Do guys think they'd be better off as woman with AS?

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biostructure
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18 Apr 2011, 2:47 am

I often do think that I would find life easier as a woman than as a man in many ways. Particularly surrounding sex--the majority of women can do virtually whatever kind of experimentation they want in this regard, and often even with quite attractive guys. The idea of a "pervert" practically doesn't exist for women. Yes, there's the whole slut thing, but I think I'd be socially isolated enough that I would bare even be aware of, much less care about, such a thing. This of course is assuming that I truly were the same person in terms of emotions, including whatever genetic mutations (if any) would be required to decouple sexual psychology from body parts. What Hale Bopp brings up is a different question, one that couldn't be answered unless I knew exactly how being in a different body would (or wouldn't) affect my needs.

I do wonder often, though, how much harder it would be as a woman to be looked up to for being talented and creative without being able to emotionally connect with others.



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18 Apr 2011, 4:46 am

SadAspy wrote:
Starlight-Supernova wrote:
SadAspy wrote:
Yeah, I think dating at least would be way easier as an Aspy woman. Being shy or socially awkward or being unemployed/underemployed and living with your parents doesn't hurt women's chances with men, but it does the reverse.


Well...I guess that's a fair point....woman being judgemental on a guy who lives at home vs a man being judgemental on a woman who lives at home is certainly an interesting one...but if I was an independant guy who didn;t live at home and I dated a girl who was....in a way I'd understand how the opposite situation feels...but then again, doesn't a girl want a guy who is socially and financially independant?


Women highly value a guy's social status. which includes financial independence, yes, but also social skills. Women don't want shy or socially awkward guys.

By contrast, men really don't care about a woman's social status. They really just care about looks. I'm a guy and I admit it!

It's debatable which one is actually more superficial.


Generalisation! I don't really mind how a woman looks. If I like her personality then usually I'll start to find her beautiful even if she doesn't fit into society's usual idea of attractiveness. Similarly no matter how much my peers drool over a woman's looks if I dislike her personality then I will find her physically replusive.



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18 Apr 2011, 7:41 am

Whoops, my whiny virgin comment actually belongs here.

I wouldn't want to be a dude whether he has aspergers or not. But not because it's "harder" but because I don't give a crap about cars and trains, sport, and im really not inerested in dating women. :wink:



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18 Apr 2011, 9:29 am

hale_bopp wrote:
I wouldn't want to be a dude whether he has aspergers or not. But not because it's "harder" but because I don't give a crap about cars and trains, sport, and im really not inerested in dating women.


Well that's okay because as you said earlier...
Quote:
Wow, if you were a different gender, you'd be a completely different person. Guess what.. now that you're female, its possible you no longer want all that casual sex that you changed gender for!

Different hormones. Different organs. Different person.

This argument is just stupid.


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18 Apr 2011, 9:50 am

SadAspy wrote:
Women highly value a guy's social status. which includes financial independence, yes, but also social skills. Women don't want shy or socially awkward guys.

By contrast, men really don't care about a woman's social status. They really just care about looks. I'm a guy and I admit it!

It's debatable which one is actually more superficial.


Sounds like we are exploiting shallowness in each gender now which I hope wouldn't be discussed...

I would admit I'd like a "pretty" girl, but I admit I am picky...like...a girl that looks "gorgeous" to other guys may not appeal to me...some girls, for example that are models I actually don't tend to like...they have really strong cheekbone structures, which I don't like as much about them (I wouldn't say that they are unattractive though, just not my type of woman)...

A girl who has values and has inperfect yet attractive features I will more likely go for myself....and yes I would like her to be financially independant as well as socially but if I love her I wouldn't care about that...and I hope the girl felt the same way about me...if she loved me for who I am, should she care about my weaknesses unless it causes her problems?


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18 Apr 2011, 10:13 am

this is getting me thinking about how many AS women think they would be better off as a man? when i was younger i wished i was a man, and i used to really think my life would have been easier if that had been the case. i'm not going to go into it here, but i was bullied quite badly by other girls (and boys but to a lesser degree), to the extent that administration had to get involved and i had to switch schools in grade 9.

also, it is not really socially acceptable for a female to be sexually aggressive. i have scared the pants off (see what i did there?) more than one guy because of my tendency to be extremely "forward". not all guys find that to be an attractive quality. really, a lot of them don't.

i have mostly female friends, but i identify quite a lot with how some men stereotypically are expected to approach life - i am ambitious, analytical, outspoken, and very assertive (in some ways). these are qualities that are still not as socially acceptable for women.



