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MarketAndChurch
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07 May 2011, 6:49 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Lefebvre wrote:
In the past there was Nazi Germany, now there is Nazi USA:
they violate international laws (Iraq, Pakistan), violate human rights (Guantanamo bay), support the world's most horrific state (Israel) that treats palestinian civilians as subhumans, invade any nation if they feel the urge.




North Korea is way more horrific. Most of its adult population lives on the verge of malnutrition. Only the Army and Dear Leader eat well..

ruveyn


That's right 'we aren't the worst so we aren't wrong' what a muppet.

The OP may be clumsy and poorly argued but the US does have parallels with many rogue empires of the past. In fact the US has been a rogue state from even before the rise of a Nazi Germany is well documented, Decorated carrer military hero Smedley himself denounced all the US wars except WWI and WWII since the invasion of the Phillipines as crimes in support of US corporate interests.

peace j


We are a dangerous nation with an impulse of constant expansionism. Rogue? Certainly, especially at the time to the tyrant monarchs of Euorpe. Knocking down one empire after another for full control of the North American continent.

What is in the philippines or vietnam or south korea that could be of any interest to us economically? Rubber? Coconuts? Fish? Pretty lavish charge... and if it were true, sad that such s***y industries can have such a large sway on foreign policy.


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RedHanrahan
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07 May 2011, 6:52 pm

IDF and Hamas usually need you ask?

The IDF fires US made rockets from US made helecopters, Hamas fire homemade rockets from homemade surface based platforms often in the form of a small truck.

This denies the bulk of my points how exactly?
I have never given any validation or spoken of Hamas' rocket attacks favourably, I don't even recall stating that I can understand the situation they find themselves in. You are the person who relentlessly states that 'might is right' and certain sectors of the human race should be eradicated. Don't try and muddy the waters and give yourself credability by infering that I support one sides tactics over anothers, I don't, killing is killing is killing and is to me counter productive unless your agenda is genocide.
I have in actual fact spoken of a need to accept the presence of Israel as an established fact and the need for some peacefull co-existence. I will not stop denouncing Israeli/Zionist agression and racism on these grounds.


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psychohist
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07 May 2011, 9:23 pm

Fnord wrote:
How they achieve full employment has always eluded me.

Assuming that claims of full employment are valid, would you care to explain?

I haven't studied it in detail, but my understanding is that the "deal", perhaps unstated, was that the industrialists would employ more people even when they didn't need them, and the government would coopt the labor unions and keep wages low to make that additional employment affordable to the industrialists. Interwar rearmament may have played an important part in absorbing excess production as well.

In the short run, which is to say for the decade or so of the great depression, it worked "well", at least in the sense of achieving its goals of full employment and national unity. In the longer run, it would be expected to result in economic stagnation due to the elimination of market forces in favor of an oligopoly of established large corporations. In the event, the scapegoating necessary to maintain political unity resulted in wars that ended the fascist experiments in Germany and Italy before economic stagnation could do them in.



Fnord
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07 May 2011, 9:44 pm

psychohist wrote:
Fnord wrote:
How they achieve full employment has always eluded me. Assuming that claims of full employment are valid, would you care to explain?

I haven't studied it in detail, but my understanding is that the "deal", perhaps unstated, was that the industrialists would employ more people even when they didn't need them...

Padding the Payroll.
psychohist wrote:
... and the government would coopt the labor unions and keep wages low to make that additional employment affordable to the industrialists.

Fixed wages.
psychohist wrote:
Interwar rearmament may have played an important part in absorbing excess production as well.

Government-subsidised make-work projects.
psychohist wrote:
In the short run, which is to say for the decade or so of the great depression, it worked "well", at least in the sense of achieving its goals of full employment and national unity.

Ahh ... but who pays for it all?
psychohist wrote:
In the longer run, it would be expected to result in economic stagnation due to the elimination of market forces in favor of an oligopoly of established large corporations.

Welcome to America!
psychohist wrote:
In the event, the scapegoating necessary to maintain political unity resulted in wars that ended the fascist experiments in Germany and Italy before economic stagnation could do them in.

"Omigawd! We're almost out of money! Let's blame some insular ethnic group; portray them as greedy, manipulative and immoral; and then declare them to be criminals so that we can arrest them and confiscate all their wealth for ourselves!"

It all makes sense now.


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blunnet
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07 May 2011, 10:46 pm

Lefebvre wrote:
In the past there was Nazi Germany, now there is Nazi USA:
they violate international laws (Iraq, Pakistan), violate human rights (Guantanamo bay), support the world's most horrific state (Israel) that treats palestinian civilians as subhumans, invade any nation if they feel the urge.


One nation, one people, one Fuhrer,

Heil Obama!

Godwin's law.

