Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

How to peacefully disband The Illegimate State of Israel

Page 10 of 12 [ 189 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

18 Apr 2011, 7:48 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:
Like it or not we are stuck with the existence of 'Israel'

I think it is more appropriate to ask, 'how do we eliminate Zionist bigotry from their thinking and convince them to chill out with their neighbours?'

The situation is a little like Northern Ireland/Ulster in that you have an abused and disenfranchised indigenous people forced to live alongside a 'plantation' population of a different religous persuasion who are entirely predjudiced against them.

Just as vast numbers of palestinians would like to peacfully get on with their lives with some level of adjustment to this 'new' situation I am told their are similar numbers of Israeli Jews who feel the same [I am however yet to meet one, normally they come across as racist neo fascists].
The key problems blocking progress are
1/ the zionist agenda.
2/ entrenched mutual hatreds and resentment.
3/ the ongoing expansion of 'settlements'
4/ the creation of the 'Gaza Ghetto'
5/ the treatment of Palestinians with regard justice issues by the Israeli state

There are more but the Palestinians I have spoken to would see the focus on these as paramount.
Big problems, no simple solutions....

peace j


Not to get off the main subject, but the Protestants who settled among the Irish Catholics were often the victims of violent bigotry, simply because they were English or Scottish Protestants. That's not to mention the native Irish who were of the Protestant persuasion. As a matter of fact, it's only in Northern Ireland where you had a sectarian division in the rebellion against English rule - the Republican rebels of the Irish Republic very often consisted of both Catholics and Protestants.
Back to the point - no, it absolutely should not be forgotten that there's two sides to every story. The grinding poverty, despair, and discrimination that Palestinians have to live with everyday should not be forgotten. And in my honest opinion, if you destroy the family home of a terrorist, the only thing you're going to produce are more terrorists.
Just the same, Israel has shown patience beyond the point of sanity for showing restraint when virtually anyone else would simply go in with guns blazing.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

18 Apr 2011, 9:15 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:
I think it is more appropriate to ask, 'how do we eliminate Zionist bigotry from their thinking and convince them to chill out with their neighbours?'

Convince their neighbors to stop starting crap they can't finish anyway.

RedHanrahan wrote:
Just as vast numbers of palestinians would like to peacfully get on with their lives with some level of adjustment to this 'new' situation I am told their are similar numbers of Israeli Jews who feel the same [I am however yet to meet one, normally they come across as racist neo fascists].

Well forgive them for having a grudge against a group of people that are trying to eventually wipe them out.

RedHanrahan wrote:
The key problems blocking progress are
1/ the zionist agenda.

The Jews need an ethnic homeland somewhere.

RedHanrahan wrote:
4/ the creation of the 'Gaza Ghetto'
Quote:
Any time the Israelis try to be nice to the Palestinians and lighten up their restrictions on them (especially in Gaza), the Palestinians use that act of good faith to stock up on weapons and supplies to wage another terrorist campaign. Therefore, in order for Israel to defend it's borders, it either has to seal off Gaza and leave it to rot or just clean the place out completely Exodus style once and for all.
RedHanrahan wrote:
5/ the treatment of Palestinians with regard justice issues by the Israeli state

It's not practical tying the courts up by giving the Palestinians habeaus corpus and access to civil courts for all the stupid crap they pull. That's what airstrikes are for. :D

RedHanrahan wrote:
There are more but the Palestinians I have spoken to would see the focus on these as paramount.
Big problems, no simple solutions....

The problem is the Palestinians, so the solution is simple...if they wanted it to be.


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

19 Apr 2011, 4:51 am

RedHanrahan wrote:
Like it or not we are stuck with the existence of 'Israel'

I think it is more appropriate to ask, 'how do we eliminate Zionist bigotry from their thinking and convince them to chill out with their neighbours?'



