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Dox47
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07 May 2011, 1:15 am

Though your question is silly 'keet, you're backing into one of the philosophical areas of the gun debate that I find interesting; at what point does an amalgamation of mechanical parts become a deadly weapon requiring regulation? It's particularly odd when you get into the highly regulated NFA category of firearms, where the ATF has deemed such things as a shoelace tied in a particular way to constitute "machine gun parts" requiring copious documentation and risking serious jail time for simple possession. "Constructive possession" is another dubious legal concept in this area, where having the components necessary to manufacture an illegal device is considered de facto possession of said device for charging purposes. This is like saying that because you have a gas can, beer bottles and shop rags in your garage, the government can charge you with possession to molotov cocktails, a destructive device.

A catapult would not fall under ATF jurisdiction since it's source of power is purely mechanical and not chemical, but I would not by surprised to see them regulated in some areas. California for example bans such terrifying implements as "ninja" stars, blowguns and nunchucks (sic), to name just a few of the more questionable prohibitions in that state. It's always the blowguns that kill me, I mean really; who commits a crime with a blowgun? More importantly to me; what legislator is so worried about blowgun crime that he put time and effort into getting them banned?


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07 May 2011, 2:19 am

Dox47 wrote:
Though your question is silly 'keet, you're backing into one of the philosophical areas of the gun debate that I find interesting; at what point does an amalgamation of mechanical parts become a deadly weapon requiring regulation? It's particularly odd when you get into the highly regulated NFA category of firearms, where the ATF has deemed such things as a shoelace tied in a particular way to constitute "machine gun parts" requiring copious documentation and risking serious jail time for simple possession. "Constructive possession" is another dubious legal concept in this area, where having the components necessary to manufacture an illegal device is considered de facto possession of said device for charging purposes. This is like saying that because you have a gas can, beer bottles and shop rags in your garage, the government can charge you with possession to molotov cocktails, a destructive device.

A catapult would not fall under ATF jurisdiction since it's source of power is purely mechanical and not chemical, but I would not by surprised to see them regulated in some areas. California for example bans such terrifying implements as "ninja" stars, blowguns and nunchucks (sic), to name just a few of the more questionable prohibitions in that state. It's always the blowguns that kill me, I mean really; who commits a crime with a blowgun? More importantly to me; what legislator is so worried about blowgun crime that he put time and effort into getting them banned?


I'm not quite sure what philosophical area I'm backing into, but I'd say the same type of legislator who is worried about crime potentially being committed with blowguns would probably be the same type of legislator who would be worried about catapults, swords, pocket knifes, sharp sticks and thin pieces of paper. They'd be the kind of person who would seek to 'protect' everyone from themselves until the coddle them to death.

I can see why that one infantry nuke wouldn't work, but then again so can everyone else. It might be one thing if the trench is already built or if it's remote detonate-able, but that situation as is would just not be practical in a combat situation where a tactical nuke might be necessary to clear a battlefield.



iamnotaparakeet
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07 May 2011, 2:27 am

Philologos wrote:
Are there states where it is NOT illegal to carry concealed Greek fire?

Did you hear the one about the woman - I THINK it was in New York - who got into trouble for concealed weapons when she removed a hatpin from her head and jabbed an attacker?

Serve and protect.


A lot of police cars no longer have "To serve and protect" on them. Although in itself it's just a mere slogan, now there are new slogans such as "Professionalism and Integrity". As a senator of Rome once said though, "the more laws, the less justice" and police often enough merely enforce whatever laws a group of publicly selected busybodies care to invent each time they meet.



Chevand
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07 May 2011, 3:00 am

Dox47 wrote:
California for example bans such terrifying implements as "ninja" stars, blowguns and nunchucks (sic), to name just a few of the more questionable prohibitions in that state. It's always the blowguns that kill me, I mean really; who commits a crime with a blowgun? More importantly to me; what legislator is so worried about blowgun crime that he put time and effort into getting them banned?


I can't speak to the usage of blowguns in particular, but there have been some strange weapons implicated in crimes, so it wouldn't surprise me. A few years ago, I can vividly recall a story in the news about an attempted robbery at a convenience store in Colorado where the would-be criminal was armed with a Klingon bat'leth.


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07 May 2011, 3:34 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
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or privately owned spy satellites, armed with long-distance lazers.


Actually, I would like the ability to privately own spacecraft, as per the scenario of Firefly. Also, the acronym is L.A.S.E.R. not lazer.

I stand corrected.



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07 May 2011, 3:35 am

Philologos wrote:
Are there states where it is NOT illegal to carry concealed Greek fire?.

= napalm?



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07 May 2011, 3:36 am

Dox47 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
I would like to build a nuclear trebuchet


I would hope that that would either be, somehow, built to have the range of a Paris gun or that the projectiles would be rather low yield. Otherwise, that's simply a recipe for self annihilation.


The US army once fielded a weapon called the "Davey Crockett" that was essentially a man portable nuclear recoilless rifle with a blast radius greater than it's maximum range. It took 6 hours to fire, because first a suitably deep trench had to be dug for the crew to shelter in from the blast. It never really took off as a weapon concept.


Atomic artillery never really worked out. It was found to be ineffective in testing and it is a danger to the side using it. Forget about it.

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07 May 2011, 3:38 am

Chevand wrote:
A few years ago, I can vividly recall a story in the news about an attempted robbery at a convenience store in Colorado where the would-be criminal was armed with a Klingon bat'leth.


Empty the cash register, p'takh! Perhaps today is a good day to die! For Stovokor!


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07 May 2011, 3:44 am

Vigilans wrote:
Chevand wrote:
A few years ago, I can vividly recall a story in the news about an attempted robbery at a convenience store in Colorado where the would-be criminal was armed with a Klingon bat'leth.