But, yeah, Guantanamo, it isn't the first time that the US gets away with violating human rights, and supposely Obama dissmantled it? anyway, nice going, torturing people again.



psychohist
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07 May 2011, 11:31 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
psychohist wrote:
The problem is, to most nonjews, they pretty much do speak with one voice. I've never heard agreement with any criticism of Israeli policy from a jew, even from those that I've accidentally seen criticizing that policy to other jews. To mollify the perception you dislike, jews need to be willing to discuss these issues with nonjews, rather than just closing ranks.
You've never heard of Noam Chomsky by any chance, have you?

I've heard of him, but the only things I know about him are that he holds linguistic theories that are totally at odds with the facts, and that his writing style makes things appear more complex than they are, which seems to impress some people. And now I'm inferring from your post that he's jewish.

Not that it would matter anyway. I'm talking about what I hear from jews I know personally, not what I read, and I certainly don't know Chomsky personally.



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07 May 2011, 11:37 pm

Chomsky - totally on on his linguistics, and I will avoid my boiler plate rant on how he leveraged himself to Big Brother status in Linguistics.

For the rest: Chomsky is of Jewish extraction.

Given what has been said recently in these pages about the status of Messianic Jews, a careful; taxonomist would say that he is as Jewish as I am a Transformationalist. Three guesses as to what that figure is.



psychohist
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08 May 2011, 12:59 am

Philologos wrote:
I will avoid my boiler plate rant on how he leveraged himself to Big Brother status in Linguistics.

I'm interested in the story if you are willing to write it.



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08 May 2011, 8:38 am

I will be brief - an effort - but since you ask ... And I shall poszt here rather than pm because there are features which are instructive and not that far off topic.

Briefly, then:

Chomsky signed on as a student with Zellig Harris, the least comprehensible of all clearheaded and reasonable linguists. I have no idea why.

In assembling his dissertation on Hebrew grammar - Jewish extraction - he took the concept of TRANSFORMATION Harris had come up with, stripped off the name, attached it to a concept totally different except for relating distinct constructions. I have no idea what Harris thought and said at the defence.

Degree in hand, Chomsky took on a job teaching Linguistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. WHAT? you say? That is what I said. Did Texas A and M have a linguistics department in the late 50s? Why would it? I have ni idea WHY MIT decided to do such a thing.

But I CAN guess how Chomsky got the job, given it existed. He is of the same basic personality class as Masrtin Luther, Joseph Smith, Muhammad, Stalin, Mussolini [Hitler is different]. He combines forceful energy with charismatic delivery - and though I despise him and his works, I have never denied that he has intelligence. If there is a job, and he wants it, most faculty committees I have seen will be persuaded.

So he is teaching at MIT, publishing, hooking up with a cluster of exEuropean innovators and patching pieces of their ideas into his theoretical models. He is addressing engineers, mathematicians, people from the English department. His model plays like math or Fortran, he is not burdening anyone with languages engineers and English majors don't know. He is forceful and charismatic and nobody is offering MIT alternative versions of Linguistics.

He convinced and trained a cadre of exEnglish and exEngineering Transformationalists and sent them out as missionaries - or infiltrators. Each Chomskyite who got a job teaching Linguistics at UCLA or Indiana or wherever began talking loudly and bringing engineers and English majors into the Linguistics classes, publishing aggressively and spreading the word.

If a Transformationalist spoke at a conference, at question time the others would stand up with words of praise and congratulation. When a nonTG linguist spoke, thde Transformers would rise one at a time and pick and heckle a la PPR.

And IF there were a job opening in a department that held as cuckoo - sorry, Chomskyite - he would work to ensure it was filled by another Chomskyite.

Very soon miost Linguistic departments and the major peer reviewed journals were solidly TG - no one else could get a job, no one else could be published. The few holdovers and holdouts - I belong to the latter category - were more and more marginal.

Consensus in the field - achieved by peer pressure and conquest, not by persuasion.

Eventually, though, nature asserted itself. Converts to TG who actually looked at languages saw it did not work. TRhey stasrted to try to fix it. Some really interesting work was done - great new ideas.

But would Muhammad or Stalin or Luther tolerate that? Out came Son of Chomsky - a NEW theory, Windows 2000, which pushed by Chomsky's charisma and party loyalty took over and put him back on the throne.

That is Chomsky in a nutshell. He bulldozed my home and turbed my favorite poark into a parking lot.



WilliamWDelaney
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08 May 2011, 9:25 am

psychohist wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
psychohist wrote:
The problem is, to most nonjews, they pretty much do speak with one voice. I've never heard agreement with any criticism of Israeli policy from a jew, even from those that I've accidentally seen criticizing that policy to other jews. To mollify the perception you dislike, jews need to be willing to discuss these issues with nonjews, rather than just closing ranks.
You've never heard of Noam Chomsky by any chance, have you?

I've heard of him, but the only things I know about him are that he holds linguistic theories that are totally at odds with the facts, and that his writing style makes things appear more complex than they are, which seems to impress some people. And now I'm inferring from your post that he's jewish.
He's Jewish as bagels, Jesus and Infected Mushroom. He's also a pro-Palestinian activist.