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18 Apr 2011, 11:14 am

hyperlexian wrote:
this is getting me thinking about how many AS women think they would be better off as a man? when i was younger i wished i was a man, and i used to really think my life would have been easier if that had been the case. i'm not going to go into it here, but i was bullied quite badly by other girls (and boys but to a lesser degree), to the extent that administration had to get involved and i had to switch schools in grade 9.

also, it is not really socially acceptable for a female to be sexually aggressive. i have scared the pants off (see what i did there?) more than one guy because of my tendency to be extremely "forward". not all guys find that to be an attractive quality. really, a lot of them don't.

i have mostly female friends, but i identify quite a lot with how some men stereotypically are expected to approach life - i am ambitious, analytical, outspoken, and very assertive (in some ways). these are qualities that are still not as socially acceptable for women.


You bring up a very interesting point. No offence, but it sounds as though you have a masculine personality (for a woman, anyway). In which case, you're bound to struggle, to some degree, living up to the expectation of being feminine. A 'girlie girl' will, obviously, be much more comfortable as a woman.

I actually think that the fortunes of masculine women and feminine men have undergone a role reversal during my lifetime. 30-35 years ago (when I was a kid) there were lots of tomboyish girls. They had short hair, always wore pants and played with (and often beat) the boys. Everyone accepted this. However, at that time, it was completely unacceptable for a man or boy to be even slightly feminine (if he was straight). Now, however, very tomboyish women are socially marginalized (even if a girl plays boys' games she's still expected to be feminine), whilst feminine men are the in thing. Metrosexuality is completely accepted, and touchy, feely, men - like Barack Obama and David Cameron - run the world. Go figure!



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18 Apr 2011, 11:31 am

hyperlexian wrote:
this is getting me thinking about how many AS women think they would be better off as a man? when i was younger i wished i was a man, and i used to really think my life would have been easier if that had been the case. i'm not going to go into it here, but i was bullied quite badly by other girls (and boys but to a lesser degree), to the extent that administration had to get involved and i had to switch schools in grade 9.

also, it is not really socially acceptable for a female to be sexually aggressive. i have scared the pants off (see what i did there?) more than one guy because of my tendency to be extremely "forward". not all guys find that to be an attractive quality. really, a lot of them don't.

i have mostly female friends, but i identify quite a lot with how some men stereotypically are expected to approach life - i am ambitious, analytical, outspoken, and very assertive (in some ways). these are qualities that are still not as socially acceptable for women.


I am sorry to hear that you were bullied. :(

I was bullied too (peer pressure mostly as well as the odd teasing bully) and I found comfort in female comfort (although they still b***hed about me behind my back).

I don't really see why you would put off men for acting forward (then again, I was scared by a forward girl myself, she wasn't masculine but she acted in a similar hasfion) as I wouldn't find that such a bad thing to have two types of woman who are so different (different works, eh?)

Anyway, I wouldn't want you to change the way you are despite having some disagreements here with guys (I respect you as a member to do this MORE!) and I actually have grown to like girls who are very Alpha in their attitudes and have no regrets of not acting like the average girl or displeasing the average guy for that attitude...it's healthy.

As for wishing to be a guy, that's entirely up to you...but in this present time, are you proud of what you are as a woman that you can do these things and gain respect for woman who act in a similar manner? I know I would be proud.


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18 Apr 2011, 11:33 am

Another_Alien wrote:
You bring up a very interesting point. No offence, but it sounds as though you have a masculine personality (for a woman, anyway). In which case, you're bound to struggle, to some degree, living up to the expectation of being feminine. A 'girlie girl' will, obviously, be much more comfortable as a woman.

I actually think that the fortunes of masculine women and feminine men have undergone a role reversal during my lifetime. 30-35 years ago (when I was a kid) there were lots of tomboyish girls. They had short hair, always wore pants and played with (and often beat) the boys. Everyone accepted this. However, at that time, it was completely unacceptable for a man or boy to be even slightly feminine (if he was straight). Now, however, very tomboyish women are socially marginalized (even if a girl plays boys' games she's still expected to be feminine), whilst feminine men are the in thing. Metrosexuality is completely accepted, and touchy, feely, men - like Barack Obama and David Cameron - run the world. Go figure!

yeah, i went through some periods were i dressed like a boy/man and was proud to be mistaken for one. now i embrace my more feminine aspects, to a degree. i was the major breadwinner in my home for several years and my husband was a stay-at-home dad, so even though i was more feminine in appearance than i used to be, i still had a somewhat masculine aspect.

cool observations about the flip side. our changing culture seems to radically switch gender expectations, and i think aspies have enough trouble trying to fit into NT society in general without adding generational shifts.