Empty the cash register, p'takh! Perhaps today is a good day to die! For Stovokor!


q'Plah!

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07 May 2011, 3:48 am

Dox47 wrote:
California for example bans such terrifying implements as "ninja" stars, blowguns and nunchucks (sic), to name just a few of the more questionable prohibitions in that state. It's always the blowguns that kill me, I mean really; who commits a crime with a blowgun? More importantly to me; what legislator is so worried about blowgun crime that he put time and effort into getting them banned?

I was surprised by this as a Californian who regularly trains in martial arts, but it appears to be true; even a bo (shoulder-height stick) is apparently verboten as a self-defense weapon, so I guess I'll have to start training with a jo (arm-pit height stick) instead. :roll:
edit: or buy a shotgun.



Dox47
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07 May 2011, 4:00 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I'm not quite sure what philosophical area I'm backing into...


Well, take a look at this for example:

Image

That's a disassembled silencer, and according to the ATF every single one of those parts in and of itself is an illegal (if not properly registered) silencer component carrying a heavy penalty for possession. Forget for a moment that the ATF definition of a silencer if taken at face value would make such items as potatoes and feather pillows illegal, but look at the relative simplicity of those parts. They're just metal cones with holes drilled in them and a metal tube with threaded caps; nothing illicit until they're combined in just the right way to produce an item that the state has deemed worthy of heavy regulation and outright prohibition in many areas. Is it illegal for me to make metal cones on my lathe? How about tubes with threaded caps? Why is one configuration of the same materials legal and the other not? That's the sort of thing I mean when I say you're backing into an interesting philosophical area.


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JakobVirgil
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07 May 2011, 9:04 am

LKL wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
LKL wrote:
or privately owned spy satellites, armed with long-distance lazers.


Actually, I would like the ability to privately own spacecraft, as per the scenario of Firefly. Also, the acronym is L.A.S.E.R. not lazer.

I stand corrected.

you can say lazer if you want it is a synonym of zapgun or blaster is science fiction.


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Dox47
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07 May 2011, 12:53 pm

LKL wrote:
I was surprised by this as a Californian who regularly trains in martial arts, but it appears to be true; even a bo (shoulder-height stick) is apparently verboten as a self-defense weapon, so I guess I'll have to start training with a jo (arm-pit height stick) instead. :roll:
edit: or buy a shotgun.


One of my martial artist friends came up against the same issue; there is no legal way for him to carry or use the nunchuku that he trains with, but he can easily get a concealed pistol license and that would be kosher. He'd rather carry the less lethal martial arts weapon, but the state won't let him and has virtually restricted him to knives of a certain design and firearms; how does that sort of thing help make anyone safer? This same friend nearly got arrested one time for practicing with said nunchuku on his own front lawn, in Washington state it's apparantly legal to own nunchuku, but illegal to "wield" them outside of a dojo... :roll:

Personally, I feel that if you are able to get a carry license for a pistol that it should also apply to any hand weapon you may feel like carrying, the idea that the state trusts you to carry a handgun but not throwing stars or a switchblade is just asinine.


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naturalplastic
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07 May 2011, 4:53 pm

If youre gonna get Medeaval then falconry is the way to go.

Birds of prey make great hunting weapons but are not much use in crime.

They come in a variety of sizes and styles ranging from kestrels up to Eagles.

Its a no brainer.



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07 May 2011, 5:13 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Though your question is silly 'keet, you're backing into one of the philosophical areas of the gun debate that I find interesting; at what point does an amalgamation of mechanical parts become a deadly weapon requiring regulation? It's particularly odd when you get into the highly regulated NFA category of firearms, where the ATF has deemed such things as a shoelace tied in a particular way to constitute "machine gun parts" requiring copious documentation and risking serious jail time for simple possession. "Constructive possession" is another dubious legal concept in this area, where having the components necessary to manufacture an illegal device is considered de facto possession of said device for charging purposes. This is like saying that because you have a gas can, beer bottles and shop rags in your garage, the government can charge you with possession to molotov cocktails, a destructive device.

A catapult would not fall under ATF jurisdiction since it's source of power is purely mechanical and not chemical, but I would not by surprised to see them regulated in some areas. California for example bans such terrifying implements as "ninja" stars, blowguns and nunchucks (sic), to name just a few of the more questionable prohibitions in that state. It's always the blowguns that kill me, I mean really; who commits a crime with a blowgun? More importantly to me; what legislator is so worried about blowgun crime that he put time and effort into getting them banned?
You've heard of Carolyn McCarthy right? This level of stupidity shouldn't surprise you at all.



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07 May 2011, 5:36 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
A catapult would not fall under ATF jurisdiction since it's source of power is purely mechanical and not chemical, but I would not by surprised to see them regulated in some areas. California for example bans such terrifying implements as "ninja" stars, blowguns and nunchucks (sic), to name just a few of the more questionable prohibitions in that state. It's always the blowguns that kill me, I mean really; who commits a crime with a blowgun? More importantly to me; what legislator is so worried about blowgun crime that he put time and effort into getting them banned?


I'm not quite sure what philosophical area I'm backing into, but I'd say the same type of legislator who is worried about crime potentially being committed with blowguns would probably be the same type of legislator who would be worried about catapults, swords, pocket knifes, sharp sticks and thin pieces of paper. They'd be the kind of person who would seek to 'protect' everyone from themselves until the coddle them to death.

There's a groups of usual suspects in California that tries to pull stupid crap like this a couple times a legislative year. Now they've banned trans fats (I never realized how good they made donuts taste until it wasn't in them anymore) and other unhealthy foods.


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