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Mormons are Commies ("prove" me wrong)

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cdfox7
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21 Apr 2011, 1:33 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
JakobVirgil from the Mormon view point of the history of world there is only one group of people who have successfully lived
the law of consecration. So please tell everyone who that group was?


I would have to cheat with a google search or call one of my mormon anarchist friends.
but my guesses would be.
  1. the jakobian jerusalem community [the poor of jerusalem]
  2. Navuoo
  3. some "city" from the book of mormon
  4. Brighams Youngs Deseret
what is it?


Enoch's city of Zion as talked about in the book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price.



JakobVirgil
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21 Apr 2011, 1:47 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
JakobVirgil from the Mormon view point of the history of world there is only one group of people who have successfully lived
the law of consecration. So please tell everyone who that group was?


I would have to cheat with a google search or call one of my mormon anarchist friends.
but my guesses would be.
  1. the jakobian jerusalem community [the poor of jerusalem]
  2. Navuoo
  3. some "city" from the book of mormon
  4. Brighams Youngs Deseret
what is it?


Enoch's city of Zion as talked about in the book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price.


Enoch = the great granddaddy of Noah?
I was unaware he had a city.
and this Zion was a commune?
mormons are commies. :lol:
Glenn and Mit are subversives or morons.


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Their hungry thirsty roots??

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cdfox7
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21 Apr 2011, 1:59 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
JakobVirgil from the Mormon view point of the history of world there is only one group of people who have successfully lived
the law of consecration. So please tell everyone who that group was?


I would have to cheat with a google search or call one of my mormon anarchist friends.
but my guesses would be.
  1. the jakobian jerusalem community [the poor of jerusalem]
  2. Navuoo
  3. some "city" from the book of mormon
  4. Brighams Youngs Deseret
what is it?


Enoch's city of Zion as talked about in the book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price.


Enoch = the great granddaddy of Noah?
I was unaware he had a city.
and this Zion was a commune?
mormons are commies. :lol:
Glenn and Mit are subversives or morons.


:lmao: Encoch's city ended up getting translated take off the earth cos they lived a too good of life. The law of consecration is one of the highest laws there is, its a celestial law of the highest of the three kingdoms of heaven the Celestial Kingdom.



JakobVirgil
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21 Apr 2011, 2:38 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
JakobVirgil from the Mormon view point of the history of world there is only one group of people who have successfully lived
the law of consecration. So please tell everyone who that group was?


I would have to cheat with a google search or call one of my mormon anarchist friends.
but my guesses would be.
  1. the jakobian jerusalem community [the poor of jerusalem]
  2. Navuoo
  3. some "city" from the book of mormon
  4. Brighams Youngs Deseret
what is it?


Enoch's city of Zion as talked about in the book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price.


Enoch = the great granddaddy of Noah?
I was unaware he had a city.
and this Zion was a commune?
mormons are commies. :lol:
Glenn and Mit are subversives or morons.


:lmao: Encoch's city ended up getting translated take off the earth cos they lived a too good of life. The law of consecration is one of the highest laws there is, its a celestial law of the highest of the three kingdoms of heaven the Celestial Kingdom.


so to a mormon the ideal city is a commune?


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?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


cdfox7
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21 Apr 2011, 2:47 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

so to a mormon the ideal city is a commune?


mmm could be if you look into what Moses 7:18 says about the city of Zion being "of one heart and one mind".

While I remember the author of the Twilight books is a Mormon, so it might be fair to say that vampires are commies.



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21 Apr 2011, 3:02 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Mormons are anarchist utopian socialists. (they call it the law of consecration or united order)

Anarchist utopian socialists are very different from Communists. Although Communists might claim to want utopian socialism, in actuality they produced state capitalism. But, more important they are hardly anarchists. If you did not fall in line, off to the Gulag with you...



cdfox7
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21 Apr 2011, 3:11 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Mormons are anarchist utopian socialists. (they call it the law of consecration or united order)

Anarchist utopian socialists are very different from Communists. Although Communists might claim to want utopian socialism, in actuality they produced state capitalism. But, more important they are hardly anarchists. If you did not fall in line, off to the Gulag with you...


