give them suggestions on how they can work to improve their relationships from their end, but when it's just the wife who comes on here, we can only address things with respect to her end of the relationship.

Starrygrrl and others this is one thing I would want. When it comes to food I need to know how much to save after each meal or when it comes to bag of chips I need to know how much of the chips I should save for my wife and how much I should save for myself. My wife gave me this formula and I've already discussed this with League girl but I want to reiterate it again to you starrygrrl. My wife said save as much for her as much I would want to have.

What if I wanted all of it? Do I give her all of it?? I do eat alot. What if I wanted none of it? Do I save none for her and keep all to myself? Do I throw it away? What if I wanted 1% of it? Do I save her only 1%? What if I only wanted a crumb of it? Do I just save her a crumb? What do I do here? What is the correct interpretation to this formula that she gave here?

I always told to consider her feelings? How do I do that? What is the algorithm to this? I suggested we just split up things like chips and put them into contains. We could put half in one container and put the other half in one container. If either of us wants to share our containers of food with each other we can. My wife does not want to do that because she wants me to consider her feelings. She says she wants to have the opportunity to choose as well. In my opinion, I thought my solution satisfied her criteria. I really want to learn how to consider her feelings. League_Girl, said my solution was an excellent solution. Do you think so as well Starrygrrl? Does anyone else? Where did I go wrong in my thinking?

Rather than thinking of it as a matter of feelings, or a quantitative reasoning issue, think of it as a qualitative reasoning issue. This might seem like a benign issue, but from an evolutionary standpoint, it was important for a man to properly estimate the amount of resources to take for himself, and safe for his family. Likewise, a wife had to know how to figure this out as well.

Most people navigate this in a two person situation by assuming the other person would like half, and testing that hypothesis by asking. When it is something like the last piece of cake, or cookie, or eggroll, it's generally proper to ask the other person if they wanted it by using the past tense "Did you want this..." or "were you going to eat this," to clarify that you are asking if they had any plans to eat it, as opposed to using present tense "Do you want..." which might imply that you are offering it to them.

If it turns out that they did plan on eating it, and you also want it, you might ask if you can have some (less than half) or half, but generally speaking, you should allow them to have it.

Thanks Chronos. This is an excellent answer. I would've never considered it from an evolutionary standpoint. There is something I still do not understand. Why did my wife get irritated with me for suggesting that I put this system of dividing up the food into two different containers? Do you have a theory here?

She was likely just upset that you did not have the ability to "read" her due to the evolutionary implications of it. Women generally want to have as close to a telepathic connection with a man as the laws of physics allow, and in light of the fact that telepathy is not possible among humans, when women perceive their mate is not quite on the same page as them, it unsettles them.