Left-wing or Right-wing?

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ruveyn
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07 May 2011, 4:04 am

MONKEY wrote:

What, I thought they called themselves gypsies also?

I think Roma or Romany is the preferred name among these folks.

However people say gypsies or ziganies (in Europe) with no ill intent. It is just a commonly used designation. There term gypsy has not yet been demonized as has the term "n****r". Similarly the term "fairy" has been demonized and rendered Politically Incorrect because it was used to denigrate male homosexuals. A fairy is really a sprite of some sort that inhabits English gardens.

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07 May 2011, 5:36 am

:roll:
WTF is this thing with gypsies (or whatever) all the sudden?
I doubt even they wring thier hands this much over what they're referrd to as.

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07 May 2011, 6:40 am

kx250rider wrote:

I'm a registered Republican, and I have voted for all Republican presidential candidates since Reagan's 2nd term. Yes, including George W. Bush twice, and no regrets. I'm a Right hardliner with fiscal issues and in the defense of our country, fighting wars hard as needed, etc. Business are taxed way too much, and that's why there aren't jobs. Not the other way around. And I think all types of welfare and free stuff should be stopped for everyone who is able-minded/able-bodied. This means that the lazy will be forced to work, or live in the woods. The mentally or physically impaired, of course, shall be entitled to help as needed; and more of it when we filter out the parasites who sit home watching plasma TVs and having babies to increase welfare checks, and go in their BMWs to the store and park illegally in the handicapped space, to cash the welfare checks.

The Left will say it's fair to tax "rich people" more... WHY??????????? WTF???????????? Did it ever occur to the Left, that "rich people", having their money to spend and invest, is WHY we have jobs? It is. If everyone were a wage earner on salary, then who in Sam Hill is going to be the entrepreneur who started whatever company those workers are with? I believe in a flat tax. How is it unfair if we all had the same tax rate? "rich people" will STILL pay many times higher taxes, even if the tax rate is the same for lower-middle income people and ultra-wealthy. If, let's say we had a 10% tax rate, and If I make $45,000/a year, I would owe about $4,500 in taxes. If an oil tycoon makes $45,000,000/year, he/she will owe $4,500,000 in taxes. To me, that's fair. But the Left wants the oil tycoons to have a tax rate of more than 50%.

I will say that I'm more to the left with societal issues such as the fact that I support Gay marriage, and I believe abortion is up to the woman in question; not the government. Smaller government is better... Butt out, and let us live our lives is my theory of how a government should be.

Charles

what about company/personal responsibility?

i for one find iy fair to tax companies according to what they cost society.
same goes for people.

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Burzum
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07 May 2011, 7:09 am

Oodain wrote:

i for one find iy fair to tax companies according to what they cost society.
same goes for people.

Huh? How does a company (or person) cost society?

Tequila
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07 May 2011, 7:12 am

Fnord wrote:

The psychology of bigots...

1. They hate immigration.

Mass, uncontrollable immigration, yes. Nothing wrong with that. There are lots of people here who are utterly sick of having 'racism' accusations bellowed at them because they don't want the make-up of their country so radically altered without their consent. The people of the countries that they come from wouldn't tolerate that sort of behaviour; why should we?

Huge difference between anti-mass immigration and being anti-immigrant. A lot of people are too thick to tell the difference though, and this saddens me.

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2. They hate Gypsies.

If you mean we dislike people that commit crimes and generally make life hell for ordinary people, then yes. Otherwise we don't care if you're a gypsy or not.

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3. They ignore the facts regarding human-made Global Warming.

I'm undecided on this issue. It gets my back up when the pro side uses nasty attack phrases like 'deniers' and so on.

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4. They are politically intolerant and reject welfare programs (until they need one).

I need more detail on this. Are you talking about the typical stereotype of a hang 'em/flog 'em Daily Mail reader?

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5. They think that rights are priviledges that can be arbitrarily given and taken away at any time.

I'm very big on liberties. Ever heard of the liberal right (classical liberals, libertarians)?

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6. They think that showing mercy is a sign of weakness.

Depends on the circumstances.

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7. They think that only their beliefs matter.

That's a human problem, not something that is left v right.

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8. They think that anyone who does not share their beliefs does not matter.

Lefties are absolutely the same, if not worse for this sort of thing. Some of the self-indulgent hissy fits over "cuts" (that aren't) in this country are orchestrated by those people in public sector jobs whose jobs are often on the line.

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9. They think that having their beliefs gives them free license to impose their will upon others.

That's really an authoritarian problem, rather than right v left.

Burzum
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07 May 2011, 7:30 am

Fnord wrote:

What are you? Bigotted or Tolerant?

I'm tolerant and proud of it!

The word 'bigot' is meaningless.

Do you believe that humans are more intelligent than chimpanzees? Yes? You're a filthy bigot that is intolerant.

Philologos
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07 May 2011, 7:43 am

ruveyn wrote:

MONKEY wrote:

What, I thought they called themselves gypsies also?

You believe in fairies? Even in the class of sprites? Come look into this, Sir Arthur!

ruveyn
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07 May 2011, 7:47 am

Burzum wrote:

Fnord wrote:

What are you? Bigotted or Tolerant?

I'm tolerant and proud of it!

The word 'bigot' is meaningless.

Do you believe that humans are more intelligent than chimpanzees? Yes? You're a filthy bigot that is intolerant.