Convince the neighbors to stop the violent acts they do. Very simple.

ruveyn



RedHanrahan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2007
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,204
Location: Aotearoa/New Zealand

19 Apr 2011, 7:40 pm

Who invaded whose homeland? - European Zionists invaded Palestine with the assistance of other Europeans.

Israel tolerant? - My arse...

Right wing muppets abound..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

peace j


_________________
Just because we can does not mean we should.

What vision is left? And is anyone asking?

Have a great day!


John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

19 Apr 2011, 7:51 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:
Who invaded whose homeland? - European Zionists invaded Palestine with the assistance of other Europeans.

Israel tolerant? - My arse...

Right wing muppets abound..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

peace j

England conquered Palestine from the Ottomans so it was theirs, and they gave it to who they wanted, since it was theirs. Since England gave it to Israel and gave it up, now it is Israel's.


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

19 Apr 2011, 8:06 pm

John_Browning wrote:
RedHanrahan wrote:
Who invaded whose homeland? - European Zionists invaded Palestine with the assistance of other Europeans.

Israel tolerant? - My arse...

Right wing muppets abound..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

peace j

England conquered Palestine from the Ottomans so it was theirs, and they gave it to who they wanted, since it was theirs. Since England gave it to Israel and gave it up, now it is Israel's.


Prior to the Great War the Jewish Agency purchased an area of Palestine from the (then) ruling Ottoman Empire for gold. In short, there was a land purchase. Had the U.N. Partition been accepted by the non-Jewish inhabitants of the former Palestine Mandate, this area, legally purchased would have been the Jewish State. But since the non-Jews would not have a Jewish entity in their midst, war erupted, the non-Jewish players lost and the rest is history. Israel acquired additional land by winning wars waged against them. In short, they won the land fair and square. By beating their opposition in wars they had to fight defensively. The 1967 war was a pre-emptive attack to thwart a larger move made jointly by Jordan and Egypt. The 1973 again was started by Egypt, and the Egyptians lost again. During that war Syria tried to regain the Golan Heights. Oops. they lost again.

When are these people going to learn? Don't f*ck with the Jews.

ruveyn



John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

19 Apr 2011, 8:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Prior to the Great War the Jewish Agency purchased an area of Palestine from the (then) ruling Ottoman Empire for gold. In short, there was a land purchase. Had the U.N. Partition been accepted by the non-Jewish inhabitants of the former Palestine Mandate, this area, legally purchased would have been the Jewish State. But since the non-Jews would not have a Jewish entity in their midst, war erupted, the non-Jewish players lost and the rest is history. Israel acquired additional land by winning wars waged against them. In short, they won the land fair and square. By beating their opposition in wars they had to fight defensively. The 1967 war was a pre-emptive attack to thwart a larger move made jointly by Jordan and Egypt. The 1973 again was started by Egypt, and the Egyptians lost again. During that war Syria tried to regain the Golan Heights. Oops. they lost again.

When are these people going to learn? Don't f*ck with the Jews.

ruveyn

The arabs seem to be such slow learners when it comes to foreign policy that they will probably keep picking fights until the Israelis control the west bank of the Euphrates, any anything much east of that will just consist of glass craters that glow in the dark. :P


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


xenon13
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,638

19 Apr 2011, 9:03 pm

Do like South Africa. Hold an election for the whole territory under Israeli rule and elect a new parliament that will change the basic law. End the racist regime.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

19 Apr 2011, 9:09 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Do like South Africa. Hold an election for the whole territory under Israeli rule and elect a new parliament that will change the basic law. End the racist regime.


Black South Africans and those of mixed race generally wanted to live in peace with the whites - I don't think there was any talk of ever driving white people into the sea. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for many of the Palestinian extremists.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



imbatshitcrazy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,492

19 Apr 2011, 9:49 pm

i love how the OP just chickened out



John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

19 Apr 2011, 10:15 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Do like South Africa. Hold an election for the whole territory under Israeli rule and elect a new parliament that will change the basic law. End the racist regime.

