After death.

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It's brutal and sick and ignorant. But this isn't exclusive to Catholics. Protestants and Baptists believe this as well. In fact, if you want to take the Bible at its word, they all should believe as much.

I wish they'd reform a lot of things in the tenants, or just start looking the other way. It's not they haven't done that with practically the entire old testament.

Which is odd, as Jesus committed suicide. If he was the son of God then he did not have to die, but chose to. Even if he was not the son of God, calling yourself the messiah in a nation where blasphemy carried the death penalty is a form of suicide. when he rode on the back of a donkey into Jerusalem he knew how it would be seen, and on the night of the last supper he knew what would happen and embraced it. He chose to die, just as surely as if he had taken pills.

Suicide by Centurion?

Authority figures always say "do as I say, not as I do," don't they...

Because of the centralized nature of the Church, Catholics have a lot more uniformity when it comes to those beliefs and this makes matters worse. In terms of effectiveness, Catholics seem to be the best at advancing social barbarism (conservatism).

Would you like to amplify on that "social barbarism"? In contrast to what, social savagery? Social decadence? Who are the social Greeks or, of you like, Romans?

Social barbarism

• Bigotry against gays and lesbians (91, a Catholic, has spoken out against Same-Sex Marriage and Gay/Lesbians Adopting children)
• Subjugation of women
• Belief that those troubled or desiring death are "sinful" and deserve to burn for eternity.

Social enlightenment

• Respect for gays and lesbians.
• Respect for women as equal members of society ready to serve important leadership positions.
• Compassion for the suicidal and, generally, attempts to coax them out (unless it really is a dire case), but respect for their memory rather than the filthy belief they deserve eternal torment.

well, thank you for that.

Contrasting barbarism / enlightenment is unusual, but I realize we are doing labelling not analysis here.

Your specific list of examples is interesting - I would have said there were some practices fitting the "barbaric" description a good deal better.

May talk it some other time. For the moment....

This might just be my experiences, but I find the evangelical protestants to be more vocal. I hear their message more than the Catholics. Pendant, do you have a particular dislike of Catholicism?

Cessation of consciousness topic

This is what death is. b9 wrote so eloquently about it, using water metaphors.

It is like when you fall asleep. You only know this has occurred because you have awakened and remember just before entering slumber. In the case of death, it happens and there is no rememberance because there is no consciousness.

If you want to be remembered after death, leave a will, charitable trust, children, descendants, and evidence of your life in photos, writings, songs, etc.

Very few people sleep so deeply they have no idea they are asleep. Most of us dream and most of us are aware of noises. At my age, my bladder wakes me up two times a night. So, for me, sleep is not the least bit like death or cessation of consciousness.


ruveyn

If you leave descendants, writings, etc., then your life is not merely remembered, it is actively changing the world even after your body dies. For this reason, the death of the body cannot be called the death of the person. IMO.

No peace, just pees topic

Correct. Sleep is not like death, but the moment at which you lose consciousness and slip into slumber (or even when you go under anaesthetic) is what the transition from life to death can be compared with. The difference is that you do not wake up and recall that you did sleep or undergo that surgery.

I hope that you are not having prostate problems. and waking up to pee twice a night is terribly annoying.

Cup of tea, then rebirth.

Do you think, while you are having your cup of tea, you will be aware of all the lives you have lived previously? And will it be earl grey, or sencha green tea?

I used to have quite a negative opinion of Buddhism. I was turned off by the idea that all is suffering. It seemed so depressing. But then I spent 15 years with depression, and now it seems quite realistic. I realise that's not really what the idea is about, it doesn't just refer to depressed people. But I feel less negative about Buddhism than I used to.

One of my biggest problems with Christianity is suffering, not just of people but of animals. The idea that Eve is to blame for all that suffering is preposterous. And I've never understood how any benevolent God could create a world, knowing what would happen, and yet condemning so many living beings to so much suffering.

I fancy some chamomile tea now.

As opposed to the unassailable Logic that is the rest of it...