Take your greasy paws off me you damned dirty ape! --- Taylor in -Planet of the Apes-

NeantHumain
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07 May 2011, 9:35 am

HerrGrimm wrote:

NeantHumain wrote:

Let's make a cartoon caricature of the right-winger:

Licks the boots of authority figures, especially those using force (military, the police); an advocate of the fascist police state
Xenophobic; suspicious of foreigners; prone to racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry
Hyper-religious, desirous of imposing their religion on others through the state
Callous; not caring for the poor or disabled

Sometimes I wonder if people like you really believe that or are just trying to pick a fight...either way I will say that reading 5 pages in a history textbook does not make you an expert, which apparently a lot of people believe here, even denouncing someone's special interest because the person says uncomfortable things that they do not want to accept.. I am done with you.

Notice that I am responding to OP's caricature of a left-winger with an equally cartoonish caricature of a right-winger, nothing more.

WilliamWDelaney
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07 May 2011, 10:18 am

I guess I'm a bit on the liberal side. However, I for one am too much a victim of my upbringing to feel comfortable with the more strained and uptight aspects of liberalism.

There is only so far that I can comply with political correctness, and after that point I am afraid I lapse. It's not so much out of having any axe to grind with the colored people--or whatever they like to be called now--as me just being too dang lazy to retrain my patterns of speech. The people of color around me think I'm old-fashioned and silly, but they also know that it was people in my position, who were too lazy and unprincipled to ever care much about color, who really broke the color barriers around here.

And let's see...I like making my own business, but I'm not really well versed enough at dealing with bureaucracy to fiddle with too much paperwork or jumping through hoops like old Flipper. Now, I'm not going to make very much of a political issue over regulation because my mentality doesn't run that way. Instead, it just so happens that I'm a little chummy with my district's representative, and a little wink and a nudge can eliminate little regulations inhibiting me in that respect.

Either that, or he'll explain to me why they are logical, and that pretty much ends it. The boy knows me, and he knows that I need to have things explained the way you would to a little toddler, you see. Because I trust him and know him, I know he wouldn't tell me one thing when he's thinking another.

I'm a corrupted and dirty S.O.B. in some respects, and I'm not sure I'm so much proud of it as I just don't give a hoot. What does matter to me is that I try to keep on good terms with the man or woman who represents me, so when there is something I personally have a need for out of my government, I usually don't have a problem getting it unless there is some good reason I shouldn't. If my representative doesn't want anything to do with me, I just take myself and my money to another district, and I'm just as comfortable.

That's about as sophisticated as my politics really get if you really want to know the truth. One thing that I do appreciate about my government more than anything, though, is that they educated me with the skills and know-how I need to be able to live very comfortably and never really have to work for a living. I know that not everybody thinks in that way, but I do.

HerrGrimm
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07 May 2011, 11:15 am

NeantHumain wrote:

Notice that I am responding to OP's caricature of a left-winger with an equally cartoonish caricature of a right-winger, nothing more.

I have been reading out of context very bad on this site. My apologues.

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Master_Pedant
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07 May 2011, 12:01 pm

Burzum wrote:

Fnord wrote:

What are you? Bigotted or Tolerant?

I'm tolerant and proud of it!

The word 'bigot' is meaningless.

Do you believe that humans are more intelligent than chimpanzees? Yes? You're a filthy bigot that is intolerant.

You have no idea on how the english language works. "Bigot" is used generally in the context of humans - mainly, when referring to generalized judgements about ethnic or cultural clusters of humans. Even if "bigotry" as a concept is extended to non-humans, it is usually regarded as quite a different concept (i.e. it's not "bigoted" to say that Chimps are less intelligent but it is to say they don't feel pain, etc).

Regardless, your "point" is based on a lame arse strawman. Nice try with the evasion, though.

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Fnord
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07 May 2011, 12:03 pm

Burzum wrote:

Fnord wrote:

What are you? Bigotted or Tolerant? I'm tolerant and proud of it!

The word 'bigot' is meaningless.

Only to a bigot.

Burzum wrote:

Do you believe that humans are more intelligent than chimpanzees? Yes? You're a filthy bigot that is intolerant.

A bigot is a person who denies the facts to fit his reality.

How can we assess chimp intelligence?

- they make tools and use them to acquire foods, for social displays, etc
- they have sophisticated hunting strategies that require cooperation, and allow animals to achieve influence and rank by sharing meat
- they are highly status conscious and manipulative, capable of deception
- they are analytical and problem-solvers, clearly capable of insight and complex "cognitive performance" in both the wild and in captivity, and particularly adept at analyzing relative relationships
- language experiments have shown that chimps are creative, can learn to use symbols (and teach them to others) and understand aspects of human language including some relational syntax, concepts of number and numerical sequence

Then again...

- they are cannibalistic, and will eat their own young
- they play with (and sometimes eat) their feces
- they are rarely (if ever) toilet-trainable
- their language skills are limited to "point-and-grunt"

It is not bigotry to point out the obvious. Chimpanzees are less intelligent than humans aged 4 and up.

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07 May 2011, 12:10 pm

Raptor wrote:

:roll:
WTF is this thing with gypsies (or whatever) all the sudden?
I doubt even they wring thier hands this much over what they're referrd to as.

Some do. Mostly I find the term stupid as the etymology goes back to the strange medieval idea that Gypsies are Egyptian. Clearly they are not Egyptian so why refer to them as such?

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07 May 2011, 12:49 pm

I still find it laughable that the Romani people are an "issue" for this obviously racially bigoted OP.

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07 May 2011, 12:57 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

I still find it laughable that the Romani people are an "issue" for this obviously racially bigoted OP.

Yes, it's highly painfull for master, because his ancestors are gypsies. Gypsies are regarded as highly criminal and uncouth in Europe. And DNA is there to stay, of course.

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