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ruveyn
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25 May 2011, 7:53 am

LKL wrote:
You've already demonstrated quite clearly that this demand on your part is a double standard.


No sir. A single standard. I prefer quality to sh*t. Climate Model is an exercise in sh*t (so-called) science. It ain't physics.* Anything that is not physics is either tiddly winks, stamp collecting or nonsense.

ruveyn

*physics includes chemistry and molecular biology as sub-sciences.



marshall
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25 May 2011, 12:07 pm

ruveyn wrote:
LKL wrote:
You've already demonstrated quite clearly that this demand on your part is a double standard.


No sir. A single standard. I prefer quality to sh*t. Climate Model is an exercise in sh*t (so-called) science. It ain't physics.* Anything that is not physics is either tiddly winks, stamp collecting or nonsense.

ruveyn

*physics includes chemistry and molecular biology as sub-sciences.


No sir. You are displaying irrational biased thinking while claiming to be above that sort of thing. :roll:



ruveyn
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25 May 2011, 12:19 pm

Here is a critique of the current climate models. You might find it interesting:

http://www.marshall.org/pdf/materials/225.pdf

ruveyn



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25 May 2011, 12:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Here is a critique of the current climate models. You might find it interesting:

http://www.marshall.org/pdf/materials/225.pdf

ruveyn


Blatant.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_C._Marshall_Institute


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ruveyn
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25 May 2011, 12:29 pm

dionysian wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Here is a critique of the current climate models. You might find it interesting:

http://www.marshall.org/pdf/materials/225.pdf

ruveyn


Blatant.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_C._Marshall_Institute


Ad hom.. Critique the content, not the sponsor.

ruveyn



ruveyn
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25 May 2011, 12:31 pm

dionysian
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25 May 2011, 12:43 pm

ruveyn wrote:
dionysian wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Here is a critique of the current climate models. You might find it interesting:

http://www.marshall.org/pdf/materials/225.pdf

ruveyn


Blatant.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_C._Marshall_Institute


Ad hom.. Critique the content, not the sponsor.

ruveyn

I guess it just so happens that the central think tank of the denialists is funded by the fossil fuel industry. Riiiiight...

The consensus of the scientific community runs contrary to the specious claims of the Marshall Institute. I don't have to refute it, to realize they aren't a credible source. They're just a PR arm of firms with a vested interest in denialism.


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aghogday
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25 May 2011, 12:47 pm

ruveyn wrote:
LKL wrote:
You've already demonstrated quite clearly that this demand on your part is a double standard.


No sir. A single standard. I prefer quality to sh*t. Climate Model is an exercise in sh*t (so-called) science. It ain't physics.* Anything that is not physics is either tiddly winks, stamp collecting or nonsense.

ruveyn

*physics includes chemistry and molecular biology as sub-sciences.


Anything other than tiddly winks, stamp collecting, or nonsense in the list below?