Although I disagree with him on the matter, please read some of his material on this subject, so you can at least appear to be partially educated when you are proposing what I think is a not only wrong but incompletely and, moreover, inexpertly considered view on this matter.

http://www.amazon.com/Gaza-Crisis-Refle ... 238&sr=1-1

The truth of the matter is that there can be no simple solution for the situation between Israel and the Palestinian territories.

Every single contested inch of land between Israel and the Palestinian is a separate and unique dispute with different actors involved. Each millimeter of turf there has its own unique and often extremely ancient history.

I know it's a lot of work, but go on Google Maps, and look carefully over the individual sub-divisions of Gaza Strip. What you should do is actually look at each sub-division, and research the detailed history and background behind it. All of them have a different story behind them.

Also, look carefully at every single district in East Jerusalem, and explore in detail the history behind them.

Look at the individual West Bank territories, and explore their history in detail.

Is that too much work for you? If so, stay out of it. It's none of your business if you can't be bothered to even become familiar with what is actually going on underneath the rhetoric.

And, if you can't do half the work that I did on trying to grasp and understand this subject, just face up to the fact that you don't know what you're bloody talking about.

The only way that the problems between the Israelis and the Palestinians will ever be resolved will be to take it one thing at a time. That sort of process would take decades if most parties involved were willing to behave like adults.

Please note that I am breathing steadily and not holding my breath.

Quote:
Not that it would matter anyway. I'm talking about what I hear from jews I know personally, not what I read, and I certainly don't know Chomsky personally.
The Jews I've known personally couldn't agree with each other if their lives depended on it.

They do the same thing with gentiles, though. If you talk to two different Jews about Israel's policy on Palestinians, both of them will take the position on the topic that is most directly in opposition to yours. They will do this on just about any subject whatsoever.

It's a Jew thing. I think they treat it like mental pilates or something.



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08 May 2011, 10:05 am

Hang on, I'll look out my window..............
Nope, no concentration camp.
So no then, we're not Nazis.



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08 May 2011, 10:10 am

The landscapers do a fantastic job these days.

Even in Adolphus' glory days they tried not to make the camps too conspicuous.



Lefebvre
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08 May 2011, 10:15 am

YippySkippy wrote:
Hang on, I'll look out my window..............
Nope, no concentration camp.
So no then, we're not Nazis.


Yes, and Auschwitz was in Poland.
And Guantanamo in Cuba, wasnt it?

'A room with a view, and you....'



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08 May 2011, 4:04 pm

http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/News/to ... 1/2502.htm

Tamara Shavit wrote:
"And, unbelievable though it may sound, because of desire and will, it is working. Last year, 180,000 Palestinian citizens entered Israel to receive treatment. 3,000 emergency patients were transferred from Israeli to Palestinian ambulances using the “back to back” method, without warning. “Ultimately, this is a rewarding experience. There is frustration, of course there is. But on the other hand, there are people who see me on the street or in hospitals, hear my name and say ‘You saved my son’s life’. When you get home in the end of the day and examine your life, you know that you saved lives. You know you did a lot of good.”"


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/17 ... c-mccarthy
Andrew C. McCarthy wrote:
Further more, despite ongoing rocket fire, Israel continues with the extensive humanitarian effort in coordination with the international organizations, Palestinian Authority and various donors. Ninety three trucks, with approximately 2500 tons of humanitarian aid, medical supplies and medication were conveyed through Kerem Shalom cargo terminal. The World Food Programme has informed Israel that they will not be resuming shipment of food commodities in to Gaza due to the fact that their warehouses are at full capacity and will last for approximately two weeks.


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 29,00.html
Tani Goldstein wrote:
The Gaza power plant only produces 30% of the electricity consumed in the Strip while Israel supplies the rest.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... e-1.302680
DPA wrote:
After a meeting with European Union High Representative Catherine Ashton, Lieberman said the new Israeli policy of increasing the amount of goods that can enter the Gaza Strip "is not enough" and that his government "is looking for serious partners" to improve the economic situation in the coastal territory.


http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/20 ... s-20110320
Edmund Sanders, Los Angeles Times wrote:
Hamas' military wing claimed responsibility for firing 33 of the projectiles, marking the first time Hamas has acknowledged firing mortar shells into Israel since January 2009 at the end of the 22-day Israeli offensive in Gaza.


And by the way, jerks, before any of you start throwing around the accusation, nobody is calling you "antisemites." We're just laughing at you because you are f*****g morons. It makes me embarrassed to be a called a Westerner that so many of you have been so completely taken in by the anti-Israel propaganda out there.



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08 May 2011, 5:39 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Although I disagree with him on the matter, please read some of his material on this subject, so you can at least appear to be partially educated when you are proposing what I think is a not only wrong but incompletely and, moreover, inexpertly considered view on this matter.

http://www.amazon.com/Gaza-Crisis-Refle ... 238&sr=1-1

The truth of the matter is that there can be no simple solution for the situation between Israel and the Palestinian territories.

And yet, it seem the whole problem is so simple you can give me a boilerplate response when in fact I have not proposed any view whatsoever on what should be done in the matter.