what to do about Israel?

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i know its a touchy subject but Israel has been heavy on my mind as of late. I think the jews should have their own piece of dirt but I also hate what they are doing to the palestinians. I have quite a few christian friends who tell me I should'nt "get in the way of gods chosen people" which agitates me even more because much as I respect peoples rights to believe what they do , I dont believe that anyone has the right to use those beliefs to condone violence and oppression against other people. We all know that religion has been used as an excuse for genocide over and over throughout history...mainly rich white people killing off the incovienient brown people that are on "their" land that they "found" and was "gifted to them by god".

If you read the old testament about how The jews got Israel in the first place they essentially killed off the people ie the cannanites who were living on it. But you can't argue with religious people because they tend to be very inflexable about things. So yeah I get labelled an antisemite a lot because I don't support whats going on in Israel..even though i respect jews rights to be jews and practice their faith. catch-22 folks?>

If the Palestinians chose to be peaceful, the Jews would have had the parcel of land which they purchased from the Ottoman Empire in the late 19th century. There would have been no State of Israel, just the Jewish Agency which operated the parcel of land acquired for cash from the Turkish Empire. But no! The Palestinians would not have Jews in the neighborhood and thus the wars began which (surprise!) the Jews won. So the Palestinians have brought down upon their own heads the troubles they have.

ruveyn

thats total BS. The palenstinians lived in peace with the jews who lived there for centurys upon centurys. It was'nt until the birth of zionism and the state of Israel that there started to be violence between the two groups.

If they had any sense, they'd just move to America. Jewish people have the opportunity to prosper here in peace.

969 Jews aboard the St. Louis tried to do exactly that. They were turned away and sent back to Europe.

ruveyn

I don't see why we have to do anything. Let Israel and the Arabs settle it themselves.

In a different time.

I would spell it Israel.
just kidding
they are a state like any other founded in blood theirs and other peoples.
nothing special at all.

Here is more "total bullsh*t":
Prior to 1940-45
Up until World War II, violence in Palestine was sporadic, and intensified in relation to increased Jewish immigration as part of the Zionist movement, which sought to create a Jewish state in the rightful land of the Arab population living in Palestine. At the time, it had an overwhelmingly Arab population, however some cities, most notably Jerusalem, had a Jewish minority(see also Demographics of Jerusalem).

Jews began to occupy and settle in what was then part of the Ottoman Empire, which includes the modern day Gaza Strip, Jordan, Israel, and West Bank. They bought land for farming.

After 1917 and the Balfour Declaration, Arabs became concerned at the British support and influx of Jews, whose policy was to buy land, occupy and then immigrate to what was then the British Mandate of Palestine. Initial violence was small and localised, such matters as new land purchases, or synagogue locations. After the 1920 Palestine riots, the Jewish community (Yishuv) set up its own defence irregulars, Haganah, and intelligence operation. The aim at this time was to gain foreknowledge of future attacks and be able to protect the Yishuv against such attacks.

Violence escalated in 1929 after confrontations between Jews and Arabs over control of the Western Wall, of the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism and third holiest in Islam. After many Arabs had been killed in one such confrontation, Arab riots broke out across Palestine. A total of 133 Jews and 116 Arabs were killed during the unrest (the latter mostly by the British authorities).

The years 1930-1935 were marked by activities of the Black Hand Islamist militant organization led by Izz ad-Din al-Qassam who was killed by the British in 1935.

In 1936-1939, the Arabs - led by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini - launched the Great Arab Revolt, a campaign to reclaim their land - which lead to hundreds of casualties and ended after the British officers deported Husseini and brutally hanged and killed many rioters. While mainstream Zionism, represented by Vaad Leumi and the Haganah, practised the policy of Havlagah (restraint), Irgun chose to aggressively retaliate, furthering chaos in the region.

ruveyn

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Like I said a country built by blood and force do Different than any other.

the golden time of that our young friend is pining for was previous to the fall of the ottoman empire.
the conflict between jews and muslims is old but not hundreds of years old and it relates to Palestinian.

on this every one can agree. <although some won't>

I don't see why the Israelis have to move, they have possession of the land, and have defended their borders successfully (on the very first day they became a country I might add). Israel took away the lands that the Arab countries took from the Palestinians in later wars and used it as a buffer zone.

The Israeli People's Claim on the land dates all the way back to the Old Testament. Jerusalem is their holy city, I don't see the Israelis should have to give it up any more than I would expect muslims to give up Mecca.

As heylelshalem wrote, many of his Christian friends told him he shouldn't question God's chosen people. This tells me they're very probably of the evangelical persuasion, with all the end time theology, and Christ's thousand year reign in Jerusalem. Having an established kingdom of Israel for Christ to rule from is indeed the lynchpin for this whole doctrine. Were it not for this belief system, I have to wonder how many of those evangelicals would actually give a s**t about Israel or Jews?
And by the way, my pastor had taken a trip to Israel and Jordan a few years ago. And his perception was, while the Palestinian people were very decent and amiable on a personal basis, it's Palestinian extremists who in the end are keeping any and all conflict alive, not the Israelis, most of whom only want peace.
That, and that Israel is a magnet for evangelical crackpots obsessed with the end of the world.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

they seem want it to be a bibleland theme park and a zoo for Jews.
"don't mind if they are big just don't what them close"
the settlers movement is largely funded by the american xtian right.
I think what we have in Israel is a proxy struggle between american xtians (with Settler pawns)
and Iran (with Palestinian pawns).
I think most israelis and palestinians want it to end with a 2 state solution.
the settler route leads to a one state solution that the muslims ultimately win (though fertility)
this is not the intention of the american Xian right ,but they are idiots so intention does not predict outcome.

I find the whole Israel/Palestinian thing very confusing. Someone up thread, and I've heard this before from other sources, said that the Jews bought up land and then occupied this land. I don't mean to be stupid, I'm genuinely trying to understand. Is this right? They occupied land that they had bought? In other words, they were living on their own land?

If so, what claim does anyone else have to that land? I bought land in a foreign country and now occupy it. It's my land. The people who were in this area before me have no right what so ever to my bit. I don't understand.

Spell the name right, it's Israel. Oh, and how about providing journalist coverage for the aggressive acts of all those militias which keep popping up, and nations around Israel in general, in the same manner that they have constantly been attempting to portray any defensive measures that Israel takes.

As someone who has spent some time in Israel and have studied the history of the region, I will explain it to you. Prior to the State of Israels existense, Jews had to buy the land through the Jewish National Fund office in Jaffe. They bought the land at the exoribant prices from Landlords...the only issue was the tenant farmers who cultivated the land for the landlord had no say under Ottoman and later British law in the matter. The real blame if they want to cry about it 60 + years later belongs on the Arabs themselves who sold out their fellow arabs through land deals. The reality was that Jews bought the land legally and didn't just arrive and kick everyone out. Thats a myth. Now, when the Partition plan was rejected by the Arabs in 1948, their was a war..which nullified the borders of the Partition plan. Israel won the war, and as such it won the spoils of war. Many Arabs either fled, some were kicked out, As many Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews were ultimately thrown out of Arab countries...That is a part of the story rarely mentioned. It was a population transfer of sorts. Like what happened between Greece/Turkey, India/Pakistan, and Germany/Eastern Europe, after the war.