Acarology, the study of ticks and mites
Actinobiology, the study of the effects of radiation upon living organisms
Actinology, the study of the effect of light on chemicals
Aerobiology, a branch of biology that studies organic particles that are transported by the air
Aerology, the study of the atmosphere
Aetiology, the medical study of the causation of disease
Agrobiology, the study of plant nutrition and growth in relation to soil
Agrology, the branch of soil science dealing with the production of crops.
Agrostology, the study of grasses
Algology, the study of algae
Allergology, the study of the causes and treatment of allergies
Andrology, the study of male health
Anesthesiology, the study of anesthesia and anesthetics
Angiology, the study of the anatomy of blood and lymph vascular systems
Anthropology, the study of humans
Apiology, the study of bees
Arachnology, the study of spiders
Archaeology, the study of past cultures
Archaeozoology, the study of relationships between humans and animals over time
Areology, the study of Mars
Astacology, the study of crawfish
Astrobiology, the study of origin of life
Astrogeology, the study of geology of celestial bodies
Audiology, the study of hearing
Autecology, the study of the ecology of any individual species
Bacteriology, the study of bacteria
Bioecology, the study of interaction of life in the environment
Biology, the study of life
Bromatology, the study of food
Cardiology, the study of the heart
Cariology, the study of cells
Cetology, the study of cetaceans (e.g., whales, dolphins)
Climatology, the study of the climate
Coleopterology, the study of beetles
Conchology, the study of shells and of molluscs
Coniology, the study of dust in the atmosphere and its effects on living organisms
Craniology, the study of the characteristics of the skull
Criminology, the scientific study of crime
Cryology, the study of very low temperatures and related phenomena
Cynology, the study of dogs
Cytology, the study of cells
Cytomorphology, the study of the structure of cells
Cytopathology, the branch of pathology that studies diseases on the cellular level
Dendrochronology, the study of the age of trees and the records in their rings
Dendrology, the study of trees
Dermatology, the study of the skin
Dermatopathology, the field of dermatological anatomical pathology
Desmology, the study of ligaments
Diabetology, the study of diabetes mellitus
Dipterology, the study of flies
Ecohydrology, the study of interactions between organisms and the water cycle
Ecology, the study of the relationships between living organisms and their environment
Ecophysiology, the study of the interrelationship between an organism's physical functioning and its environment
Edaphology, a branch of soil science that studies the influence of soil on life
Electrophysiology, the study of the relationship between electric phenomena and bodily processes
Embryology, the study of embryos
Endocrinology, the study of internal secretory glands
Entomology, the study of insects
Enzymology, the study of enzymes
Epidemiology, the study of the origin and spread of diseases
Ethology, the study of animal behavior
Exobiology, the study of life in outer space
Exogeology, the study of geology of celestial bodies
Felinology, the study of cats
Fetology, the study of the fetus
Sometimes spelled foetology Formicology, the study of ants
Gastrology or Gastroenterology, the study of the stomach and intestines
Gemology, the study of gemstones
Geobiology, the study of the biosphere and its relations to the lithosphere and atmosphere
Geochronology, the study of the age of the Earth
Geology, the study of the Earth
Geomorphology, the study of present-day landforms
Gerontology, the study of old age
Glaciology, the study of glaciers
Gynecology, the study of medicine relating to women
Hematology, the study of blood
Heliology, the study of the sun
Helioseismology, the study of vibrations and oscillations in the sun
Helminthology, the study of parasitic worms
Hepatology, the study of the liver
Herbology, the study of the therapeutic use of plants
Herpetology, the study of reptiles and amphibians
Heteroptology, the study of true bugs
Hippology, study of horses
Histology, the study of living tissues
Histopathology, the study of the microscopic structure of diseased tissue
Hydrogeology, the study of underground water
Hydrology, the study of water
Ichnology, the study of fossil footprints, tracks, and burrows
Ichthyology, the study of fish
Immunology, the study of the immune system
Karyology, the study of karyotypes (a branch of cytology)
Kinesiology, the study of movement in relation to human anatomy
Kymatology, the study of waves or wave motions
Laryngology, the study of the larynx
Lepidopterology, the study of butterflies and moths
Limnology, the study of fresh water environments
Lithology, the study of rocks
Lymphology, the study of the lymph system and glands
Malacology, the study of mollusks
Mammalogy, the study of mammals
Meteorology, the study of weather
Methodology, the study of methods
Metrology, the study of measurement
Microbiology, the study of micro-organisms
Micrology, the science of preparing and handling microscopic objects
Mineralogy, the study of minerals
Mycology, the study of fungi
Myology, the scientific study of muscles
Myrmecology, the study of ants
Nanotechnology, the study of machines at the molecular level
Nanotribology, the study of friction on the molecular and atomic scale
Nematology, the study of nematodes
Neonatology, the study of newborn infants
Nephology, the study of clouds
Nephrology, the study of the kidneys
Neurology, the study of nerves
Neuropathology, the study of neural diseases
Neurophysiology, the study of the functions of the nervous system
Nosology, the study of disease classification
Oceanology, the study of oceans
Odonatology, the study of dragonflies and damselflies
Odontology, the study of the teeth
Oncology, the study of cancer
Oology, the study of eggs
Ophthalmology, the study of the eyes
Ornithology, the study of birds
Orology, the study of mountains and their mapping
Orthopterology, the study of grasshoppers and crickets
Osteology, the study of bones
Otolaryngology, the study of the ear and throat
Otology, the study of the ear
Otorhinolaryngology, the study of the ear, nose and throat
Paleoanthropology, the study of prehistoric people and human origins
Paleobiology, the study of prehistoric life
Paleobotany, the study of prehistoric metaphytes
Paleoclimatology, the study of prehistoric climates
Paleoecology, the study of prehistoric environments by analyzing fossils and rock strata
Paleontology, the study of fossils of ancient life
Paleophytology, the study of ancient multicellular plants
Paleozoology, the study of prehistoric metazoans
Palynology, the study of pollen
Parapsychology, the study of paranormal or psychic phenomenon that defy conventional scientific explanations
Parasitology, the study of parasites
Pathology, the study of illness
Petrology, the study of rocks and the conditions by which they form
Pharmacology, the study of drugs
Phenology, the study of periodic biological phenomena
Phlebology, a branch of medicine that deals with the venous system
Phonology, the study of vocal sounds
Phycology, the study of algae
Physiology, the study of the functions of living organisms
Phytology, the study of plants; botany
Phytopathology, the study of plant diseases
Phytosociology, the study of the ecology of plant communities
Planetology, the study of planets and solar systems
Planktology, the study of plankton
Pomology, the scientific study of fruits
Posology, the study of drug dosage
Primatology, the study of primates
Proctology, the medical study of the rectum, anus, colon and pelvic floor
Psychobiology, the study and psychology of organisms with regard to their functions and structures
Psychology, the study of mental processes in living creatures
Psychopathology, the study of mental illness or disorders
Psychopharmacology, the study of psychotropic or psychiatric drugs
Psychophysiology, the study of the physiological bases of psychological processes
Pulmonology, the specialty in medicine that deals with diseases of the lungs and the respiratory tract
Radiology, the study of rays, usually ionising radiation
Reflexology, originally the study of reflexes or of reflex responses
Rheology, the study of flow
Rheumatology, the study of rheumatic diseases
Rhinology, the study of the nose
Sarcology, a subsection of anatomy that studies the soft tissues
Scatology, the study of feces
Sedimentology, a branch of geology that studies sediments
Seismology, the study of earthquakes
Selenology, the study of the moon
Serology, the study of blood serum
Sexology, the study of sex
Sitiology, the study of diet
Sociobiology, the study of the effect of evolution on ethology
Sociology, the study of society
Somatology, study of human characteristics
Somnology, the study of sleep
Speleology, the study or exploration of caves
Stomatology, the study of the mouth
Symptomatology, the study of symptoms
Synecology, the study of the ecological interrelationships
Technology, the study of the practical arts
Thermology, the study of heat
Tocology, the study of childbirth
Topology, the mathematical study of closeness and connectedness
Toxicology, the study of poisons
Traumatology, the study of wounds and injuries.
Tribology, the study of friction and lubrication
Trichology, the study of hair and the scalp
Typology, the study of classification
Urology, the study of the urogenital tract.
Vaccinology, the study of vaccines
Virology, the study of viruses
Volcanology (or vulcanology), the study of volcanoes
Xenobiology, the study of non-terrestrial life
Xylology, the study of wood
Zooarchaeology, the study and analysis of animal remains at archaeological sites to reconstruct relationships between people, animals, and their environment
Zoology, the study of animals
Zoopathology, the study of animal diseases
Zoopsychology, the study of mental processes in animals
Zymology, the study of fermentation



aghogday
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25 May 2011, 1:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:


Excerpt from Link:

Quote:
Executive Summary
The goal of simulating the Earth’s climate with mathematical models, using the most powerful computers available, is valid scientifically and fully consistent with the approaches being taken in many other fields of science dealing with very complex systems. These climate simulations provide the frame within which improved understanding of climate-relevant processes and improved observations are naturally merged into coherent projections of future climate change.


Like all science, it isn't perfect and all knowing, but it is getting better all the time. The idea that climatology is tiddly winks, stamp collecting, or nonsense, is not logical.

For example, models that predict Hurricanes, while not perfect, have become much better at predicting landfall, and giving people the opportunity to protect life and property. One can't place a value on the benefit climatology has had in it's ability to help people protect their life and property.

It would be non-sense, not to use a science, like climatology, to assess potential problems in the future, because it is not perfect, in it's ability to predict climate change. The only other option is to close one's eyes and hope for the best, that's not a logical way to solve potential problems.



ruveyn
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25 May 2011, 1:44 pm

aghogday wrote:

It would be non-sense, not to use a science, like climatology, to assess potential problems in the future, because it is not perfect, in it's ability to predict climate change. The only other option is to close one's eyes and hope for the best, that's not a logical way to solve potential problems.


Are these far from perfect predictors sufficient to make us take an Oath of Poverty?

ruveyn



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25 May 2011, 2:06 pm

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Areology, the study of Mars


Vigilans' dream job...


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aghogday
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25 May 2011, 2:14 pm

ruveyn wrote:
aghogday wrote:

It would be non-sense, not to use a science, like climatology, to assess potential problems in the future, because it is not perfect, in it's ability to predict climate change. The only other option is to close one's eyes and hope for the best, that's not a logical way to solve potential problems.


Are these far from perfect predictors sufficient to make us take an Oath of Poverty?

ruveyn


My argument is that Climatology is a valid Science, as indicated in your reference. It is not the fault of climatology, if people use the results in what we see as a reaction that is not necessary, per our assessment of the results. Different sciences, like Politics, and economics, come in to play that may attempt to explain some of those reactions.

I think a more valid argument would be look what those politicians are doing as a result of climatology, not that the science is sh**.

The reactions could vary from reducing emissions, to outlawing cars, but that is a result of the assessment of the potential problem with climate, that is influenced by politics, economics, and many other factors, not directly related to climatology.

Climatology is just a source of information, that is a reflection of the science as it stands today.

Whether or not we take an oath of poverty, because of a concern of climate will be determined almost entirely by politics, just as our decision at this point in time has been to stick with Oil based energy sources and to be dependent on foreign energy sources. We can feel much more comfortable with climatology, than we can with what motivates public policy.

Even, if there were no global warming concerns, the impact of emissions on pollution and human health, is concern enough to influence public policy. At least they had enough sense to get the lead out of the emissions.

We won't be taking an oath of poverty in the US over climate change, unless politics allow it; politicians do want to keep their jobs. I don't see that as a significant concern, regarding policy in the US. Could be different in other countries though.



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25 May 2011, 2:20 pm

ruveyn wrote:
aghogday wrote:

It would be non-sense, not to use a science, like climatology, to assess potential problems in the future, because it is not perfect, in it's ability to predict climate change. The only other option is to close one's eyes and hope for the best, that's not a logical way to solve potential problems.


Are these far from perfect predictors sufficient to make us take an Oath of Poverty?

ruveyn


why do you need fossil fuels?
there are plenty of greener, better alternatives
especially once the industry has developed a bit more.

besides global warming is a fact, only the cause is still a mystery.
even if humans are not a primary cause it doesnt mean we should compound the issue simply for some fast cash.


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25 May 2011, 3:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:
aghogday wrote:

It would be non-sense, not to use a science, like climatology, to assess potential problems in the future, because it is not perfect, in it's ability to predict climate change. The only other option is to close one's eyes and hope for the best, that's not a logical way to solve potential problems.


Are these far from perfect predictors sufficient to make us take an Oath of Poverty?

ruveyn

You are arguing from unpleasant consequences, like a creationist who won't accept evolution because they fear a lack of morals if people are not bible literalists.



aghogday
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25 May 2011, 3:33 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Quote:
Areology, the study of Mars


Vigilans' dream job...


When I first saw that, I thought it had something to do with human anatomy rather than Mars, but I'm sure the study of Mars would be a dream job for some. :wink:



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