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18 Apr 2011, 1:51 pm

I think women have it bit easier than men, at least in adult years. Whenever I read a story about NT spouse and Aspie spouse, its usually NT wife complaining about her AS husband who's emotionally unattached. Seeing that people with AS have trouble with employment, its easier for women to get away with not having a job or having a low paying job. Unemployed or underemployed AS men (or NT men for that matter also) are not seen as attractive than those with well paid jobs (studies show, look it up). Women are less creepy than men. Since men with AS have trouble with social rules and whatnot, they are more likely to come off as creepy when they try to talk to women. This might not be as much true when AS women talk to NT men. Also, men are more likely to approach attractive women. If a woman with AS is at least moderately attractive, she is most likely to get approached by a man who finds her interesting. AS woman will have an easier time getting married to a NT husband, even if she's socially awkward and does not earn a lot. As long as she's attractive to the man. AS men who are socially awkward are most likely to be seen as creeps, nerds, losers and whatnot by NT women (no offense, but this is what some males on this website said). Add the fact that they have trouble with employment, most likely can't afford a car, they are not gonna have easy time getting married.



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18 Apr 2011, 2:13 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Whoops, my whiny virgin comment actually belongs here.

I wouldn't want to be a dude whether he has aspergers or not. But not because it's "harder" but because I don't give a crap about cars and trains, sport, and im really not inerested in dating women. :wink:

Me too. And I'm a guy.



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18 Apr 2011, 2:44 pm

This is just my opinion.

If an Aspie female and Aspie male of reasonable / equal attractiveness were at a bar/club/party/social event, and both of these people are standing off to the side, not really interacting with people, the woman will have more opportunities to meet people, dance, etc than the guy will as more guys will be approaching her and trying to talk to her than the Aspie male would receive from other women at the event.

Whether or not you think that is a good thing or makes things easier/better for the Aspie female is definitely debatble but that's just how I believe the scenario would happen.



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18 Apr 2011, 4:05 pm

bucephalus wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
I wouldn't want to be a dude whether he has aspergers or not. But not because it's "harder" but because I don't give a crap about cars and trains, sport, and im really not inerested in dating women.


Well that's okay because as you said earlier...
Quote:
Wow, if you were a different gender, you'd be a completely different person. Guess what.. now that you're female, its possible you no longer want all that casual sex that you changed gender for!

Different hormones. Different organs. Different person.

This argument is just stupid.


Yeah true. Goes to show the argument is stupid, doesn't it?



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18 Apr 2011, 4:07 pm

MyWorld wrote:
I think women have it bit easier than men, at least in adult years.


Oh cool. Want to share your experience from the time before you had a sex change? I'll be interested to hear.



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18 Apr 2011, 4:25 pm

MyWorld wrote:
I think women have it bit easier than men, at least in adult years. Whenever I read a story about NT spouse and Aspie spouse, its usually NT wife complaining about her AS husband who's emotionally unattached. Seeing that people with AS have trouble with employment, its easier for women to get away with not having a job or having a low paying job. Unemployed or underemployed AS men (or NT men for that matter also) are not seen as attractive than those with well paid jobs (studies show, look it up). Women are less creepy than men. Since men with AS have trouble with social rules and whatnot, they are more likely to come off as creepy when they try to talk to women. This might not be as much true when AS women talk to NT men. Also, men are more likely to approach attractive women. If a woman with AS is at least moderately attractive, she is most likely to get approached by a man who finds her interesting. AS woman will have an easier time getting married to a NT husband, even if she's socially awkward and does not earn a lot. As long as she's attractive to the man. AS men who are socially awkward are most likely to be seen as creeps, nerds, losers and whatnot by NT women (no offense, but this is what some males on this website said). Add the fact that they have trouble with employment, most likely can't afford a car, they are not gonna have easy time getting married.

i've been called creepy. for real. how many female aspies have you met in real life? so that you can base your opinion on a fair sample size.



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18 Apr 2011, 4:29 pm

Bataar wrote:
This is just my opinion.

If an Aspie female and Aspie male of reasonable / equal attractiveness were at a bar/club/party/social event, and both of these people are standing off to the side, not really interacting with people, the woman will have more opportunities to meet people, dance, etc than the guy will as more guys will be approaching her and trying to talk to her than the Aspie male would receive from other women at the event.

Whether or not you think that is a good thing or makes things easier/better for the Aspie female is definitely debatble but that's just how I believe the scenario would happen.

sure, and if a woman said to a man on a first date,"i want nothing more than to get married and have kids as soon as possible!" then the chances of a second date would not be very good. if a man of similar attractiveness said the same thing on a first date, i believe he would have a considerably higher chance of success.