I agree with that plus the main differences between law of consecration & Marxist Communism are:

1 voluntary versus involuntary
2. focused on God and Christ versus atheistic
3. private ownership versus no private ownership



JakobVirgil
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21 Apr 2011, 3:15 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Mormons are anarchist utopian socialists. (they call it the law of consecration or united order)

Anarchist utopian socialists are very different from Communists. Although Communists might claim to want utopian socialism, in actuality they produced state capitalism. But, more important they are hardly anarchists. If you did not fall in line, off to the Gulag with you...


so does this mean I have to stop calling mormons commies? :cry:
or stop calling them utopian socialists?
or maybe commie is just short-hand for leftist?
:please: :wink:


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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


cdfox7
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21 Apr 2011, 3:19 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Mormons are anarchist utopian socialists. (they call it the law of consecration or united order)

Anarchist utopian socialists are very different from Communists. Although Communists might claim to want utopian socialism, in actuality they produced state capitalism. But, more important they are hardly anarchists. If you did not fall in line, off to the Gulag with you...


so does this mean I have to stop calling mormons commies? :cry:
or stop calling them utopian socialists?
or maybe commie is just short-hand for leftist?
:please: :wink:


Ok am a mormon (less active one) with a center-left political view therefore JV using your logic am still a bloddy commie :lol:



AstroGeek
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21 Apr 2011, 3:22 pm

Well, in the USA commie is short hand for anyone you don't like. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Marx believe people (well, the majority of people) would welcome Communism? It was more Lenin and especially Stalin who perverted it, wasn't it?



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21 Apr 2011, 3:22 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Mormons are anarchist utopian socialists. (they call it the law of consecration or united order)

Anarchist utopian socialists are very different from Communists. Although Communists might claim to want utopian socialism, in actuality they produced state capitalism. But, more important they are hardly anarchists. If you did not fall in line, off to the Gulag with you...


so does this mean I have to stop calling mormons commies? :cry:
or stop calling them utopian socialists?
or maybe commie is just short-hand for leftist?
:please: :wink:


Ok am a mormon (less active one) with a center-left political view therefore JV using your logic am still a bloddy commie :lol:

:D :lol:


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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


robertyknwt
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27 Apr 2011, 6:51 pm

Mormon doctrine sees a voluntary communitarianism as the ideal community. However, it's quite different from communism or socialism.

Most American Mormons are very, very right wing, even by American standards. I'm a socialist Mormon from Canada living in California, and my fellow Saints here don't quite know what to make of my political beliefs. %-)

Outside of the North American west, though (Utah, Idaho, Arizona, Nevada, California, and Alberta), you'll find a decent spectrum of political beliefs among Mormons. I seem to remember some Mormons running for the Labour party in the UK, for example.



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27 Apr 2011, 6:54 pm

robertyknwt wrote:
Mormon doctrine sees a voluntary communitarianism as the ideal community. However, it's quite different from communism or socialism.

Most American Mormons are very, very right wing, even by American standards. I'm a socialist Mormon from Canada living in California, and my fellow Saints here don't quite know what to make of my political beliefs. %-)

Outside of the North American west, though (Utah, Idaho, Arizona, Nevada, California, and Alberta), you'll find a decent spectrum of political beliefs among Mormons. I seem to remember some Mormons running for the Labour party in the UK, for example.


The Mormons do not oppose privately owned property, even productive property or land. So they are not communists of the Marxist variety. They believe in sharing and preparing for shortages. None of this is inconsistent with private property.

ruveyn



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27 Apr 2011, 7:02 pm

ruveyn wrote:
robertyknwt wrote:
Mormon doctrine sees a voluntary communitarianism as the ideal community. However, it's quite different from communism or socialism.

Most American Mormons are very, very right wing, even by American standards. I'm a socialist Mormon from Canada living in California, and my fellow Saints here don't quite know what to make of my political beliefs. %-)

Outside of the North American west, though (Utah, Idaho, Arizona, Nevada, California, and Alberta), you'll find a decent spectrum of political beliefs among Mormons. I seem to remember some Mormons running for the Labour party in the UK, for example.


The Mormons do not oppose privately owned property, even productive property or land. So they are not communists of the Marxist variety. They believe in sharing and preparing for shortages. None of this is inconsistent with private property.


True. However, in the "ideal" Mormon communitarian society ("United Order"), one would sign the deed for one's land etc. over to the bishop, who would then almost always then charge the owner with working the land for the benefit of his family and the community as a whole. The "Law of Consecration" is key here (even though I suspect many well-off Mormons would have serious trouble following that law if push came to shove).



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27 Apr 2011, 7:24 pm

robertyknwt wrote:

True. However, in the "ideal" Mormon communitarian society ("United Order"), one would sign the deed for one's land etc. over to the bishop, who would then almost always then charge the owner with working the land for the benefit of his family and the community as a whole. The "Law of Consecration" is key here (even though I suspect many well-off Mormons would have serious trouble following that law if push came to shove).


That may all very well be true, but Main Line Mormons (LDS) are not Marixst Communists. They are not even Socialists.

ruveyn



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27 Apr 2011, 7:24 pm

Interesting question but I'm not comfortable with the title of this thread from a TOS perspective. Yes, difficult titles in PPR bother me. A lot. Its like inviting people to violate the TOS, even when the actual discussion does not.

Sorry, side note, off topic, but to me the crass terminology is getting way out of control. Like saying the F word just to silence the room and get people to turn their heads. We should be smarter than that.

Totally my own personal opinion. Debate it at will. But ... think about it.


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