South Africa was better off under the apartheid government. It has gone into a flaming power dive towards another stereotypical 3rd world African dump under the rule of the ANC.

Israelis wouldn't go for that because it would allow for polices that would allow for them to eventually be overrun by terrorists.


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

19 Apr 2011, 11:41 pm

John_Browning wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Do like South Africa. Hold an election for the whole territory under Israeli rule and elect a new parliament that will change the basic law. End the racist regime.

South Africa was better off under the apartheid government. It has gone into a flaming power dive towards another stereotypical 3rd world African dump under the rule of the ANC.

Israelis wouldn't go for that because it would allow for polices that would allow for them to eventually be overrun by terrorists.


I'm sure if you were a Black South African, you wouldn't be complaining about the end of Apartheid.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Chronos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,698

20 Apr 2011, 2:39 am

I would like to point out a few things.

1. None of your opinions on this issue matters.
2. Any innocence of either side in the matter was lost a long time ago.
3. It's unlikely there will be a resolution to this in the near future or anyone's lifetime for that matter, without divine intervention or the whole region just gets blown off the map.
4. No matter your view on Israel and their actions, the most optimal path for the Palestinians would actually be to completely submit to Israel and petition for their territories to become part of it. It's not going to happen, but that would probably result in the highest possible standard of living for them.
5. Aside from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israel also has a lot of internal conflict and social issues which threaten the stability of the country.
6. Again, none of your opinions, mine included, matters.



John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

20 Apr 2011, 2:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Do like South Africa. Hold an election for the whole territory under Israeli rule and elect a new parliament that will change the basic law. End the racist regime.

South Africa was better off under the apartheid government. It has gone into a flaming power dive towards another stereotypical 3rd world African dump under the rule of the ANC.

Israelis wouldn't go for that because it would allow for polices that would allow for them to eventually be overrun by terrorists.


I'm sure if you were a Black South African, you wouldn't be complaining about the end of Apartheid.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Let's see, if I was a black South African, I would be half as likely to find a job than I would have been under apartheid, the slums are more crowded, the health conditions are worse than they were, cities that used to be tourist attractions are now even dangerous in the daytime, they have become a world leader in homicide, and despite going from having gun laws similar to the US and allowed concealed carry (it used to be pretty safe there then) to gun laws similar to Australia, they now lead the world in violent firearm offenses- frequently using weapons that have never been legal there under either government. South Africa under the ANC rule is a failed state, so if I was black, I would still favor the apartheid government because for all their faults, at least they posses the competency to maintain order.


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


Bethie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,817
Location: My World, Highview, Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, Local Group, Local Supercluster

20 Apr 2011, 4:44 am

Chronos wrote:
I would like to point out a few things.

1. None of your opinions on this issue matters.


:lol:


_________________
For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay.


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

20 Apr 2011, 6:42 am

John_Browning wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Do like South Africa. Hold an election for the whole territory under Israeli rule and elect a new parliament that will change the basic law. End the racist regime.

South Africa was better off under the apartheid government. It has gone into a flaming power dive towards another stereotypical 3rd world African dump under the rule of the ANC.

Israelis wouldn't go for that because it would allow for polices that would allow for them to eventually be overrun by terrorists.


I'm sure if you were a Black South African, you wouldn't be complaining about the end of Apartheid.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Let's see, if I was a black South African, I would be half as likely to find a job than I would have been under apartheid, the slums are more crowded, the health conditions are worse than they were, cities that used to be tourist attractions are now even dangerous in the daytime, they have become a world leader in homicide, and despite going from having gun laws similar to the US and allowed concealed carry (it used to be pretty safe there then) to gun laws similar to Australia, they now lead the world in violent firearm offenses- frequently using weapons that have never been legal there under either government. South Africa under the ANC rule is a failed state, so if I was black, I would still favor the apartheid government because for all their faults, at least they posses the competency to maintain order.


Say what you will, I still somehow doubt that any black South Africans would want to go back to Apartheid.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer